Foundering...

[Acyllius]

Hello,

I haven't been on these forums in a while and it is more of a whim doing so since I had forgotten about it until I received a birthday reminder today. However, I am struggling.

I am currently not attending church, nor is my family. My wife and I met and we were both very much centered in our faith. I was raised Church of Christ as was she. I came to faith (in the mainstream sense) through a baptist church. We attempted to attend Church of Christ churches for a while and then tried baptist and both have left one or the other of us kinda cold. I have grown to find the CoC overly conservative to the point of legalism in most cases and in those where they aren't, they seem to be trying to copy everything the baptists do except how they baptize. My wife however still feels comfortable with the CoC.

We abandoned baptist after mutual agreement that some of the key doctrinal issues are just not good. However, this brings me to why I am posting on this portion of the forum. I discovered Lutheranism through Rev. Jonathan Fisk with Worldview Everlasting. After watching almost every single video I find that I agree with the vast majority of what he says and those I don't I am simply not understanding or not sure yet. I am very interested in attending an LCMS church and possibly joining. However, my wife is not. She does not like Rev. Fisk's videos much as she are too disjointed for her and I can't seem to explain what I have learned very well. Additionally, we tried to attend an LCMS church in my town (the only one), and she strongly disliked it. Since then she has definitively said, she will not be Lutheran.

I am at a complete loss. I am a new(ish) father and my daughter has only been to church 3 times in her 17 months of life and I know in my heart I am failing both my wife and my daughter in properly guiding them in the faith, but I don't know what to do anymore. All of my and her family do not approve of Lutheranism and I am alone with no one to talk to and feeling hopeless. I don't even know if I want to be a Lutheran for sure, but nothing else makes sense anymore. Sometimes it feels a curse that I watched his videos. God help me, but I have no idea what to do.

 

[Moses Medina]

Hello! Pastor Fisks videos are indeed very good and helped me in mytransition from pentecostal to Lutheran as well. I'm very sorry to hear your situation. Please know that I am praying for you. If you message me your city and state I can give you the list of lcms churches in your area. Also the website is

Home - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

What exactly does your wife not like about the Lutheran church? Keep in mind that you can't force her but you can pray for her, and in patience answer her questions. Speaking of which I do recommend you set up a meeting with a pastor and tell these very things to him including your own concerns. While you are at it ask for a copy of the small catechism.

This book was intendes for fathers to teach their children the faith but is awesome for everyone of course. I really hoped I helped. If you have and questions please ask away. The peace of Christ be with you!

Remember, in patience and in love.

 

[Moses Medina]

Hello! Pastor Fisks videos are indeed very good and helped me in mytransition from pentecostal to Lutheran as well. I'm very sorry to hear your situation. Please know that I am praying for you. If you message me your city and state I can give you the list of lcms churches in your area. Also the website is

Home - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

What exactly does your wife not like about the Lutheran church? Keep in mind that you can't force her but you can pray for her, and in patience answer her questions. Speaking of which I do recommend you set up a meeting with a pastor and tell these very things to him including your own concerns. While you are at it ask for a copy of the small catechism.

This book was intendes for fathers to teach their children the faith but is awesome for everyone of course. I really hoped I helped. If you have and questions please ask away. The peace of Christ be with you!

Remember, in patience and in love.

 

[filosofer]

I would advise that while Pastor Fisk has some good things, his style is not appropriate for everyone. My wife won’t watch them, she is lifelong Lutheran, but the style turns her off.

I began a study in the congregation this fall that deals with the issues of what we believe and how we express that. You might find it interesting and helpful.

Central teaching of the Bible

Salvation Accomplished and Salvation Delivered

Law-Gospel and Active and Passive Righteousness

Blessings as you study and explore.

 

[filosofer]

I would be happy answer questions you or your wife would have on any of these topics.

Also, my personal blog has many topics of interest (including worship, depression, etc.)

