Foster Children

[chipmunk]

Welcome to life. It's not fair. No, I don't like the way handouts are given for schooling either. My suggestion if you can't get aid or enough aid when you apply? Wait until your 25.

Filing independent on your taxes, doesn't mean your independent on the FAFSA. Trust me I am all to familiar with this little glitchy problem that ticks me off more than anything. Having to list parents that aren't helping me is the reason I'm not in school. I guess I could rush off and get married or just skip that and get pregnant. I really wish I had a formal letter of my parents disowning me and then I could get out of it.

Requirements for filing independent:

For the 2005-2006 academic year, you're considered an independent student ONLY IF at least one of the following criteria applies to you:

You were born before January 1, 1982.

• You will be enrolled in a master's or doctorate program (beyond a bachelor's degree) at the beginning of the 2005-2006 school year.
• You're married as of the day you apply (or you're separated but not divorced).
• You have children who receive more than half their support from you.
• You have dependents (other than your children or spouse) who live with you and who receive more than half their support from you at the time you apply and through June 30, 2006.
• Both your parents are deceased, or you are (or were until age 18) a ward or dependent of the court.
• You're a veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces. (A "veteran" includes students who attended a U.S. service academy and who were released under a condition other than dishonorable. For more detail on who is considered a veteran, see the explanatory notes on the FAFSA.)

If none of these criteria applies to you, you're considered dependent.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/student_guide/2005-2006/english/general-dependency.htm

 

[hernyaccent]

Welcome to life. It's not fair. No, I don't like the way handouts are given for schooling either. My suggestion if you can't get aid or enough aid when you apply? Wait until your 25.

Filing independent on your taxes, doesn't mean your independent on the FAFSA. Trust me I am all to familiar with this little glitchy problem that ticks me off more than anything. Having to list parents that aren't helping me is the reason I'm not in school. I guess I could rush off and get married or just skip that and get pregnant. I really wish I had a formal letter of my parents disowning me and then I could get out of it.

Requirements for filing independent:

I filed an independant fasfa with out meeting any of those requirements. The school can file you as independant if you have the proper paper work stating you support yourself.

 

[chipmunk]

I filed an independant fasfa with out meeting any of those requirements. The school can file you as independant if you have the proper paper work stating you support yourself.

I had this long reply, but it became this huge pity story. I sounded whiny. I'm happy for you. Seriously, it's nice to know some people can have things work out for them.

The colleges I have sought application to, did not give me the option of waiving my status on the form. I asked them all (4 colleges in total). The most they said they could do was give me a form to explain my extenuating circumstances. I guess the other kids had better explanations. I suppose they did deserve the money more than me.

 

[Mskedi]

I also grew up poor, but I see this in a different light than you (the OP) do.

If there's something in the works that will help people go to college, even if I don't belong to that group, then I am happy for them. Period.

I had to work more than full time and often hold jobs in addition to my full-time job while going to college full-time because we didn't have any money, and the scholarships and grants I did get didn't even begin to cover the costs of my education.

But education was important to me, and I got it. For the last year I had to take out a loan that I only finally paid off this year. Now that I'm out of school debt, I'm ready to jump back in to get my Masters degree.

Do I wish there had been more financial aid available to me? Absolutely. Am I bitter about those people to whom the financial aid was available? Absolutely not.

 

[Mskedi]

Oh, and I wanted to add...

I don't think parents are supposed to save for their child's education. I think it's nice if they can, but it shouldn't be expected. My parents could hardly feed and house us, and they made it clear that they wanted us to go to college, but that we were on our own financially to cover it. That's why we all started working and saving in high school.

That certainly doesn't mean it's wrong to pay for your child's college -- that's awesome -- but I don't think anyone can complain if their parents didn't do the saving for them.

 

[Bananafish]

Just a general comment to the entire thread:

In most cases, if they can, parents save and pay for their children's education (as much as they can).

