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Originally posted by kern
Please do not write all of your responses in a QUOTE box. That means responders have to copy and paste your text into their reply.
Kern,
When you click on the quote button, my text will be pasted into your reply. Try it. I discovered that this is the easier way to do it.
Catholics would agree with you entirely that the Apostolic Tradition does not take precedence over the Bible. It complements it, not replaces or supercedes.
Then your sttement that the knife cuts BOTH ways is WRONG because any APOSTOLIC TRADITION that does NOT conform with what the Bible teaches does NOT take precedence over the Bible and therefore, MUST be thrown away.
And Paul was talking about the Old Testament. Some of the NT books weren't even written yet when 2 Timothy was written.
-Chris
"ALL SCRIPTURE" encompasses the past, the present and the future. Everything in the NT is considered the WORD of God unless you think that, for the sake of APOSTOLIC TRADITION, some parts of the NT are FALSE if they do NOT conform with what you believe in.
Ed
Originally posted by Wolseley
So, now you're equating Catholicism with the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Christian Scientists, eh, ed?
Can you give me any assurances that the Iglesia Ni Cristo isn't a fringe cult like the ones you named?
Wolseley,
The Iglesia Ni Cristo is the ONLY church in these last days that has the TESTIMONY of Jesus which is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
The re-emergence of the TRUE church of Christ in the FAR EAST at a time called "ends of the earth" is the FULFILLMENT of PROPHECIES recorded in the Holy Bible.
Also, the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the ONLY church that teaches doctrines that come from God.
Everyone is invited to attend the Bible Studies and Worship Services of the INC in order to acquire first-hand information about the INC that might aid them in making intelligent decisions regarding their salvation.
Ed
Well, that's fine, ed. I'm glad it works for you and that you have found a fellowship where you feel comfortable.The Iglesia Ni Cristo is the ONLY church in these last days that has the TESTIMONY of Jesus which is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
The re-emergence of the TRUE church of Christ in the FAR EAST at a time called "ends of the earth" is the FULFILLMENT of PROPHECIES recorded in the Holy Bible.
Also, the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the ONLY church that teaches doctrines that come from God.
Originally posted by Wolseley
Well, that's fine, ed. I'm glad it works for you and that you have found a fellowship where you feel comfortable.
You will, of course, indulge me if I don't happen to agree. I guess I'll just have to go on being deceived by all those false doctrines that don't come from God.
Wolseley,
I bet NOBODY has taught you that it was the church that Christ built (Matt. 16:18) that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood (Acts 20:28).
And NOBODY has taught you that Christ LOVED his church so much that he GAVE himself FOR it (Eph. 5:25).
And NOBODY has taught you that Christ is the SAVIOR of the church, HIS body (Eph. 5:23).
My friend, that church is the Iglesia Ni Cristo where I am a MEMBER in particular (Rom. 12:4-5).
The Iglesia Ni Cristo is NOT only for fellowship my friend. The gates of Hades [color=red[]will NOT prevail against her. That's why Jesus said that anyone who ENTERS in by him will be saved (John 10:9).
I wish you could say that for your church, but you woudn't because you CAN'T!
Ed[/color]
Originally posted by Wolseley
Oh, but I can, and I do, ed. Everything you just said is absolutely correct, and perfectly applicable to the One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, headquartered in Rome, and led by the Pope.
And, by broader extension, to the entire Christian Faith as well. Including the Iglesia Ni Cristo.
Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius, et Spiritus Sanctus,
---Wols.
Wolseley,
The church is Christ's BODY of which Christ is the HEAD (Col. 1:18). As such, the church is SUBJECT to Christ (Eph. 5:24).
Do you know what this means? It means that the church OBEYS Christ's teachings and ABIDES in his every word.
Christ says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). Does your church ABIDE in these teachings of Christ?
Is the FATHER your church's ONLY true God? Do you expect Christ to save a church that does NOT subject herself to him? Doesn't that sound like WISHFUL thinking to you my friend?