Believe, Teach, and Confess

Tenderhearted in Turmoil

Missing persons: Too close to home

Real World Meets Law and Gospel

 

[Acyllius]

Well, my wife finds the preaching to be staid and boring like he has said the same sermon every year for the last 3 decades. I suppose this is entirely possible if I understand how the lectionary works. The Order of Worship is off putting as well as reading from the book and knowing when to stand and sticking out like a sore thumb. These are to be expected I suppose, but she also wants to be able to put our daughter in the nursery as it makes her unable to focus on the service at all. The church we attended had no nursery or childcare classes at all. Front what I understand this is a common thing in Lutheran churches as they only want the pastor doing the teaching.

I misspoke before, there is a second LCMS church in my city but I have heard it is more liberal and any time that word is used it makes me nervous. I have never heard any positive application of that word except when putting it before the phrase "dowsing of chocolate." Additionally, that church has three services, but only the first is traditional. The second and third basicly try to mimic the worship music the mainstream church uses and that is off-putting and the first service is just too early for my my entire family to get up and be there on time.

As far as her main issues, I assume they are the typical ones. Infant baptism, the presence of Christ in communion, the efficacy of baptism, etc. I am still unsure about these things as well to be honest but I have listened and read extensively on all these topics from multiple Lutheran sources. I finally gave up to be honest.

I do have a Book of Concord and try to read it occationally. I even got a Treasury of Daily Prayer for really cheap by chance. However, to be honest, as much as my heart desires it, I am terrible at the discipline to study and read and try. I really struggle with apathy and angry so it is easy to get discouraged or bitter about things.

 

[filosofer]

Well, my wife finds the preaching to be staid and boring like he has said the same sermon every year for the last 3 decades. I suppose this is entirely possible if I understand how the lectionary works.

Well, then the pastor is failing if that is true. The lectionary sounds like the one year series. There is a three year series and allows 9 years without preaching on the same text. But in either case, it not a device for laziness on preaching. I have preached several times through and find that I cannot just pull a sermon out of the file and preach it a second time. Different people, different setting, and I am in a different spot. And the goal is to preach to the people who are present, not just present a rehashed sermon.

The Order of Worship is off putting as well as reading from the book and knowing when to stand and sticking out like a sore thumb. These are to be expected I suppose, but she also wants to be able to put our daughter in the nursery as it makes her unable to focus on the service at all. The church we attended had no nursery or childcare classes at all. Front what I understand this is a common thing in Lutheran churches as they only want the pastor doing the teaching.

We have a nursery (but not staffed), in which the parent can sit or stand with the child and see and hear the service. I encourage parents to keep the children in worship because it is family learning and growing time. The bible study hour provides an environment for indepth study and then there can be classes for all ages.

I misspoke before, there is a second LCMS church in my city but I have heard it is more liberal and any time that word is used it makes me nervous. I have never heard any positive application of that word except when putting it before the phrase "dowsing of chocolate." Additionally, that church has three services, but only the first is traditional. The second and third basicly try to mimic the worship music the mainstream church uses and that is off-putting and the first service is just too early for my my entire family to get up and be there on time.

You might want to check it out anyway. That “liberal” label may be given by those who think anything other than one specific order of service and anything other than the one year lectionary is liberal. That may not be the case in the congregation. I have worshiped in and preached in several congregations where alternate styles of music are used, but the congregation is solidly Lutheran. And I have pastored congregations in those situations.

As far as her main issues, I assume they are the typical ones. Infant baptism, the presence of Christ in communion, the efficacy of baptism, etc. I am still unsure about these things as well to be honest but I have listened and read extensively on all these topics from multiple Lutheran sources. I finally gave up to be honest.

You might find those first three links I provided helpful for those issues.

I do have a Book of Concord and try to read it occationally. I even got a Treasury of Daily Prayer for really cheap by chance. However, to be honest, as much as my heart desires it, I am terrible at the discipline to study and read and try. I really struggle with apathy and angry so it is easy to get discouraged or bitter about things.