Children who are wards of the state shouldn't be denied a chance to go to college. Essentially, the state is this child's parent, and should give him or her a chance to get an education.

To the OP: I'm from Maine too!

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

I don't approve of the government giving handouts, but I'm happy when someone like your friend benefits from the system. Would you be happier if she didn't get any help either? Maybe it's a 'misery loves company' situation

I think that the government should help out the most needy rather than special groups. That would really help people. Those who really need help would get it, and those who don't wouldn't be wasting tax dollars and so taxes could be lowered.

Yes I believe it is right. The aim of any social program is not to assist all poor people, it is there to help reverse common downward trends.

I don't see how giving aid to special groups is anything good. If you just help those who need it most on an individual basis then those who need the help would still get it, and those who don't wouldn't.

Then I'd ask is your situation an exception or the norm? Cause if its an exception, do you really want your government dealing in those affairs?

Why should the government take money from one person and give to another unless that person is exceptionally unfortunate? I'm not well off - my friend is better off, government intervention aside. The only thing she lacks is her natural born parents which, trust me, is overrated. I've lived half my life with my father and the other half with my step-father. I would pick my step-father over my father in a heartbeat.

Yes, I'm sorry, but you're being selfish. The "how come she gets ______ and I don't?" is a selfish sentiment, especially since you're not taking into account why she is getting a break. Your parents had 18 years to save for your education. Her new parents will have 5 years.

You're making a poor comparison. "How come she gets _____ and I don't?" is alot different than "how come I have to pay for her ______ and mine?"

And I'm sorry, I've heard this a few times, but I consider this a truly igorant statement, but please don't be offended - I don't mean to call you ignorant, I've said my share of ignorant things too. But her new parents have five years to save for her education, so I have to pay for it? Full board? Well here's a thought - her parents haven't had 13 years of financial burden raising a child. Here's a thought: maybe her parents

And that same money you're taxed will still go to help your College. Why do you think that there are "in state" and "resident" discounts for college students? And a lot of the money that goes to help her is not money that you're paying right now... The money that goes to aid people's college tuition comes from things like the interest made off of financial aid loans and is embedded into the cost of going to college. Technically in our college, the people who're paying the tuition I can't are the out-of-staters.

Call me a weirdo, but I don't think either of us deserve tax dollars for college. The fact that she's getting it full board is outrageous to me. Why? Because taxes don't come out of nowhere!!!

Again, I think you need to familiarize yourself on how the government works and how taxes work. I also think you suffer from a case of the "how comes." You think that somebody just sits back and gets money without doing anything, and you want to know how come you can't get the same.

No, I want to know why. I asked how come, not how come I.

I also grew up poor, but I see this in a different light than you (the OP) do.

If there's something in the works that will help people go to college, even if I don't belong to that group, then I am happy for them. Period.

I had to work more than full time and often hold jobs in addition to my full-time job while going to college full-time because we didn't have any money, and the scholarships and grants I did get didn't even begin to cover the costs of my education.

But education was important to me, and I got it. For the last year I had to take out a loan that I only finally paid off this year. Now that I'm out of school debt, I'm ready to jump back in to get my Masters degree.

Do I wish there had been more financial aid available to me? Absolutely. Am I bitter about those people to whom the financial aid was available? Absolutely not.

1) Yeah I'm happy for them too, but you think I'm happy to pay for their education and mine? Or even pay for their education and not get one myself?
2) There's this "New American" way of paying for something with money that you don't have. Some people don't follow it because they don't want to place themselves in a situation that they might not be able to fix.
3) I'm only cold to them when they tell me "it's your parent's responsibility to save up for your education," which basically equates to "haha your parents were too poor to afford real diapers so you have to pay for your education and mine." Do you think that, after that I didn't want to say "yeah well it's your parent's responsibility too but you're still getting a free-load off of my back and every other hard worker's."

