Found this article, what do you think?

[ChaliceThunder]

Agreed but they were chosen to begin my study because they are indeed the largest predominantly African American Church in the country. I have found that those that disagree are usually very small bodies. I think it is safe to say that the majority of Christian African Americans do indeed oppose the analogy drawn between homosexual rights activists and themselves.

I'm not so sure you can actually claim that with real facts behind you - I doubt every member thinks exactly the same as the leadership...but I won't argue it any further. However, I WOULD argue that even if it is a majority, it would still only be their opinion. Most of us see plenty of parallels to the civil rights movement of the 60s, even though it's not completely parallel.

 

[AdamClarke]

I'm not so sure you can actually claim that with real facts behind you - I doubt every member thinks exactly the same as the leadership...but I won't argue it any further. However, I WOULD argue that even if it is a majority, it would still only be their opinion. Most of us see plenty of parallels to the civil rights movement of the 60s, even though it's not completely parallel.

You seem to have the opinion that I came into this with an agenda. I did not, nor do I have a set in concrete opinion. If I did why would I be looking at and asking for the opinions of others.

I agree that the opinions of the leaders of this denomination may not represent the entirety of the constituency they represent. The same however can be said of the NAACP and others that have been quoted here. So far every predominantly African American Church body I have found has a similar stance.

If you can show me something different I would be happy to read it but so far it seems that at least a majority of African American Christians disagree with the comparison. That doesn't mean they are right, it doesn't mean they are wrong, but it is certainly a valid voice and an opinion worth hearing.

So far I have seen little offered other than rhetoric that can explain this. Posting things such as "fear" and "scapegoating" are rhetorical and at best is speculation.

You seem like an intelligent and loving Christian man from the posts of yours that I have read. Is it possible you may want to help me understand this issue better or can I count on one more dismissive post from one more person who cannot admit that there is a disconnect here somewhere?

 

[AdamClarke]

“If people want to get married, I don’t care if they’re the same sex. “Not all civil rights are racial.” - Charles Cobb - leader of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in Mississippi from 1962 to 1967. He is also a founding member of the National Association of Black Journalists.

Wait – let me guess, he’s out of touch.

Can you provide a positional statement from a predominantly African American Christian Church that supports the comparison? If so I would appreciate reading them. If not, while your quotes are interesting they only represent the individuals making them.

By the way I want to make this clear especially due to your confrontational style of posting. I don't necessarily oppose homosexual marriage. I am very interested however in why it seems that the majority of African American Christians deny the comparison with homosexual marriage rights.

 

[LightHorseman]

Can you provide a positional statement from a predominantly African American Christian Church that supports the comparison? If so I would appreciate reading them. If not, while your quotes are interesting they only represent the individuals making them.

By the way I want to make this clear especially due to your confrontational style of posting. I don't necessarily oppose homosexual marriage. I am very interested however in why it seems that the majority of African American Christians deny the comparison with homosexual marriage rights.

Predominantly African-American Churches are NOT the only African-American bodies with a right to voice a perfectly valid opinion on this issue.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Can you provide a positional statement from a predominantly African American Christian Church that supports the comparison? If so I would appreciate reading them. If not, while your quotes are interesting they only represent the individuals making them.

By the way I want to make this clear especially due to your confrontational style of posting. I don't necessarily oppose homosexual marriage. I am very interested however in why it seems that the majority of African American Christians deny the comparison with homosexual marriage rights.

Because most African American Christians believe two things (in interest, of course they believe more). First off, they believe they deserve their rights. And really, if anyone deserves rights, they do as well. Can we fault them that they should have the right to live, to vote, ect.

They also hold that homosexuality is a sin, that it is evil, ect.

Of course they would be against being compared against something which is evil, even if the comparison is valid. Let me find a child molester who also did something good (maybe he later felt really bad about what he had done, and founded an agency to stop those like himself). Most people would be inherently defensive when a comparison between them and the child molester, even if we are comparing the good things.

Another way of looking at it is to see how homosexuals will often deny their arguments do not extent to other groups. Of course, it doesn't extend to some other groups because of logical reasons, but other groups it does logically extend to with little difficulty except two things. They think the other group is wrong and they don't want to be compared.