Sometimes it can be hard to search and study alone. May I suggest that you concentrate on reading the Bible (TDP works, but may be cumbersome)? This is a time of learning and growing for you. Reading the Bible is critical at this stage (and every stage). Is your wife open to reading the Bible with you? I would suggest starting reading these:

Ephesians
1 John
Philippians
Luke
Galatians
Acts
Matthew

You can read a couple paragraphs or an entire chapter and talk about it. My wife and I have been doing that for many years. Our biggest challenge is schedule: she is an early to be person and I am later to bed. We have found that reading together right before she is turning in for the night works best.

Be patient with yourself and her.

And for your daughter there are some good Bible story books (Egemeier’s Bible Story Book is a classic. When we adopted our boys from Korea they couldn’t understand English. But they looked at the pictures as we read. Soon they could tell if we missed a sentence... they loved it and the younger one (now 41) still remembers those times of reading.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

You might find the program, Issues, etc. helpful to get the Lutheran and particularly the LCMS view of things. Although I myself am not quite conservative enough for the LCMS, there are a lot of things I like about it. I know what it is like to not be at home in a church. I left a more liberal form of Lutheranism, then found that generic American Evangelicanism didn't work for me. I ended up in a conservative Anglican church but like I said there are many things I appreciate about the LCMS.

Go to the "Listen" link and from there the "On-Demand Archives" link to listen to or download a program. You can browse or search for various topics.
- Issues, Etc.

 

[Acyllius]

We have a nursery (but not staffed), in which the parent can sit or stand with the child and see and hear the service. I encourage parents to keep the children in worship because it is family learning and growing time. The bible study hour provides an environment for indepth study and then there can be classes for all ages.

Unfortunately, even this situation wouldn't help. My wife love my daughter and is a fantastic mother, but she wants to hear and learn from the sermon and my daughter being present at this age just completely nullifies that ability for her to listen and learn. We need a place for my daughter to play while the service is going on as she is incredibly active and disruptive during church or to keep her calm my wife or I have to pay constant attention or take her out of the room completely.

Sometimes it can be hard to search and study alone. May I suggest that you concentrate on reading the Bible (TDP works, but may be cumbersome)? This is a time of learning and growing for you. Reading the Bible is critical at this stage (and every stage). Is your wife open to reading the Bible with you? I would suggest starting reading these:

Ephesians
1 John
Philippians
Luke
Galatians
Acts
Matthew

You can read a couple paragraphs or an entire chapter and talk about it. My wife and I have been doing that for many years. Our biggest challenge is schedule: she is an early to be person and I am later to bed. We have found that reading together right before she is turning in for the night works best.

We do not read the bible together. We have tried before and it never goes well. Neither one of us can think of much to say and if we ever disagree we never have anything to back up our positions with so we just come away feeling like we had a disagreement over our faith and that just makes things worse.

Be patient with yourself and her.

I am trying but I don't see much hope. I mentioned today that I wanted to try that "liberal" Lutheran church and she said she doesn't see the point as she reiterated to me she "is not becoming Lutheran." She seems quite firmly against it. Yet I do not want to go to Church of Christ churches anymore. Every time I go I hear questionable stuff that makes me uncomfortable and I don't want my daughter learning that stuff. Yet when I bring up my issues, my wife gets upset because she says every time I go to a Church of Christ I find something wrong and she is tired of my complaining about it.

You might find the program, Issues, etc. helpful

I appreciate the suggestion. I didn't mention it but I do sometimes listen to that program.

 

[Studeclunker]

If you are interested in the LCMS, may I recommend Dr. Rod Rosenbladt? You might find what he has to say helpful. He's somewhat less... dramatic than Fisk and at least safely entertaining as well. Who knows but that your wife might like his style better.

Rod Rosenbladt Sermons - SermonAudio.com