I have no problem with paying for my own way - but don't make me pay for someone elses. If you are at least make sure it's someone who NEEDS it!!! If my taxes are going to someone more fortunate than I am you can bet that I'll give a darn!!!




SUMMARY: don't confuse "why must I pay for both mine and her's" with "how come I don't get."

And I do have a problem with paying for special groups. If help was given to the NEEDY than those in special groups which tend to need help would still get it - no one would get an unjust free-ride.

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

Wow we have alot of Mainers on this site... Who would have thought that in a worldwide site we would find three Mainers in a small thread? Anyone from southern region? Saco anybody? I'm formerly of Buxton. Lived the first seven years of my life there, one in Portland i.e. "The City", and have spent the rest in Saco.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I don't buy the I can't afford school stuff. You can. It is not easy but you can. You work you go to school. You do it at a pace that works for you.

Have you seen the success rate of wards of the state once they become of legal age. It is sad. There is no support for them.

BTW, something similar peeved me when I was trying to figure out college funding a few years ago. In my state if your parents are divorced the aid is based on the parent with the lower income. Can I tell you how many classmates I had who had wealthy step-parents who they saw as parents and treated them as their own children since they were infants yet they could claim their barely present father for their assistance?

Edit: After reading your later posts am I correct in assuming you simply want this aid to be more spelled out based on need versus just if a person is a ward of the state adopted after a certain age?

 

[Achichem]

I don't see how giving aid to special groups is anything good. If you just help those who need it most on an individual basis then those who need the help would still get it, and those who don't wouldn't.

fair enough, but something tells me after you get some political science or international studies courses under your belt you might change your mind.

You see I use to think like that, but the reality is that handing out funds on this premises leads to three realities, all of which are far worst:

1) Funds become bureaucratic money, that is when the only people who get the funds are those who know how to fill out the right paper work, which is predominately criminals and scam artists....most people in need never see the funding they need and the objective of the social program fails.
(though as an aware citizen you can take advantage of these dollars big time , but still it is wrong)

2) Funds become political, that is when the funding offered tries to meet as many people need as is possible instead of specific trends, this is horrible because though everyone who needs it gets it, the funding is never enough to actually do anything. That is it's below the threshold to make a difference. This happen all the time in politics, it is the absolutely most insulting thing of all, image the government giving you just $500 to go through university a year but because they did other sources willing to give more are far less likely to help out? Are you in a better situation or worst?

3) Funds become payoffs or a program spends all it funds on administration, this is the worst and is when to address both of the above problems governments fund are to be distributed on at the discretion of a bureaucrat(or group), time and time again it goes to their buddy and the otehr people, who are the last in need of more government funds.

See, your way would be awesome, but can't work till a solution to the above can be come by, in till then I for one will be for targeted funds(even if they not in my favour).

Why should the government take money from one person and give to another unless that person is exceptionally unfortunate?

In truth, I don't think a government should ever try to be "robin hood" , I'm not for social programs.

The reality though is that for now there is no viable alternative, and as such, my only expectation is that the government be honest about who is getting funding and that the funding is adequate the meet the stated objectives. I suppose I can't expect you to agree with me but that is my opinion.

I'm not well off - my friend is better off, government intervention aside. The only thing she lacks is her natural born parents which, trust me, is overrated. I've lived half my life with my father and the other half with my step-father. I would pick my step-father over my father in a heartbeat.

Maybe her case, but what about other foster children, what is the average? Cause the government can't go case by case without making more problems(least from my studies), you don't want them spending more money administrating then helping do you? From my point of view your friend is lucky and your not, but then my life experience still makes me think your in the better position.


G-d bless,
Peace,

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

Again, it’s the same argument. You do not want to pay for her (which you’re not, by the way, even in the unlikely event that you’re paying taxes which I doubt), and you complained in your original post that since she’s “better off slightly” than you, why she should get advantages you feel you deserve too.