 

[AdamClarke]

Predominantly African-American Churches are NOT the only African-American bodies with a right to voice a perfectly valid opinion on this issue.

I never claimed that they were, but it is the African American Christian opinion that I was researching.

 

[Garyzenuf]

I never claimed that they were, but it is the African American Christian opinion that I was researching.

I think this is the reason they are against SS mariage, the same reason many white Christians are oppossed to it.

*

 

[AdamClarke]

I think this is the reason they are against SS mariage, the same reason many white Christians are oppossed to it.

*

Very probable. But the numbers surprised me. On many boards including this one I have read several statements about how the majority of African Americans support homosexual rights activists. At the least this is not true of African American Christians. I have been trying to discover numbers for African Americans in general but so far I have not found a decent reference.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

You seem to have the opinion that I came into this with an agenda. I did not, nor do I have a set in concrete opinion. If I did why would I be looking at and asking for the opinions of others.

I agree that the opinions of the leaders of this denomination may not represent the entirety of the constituency they represent. The same however can be said of the NAACP and others that have been quoted here. So far every predominantly African American Church body I have found has a similar stance.

If you can show me something different I would be happy to read it but so far it seems that at least a majority of African American Christians disagree with the comparison. That doesn't mean they are right, it doesn't mean they are wrong, but it is certainly a valid voice and an opinion worth hearing.

So far I have seen little offered other than rhetoric that can explain this. Posting things such as "fear" and "scapegoating" are rhetorical and at best is speculation.

You seem like an intelligent and loving Christian man from the posts of yours that I have read. Is it possible you may want to help me understand this issue better or can I count on one more dismissive post from one more person who cannot admit that there is a disconnect here somewhere?

If I have come off in an abrasive or dismissive fashion, I apologize. I am used to getting this a lot, and so sometimes it's an automatic reaction. If your really do want to understand more, I would be more than willing to offer my 2 cents, in hopes that my own experience might add to the knowledge bank.

ETA: When I lived in Seattle, I had a number of African American friends - every single one of whom were completely supportive of my relationship with the same man of 24 years. Now that I have moved to Chicago, I have even more African American friends...and again, there is not ONE...NOT ONE among them who finds our relationship in any way objectionable. SO I am going by personal experience.

 

[brightmorningstar]

I tend to agree with the linked article in the OP

 

[AdamClarke]

If I have come off in an abrasive or dismissive fashion, I apologize. I am used to getting this a lot, and so sometimes it's an automatic reaction. If your really do want to understand more, I would be more than willing to offer my 2 cents, in hopes that my own experience might add to the knowledge bank.

ETA: When I lived in Seattle, I had a number of African American friends - every single one of whom were completely supportive of my relationship with the same man of 24 years. Now that I have moved to Chicago, I have even more African American friends...and again, there is not ONE...NOT ONE among them who finds our relationship in any way objectionable. SO I am going by personal experience.

I appreciate your offer and I hope that we can continue the discussion. I assume that your personal experience is affected much the same way mine is. You are more likely to develop friendships with persons who are likely to think much the same way you do. This is natural and is Sociology/Psychology in action. My friends are fairly conservative and so am I. That is not to say I do not have more liberal friends but they are not the majority. I would suspect that this is probably the same for you. I suspect most of your friends think much the same way you do and that you probably have a few friends who do not.

This is actually beneficial, I am often challenged by my more liberal friends as they are by me.

So how and where do we start? My primary pursuit at this point is to examine how what some broadly term as homosexual rights may or may not be human rights that should be protected by the Constitution. I understand the basic issue here is mostly the marriage issue. I recognize that the SCOTUS has ruled in the Loving case that marriage is a human right. However even in that decision they recognized that marriage as an institute has existed for millennia relatively unchanged in its participants. They did not in that case rule against the traditional participants in marriage in that even though mixed marriages were illegal in some states in the U.S. they had been occurring thoughout human history. (If my understanding of this is errant please correct me) I am not sure I agree that the "right" to marry same sex persons is a human right as our government has traditionally recognized human rights. That is one issue I am working on.

I realize of course that there are other issues involved too. Jobs, educational opportunities, other social opportunities etc are also important if not as widely discussed issues.

I welcome your responses, however you may feel it best to start.