Ed
Originally posted by edpobre
Originally posted by Catchup
Fighting over which Church holds the keys to Salvation?Sometimes I wonder if we know the same Jesus? Sometimes I wonder if we read the same Bible? Even the smallest of child knows it is not a "Church" that saves. That is like saying... it is the hammer that builds the house.
LOVE
Originally posted by edpobre
Originally posted by seebs
When a local pastor came by to witness to us recently, he made it totally clear that going to his church wouldn't get anyone to heaven, he just wanted people to know about Christ.
Originally posted by Catchup
Fighting over which Church holds the keys to Salvation?Sometimes I wonder if we know the same Jesus? Sometimes I wonder if we read the same Bible? Even the smallest of child knows it is not a "Church" that saves. That is like saying... it is the hammer that builds the house.
LOVE
Originally posted by edpobre
Seebs,
Did the Pastor ASSUME that people in your church did NOT yet know about Christ and that's why he wanted you to go to his church?
How did the Pastor of your church feel about this? Does your Pastor go around churches telling the same story?
Ed
However, NOT every church out there is the church that Christ will save. The CHURCH that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood is identified in the Bible as the Church of Christ (Rom. 16:16) or more specifically, the Iglesia Ni Cristo (INC) which was prophesied in the Bible to re-emerge at a specific place (far east) and time (ends of the earth) (Is. 43:5-6). And they will be called by the name of God (Is. 43:7). That name is the name that God GAVE Jesus (John 17:11 TEV) That name is CHRIST or CRISTO (Acts 2:36; Rom. 16:16).
That's the reason why we strive to make this TRUTH known so that more souls will be saved on judgment day.
Even the smallest of child knows it is not a "Church" that saves. That is like saying... it is the hammer that builds the house.
If a physical Church was the important factor in salvation then Jesus, being a carpenter , would have set his Apostles to work... building the Church. He would have erected a sign with the name of this Church . Then there would have been no question. Whose Church is the only Church that can save!Who says the church of Christ is a building? When Jesus said, "...I will build MY church..." (Matt. 16:18), did he go about and constructed a building called "church?" No my friend. He started GATHERING people around him and MADE them his DISCIPLES through his preaching the good news of salvation.
The church is composed of people who BELIEVE in Jesus and ABIDE in his words (Acts 8:31). They are his DISCIPLES who were later called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26).[/color][/b]
You wrote:This is not what happened...instead the Apostles went out and spread the gospel. The "Good News"...So that who ever heard and received the message would be saved.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Hearing and receiving the message are NOT enough for one to be saved.
Christ is the SAVIOR of the church (Eph. 5:23) Christ LOVED the church so much that he GAVE his life for it (Eph. 5:25). Redemption through the blood of Christ and forgiveness of sins can be found only INSIDE the church which Christ built because that is HIS church which he PURCHASED with his own blood (Acts 20:28). The name of that church is CHURCH OF CHRIST and members of the church were called "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16).
You wrote:The true Church is the spiritual embodiment of all Christians.
The belief that the true church is the SPIRITUAL embodiment of ALL Christians is FALSE. As I said earlier, the true church of Christ is COMPOSED of INDIVIDUAL members (Rom. 12:4-5) who believe in Jesus and ABIDE in his teachings.
They all BELONG to the SAME body with ONE spirit, ONE hope, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God, the FATHER and ONE Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph. 4:4-6).
Acts 20:17 teaches that "from Miletus, Paul SENT to Ephesus and CALLED for the elders of the CHURCH. Paul was able to call the elders because all the churches that were spread over the Gentile regions BELONGED to the SAME church without any DENOMINATION. This would NOT have been possible if he church were a spiritual church as preached by most churches today.
You wrote:John 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.
True worshippers are found only in the true church of Christ.
The FATHER seeks true worshippers to worship Him in spirit and TRUTH. God is a spirit and HIS worshippers MUST worship in spirit and TRUTH. Members of the TRUE church of Christ or Iglesia Ni Cristo WORSHIP the FATHER alone as the God who seeks TRUE worshippers to WORSHIP Him in spirit and truth.
Ed
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