This is really frustrating because everything I say you take to mean something totally different - by adding words into it. I don't stick words into your sentences, but unless you (please do) respond to what I'm actually saying then I'm going to stop responding to you at all. It's not going anywhere, helping me, or creating a real debate.

Now to what you said: no, I don't feel like I "deserve (free ride) too." I in fact said that I don't think I should get anything for college assistance, but that it's ridicilous that I should have to pay for hers.

Again, “how come she and not me? I’ve got to pay for mine and my parents had to pay for me, but she doesn’t have to…” And no, her parents haven’t had the 13 years of financial burden of raising her… That’s something you pay for in your taxes. So since you’re offended at helping other people out with your taxes (while ignoring the fact that some of my taxes are going to help you, something that doesn’t seem to bother you), would you rather her be left abandoned in the foster care system until she’s 18 or pay for her college when she’s adopted over the age of 13? She’s a ward of the state, you’re “paying for her” either way… (ignoring, again, the fact that you’re not paying for her education)

Again, you're getting it wrong. “how come she and not me? I’ve got to pay for mine and my parents had to pay for me, but she doesn’t have to…” Uh, sorry hun, but you've got it wrong again. My parents can't afford for my college (in case you didn't get it this time MY FAMILY HAS BEEN TOO POOR TO SAVE UP DURING THOSE 16 YEARS WHERE IT WAS MY PARENT'S "RESPONSBILITY" TO). And did I ever even say "how come she and not me"? I actually recall saying that neither of us should get govenment help (for college, that is) because both of us are capable.

And in case you didn't get the idea, she insulted me and told me that she should get full ride from the state because she is a ward of the state and that it's MY parent's responsibility to save up money for my college. Hello? My parents were ditch poor too, only mine decided not to abandon their responsibility to raise the children they created!!! So thus my parents (and I) are paying her foster parents ($500 a month) and paying for her full ride to college, among the shower of grants, scholarships and financial aid that is available to her for college.

So you accuse me, somebody who’s obviously more familiar with the college process than you, more familiar with how funding works, and I’m “ignorant…” But you’re rational that you shouldn’t have to help her through College because “taxes don’t come from nowhere” is a logical, sound, and rational reason to not support somebody who’s parents were the state for a majority of her life and her College career?

I never called you ignorant. In fact I specifically said that I wasn't calling you ignorant. Did you miss that part, or did you not get it?

And, as you wrapped up mine, I can wrap up your rational as "you are undeserving of the money you earn and it should be taken and given to a more fortunate person."

Hon, I’m sorry, but at this point, I really think you’re just being indignant for the sake of being indignant, and you really don’t know what upsets you or why, you’re just regurgitating either an opinion you’ve heard or an opinion you believe you should have. You’re not “paying” for anything for this girl you wouldn’t be paying for either in the form of basic support until 18. I’d imagine that you’d actually be spending less on her college career than you would be if you were paying for her basic support. Keeping in mind, again, considering the youthfulness displayed in your posts, that I doubt you pay any sort of taxes at this point in your life anyway.

Oh yeah, so I'd pay being less if I was paying for her basic support then if I was for her college... Hey, what about my father who didn't go to college? Or his father? Or his father? Or his father? Or his father? What about breaking the system? Will it be broken? Will the terrible system of uneducated Lithuanians be broken? I don't think it matters. The problem is that people think that education is what you need to succeed in life. It's a good thing but, to make it simple, Bill Gates dropped out. Who the most successful business man in the world?

If you're still upset at having to support and help out your fellow mankind through your tax dollars, then consider this... When the amount of money paid in taxes by the average middle-class family is evenly divided among all of the programs that are funded through tax dollars, you're paying less than 5 cents per program. I don't know about you, but I think your friend is worth 5 cents of my tax dollars.
And if this is a question of what makes her worthy of getting assistance, consider her getting College as being the smallest way to make up for the fact that she went through childhood without parents, and even worse, probably the trauma of being in a situation so bad she needed to be removed for her own safety, on top of the trauma of losing the only parents she’d ever known at that point to be replaced with a constant stream of families and homes before finally, at the age of 13, being introduced to people who were willing and stable enough to be her parents. When you review the reasons for children being put in the foster care system… Violent abuse, neglect, sexual molestation, parents with drug and/or alcohol problems among a stream of other things, you have to know that foster kids do not come from happy situations where “life is handed to them.” Despite your complaints for how hard your life is (and your claim that her situation is better than yours), I doubt you’d trade your life for hers, since I suspect having somebody pay for her College is only the second lucky break of her life, the first being that she was lucky enough to be adopted.

I've lived with my biological father and my non-biological father. For the second time, I'd take my non-biological father in a heartbeat. The idea that it's important to be raised by your biological parents is crap.

And don't presum to know about my life. Foster children don't come from happy places - they're not the only ones.

fair enough, but something tells me after you get some political science or international studies courses under your belt you might change your mind.

Right - have to close down the borders first lol




DaTsar, I want to respond to more of your post but I am le tired. Will do tommorow.

 

[Spherical Time]

I don't know why some people hate America. If you don't want to be a part of the American system, or pay American taxes, then move somewhere else.

 

[ebia]

I don't know why some people hate America. If you don't want to be a part of the American system, or pay American taxes, then move somewhere else.

What makes you think anywhere else wants them?

 

[Electric Skeptic]

I don't know why some people hate America. If you don't want to be a part of the American system, or pay American taxes, then move somewhere else.

Tha'ts just a simplistic and ridiculous solution. Many people like the country of their origin but see things wrong with it - things they want to chagne for the better. To respond with "if you don't like it, move somewhere else" is just pointless. Or perhaps you would have said that to Martin Luther King? And all the african americans who were tired of being discriminated against?

 

[Spherical Time]

Tha'ts just a simplistic and ridiculous solution. Many people like the country of their origin but see things wrong with it - things they want to chagne for the better. To respond with "if you don't like it, move somewhere else" is just pointless. Or perhaps you would have said that to Martin Luther King? And all the african americans who were tired of being discriminated against?

Sorry. The post wasn't intended to be taken literally, but rather as a comentary on the ridiculousness of people saying what I said. If I complain about America, do I hate it? I think that there are many people that have said yes to that, when coming from a political group that they disagree with.

But still, I don't think that the point has been made . . . so I ask again, why do people hate America? After all, criticism seems to be hate nowadays.

I do object to what I feel is the heartlessness of the OP. We live in a society that is not equal, and he claims that this is a friend of his, yet he seems to be tormented by the government helping her instead of being happy for her.

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

Sorry. The post wasn't intended to be taken literally, but rather as a comentary on the ridiculousness of people saying what I said. If I complain about America, do I hate it? I think that there are many people that have said yes to that, when coming from a political group that they disagree with.

But still, I don't think that the point has been made . . . so I ask again, why do people hate America? After all, criticism seems to be hate nowadays.

I do object to what I feel is the heartlessness of the OP. We live in a society that is not equal, and he claims that this is a friend of his, yet he seems to be tormented by the government helping her instead of being happy for her.

Call me weird, but I don't like injustices even if their injustices in favor of my, my brethren or my friends.

As far as "hating America" I'm the last person you'll find to. Oh, btw, America's original Constitution forbade direct taxes - but people didn't like it and they changed it (they didn't leave).

Edit: "Torment": It is both right and just for me to give charity to those who need it - I've given hundreds of dollars to charities. It is not right for the government to steal from the rich and give to the poor, nor is it right for the government to steal from the poor and give to the more fortunate. Call me a weirdo, but those are my politics.

 

[ebia]

Call me weird, but I don't like injustices even if their injustices in favor of my, my brethren or my friends.

As far as "hating America" I'm the last person you'll find to. Oh, btw, America's original Constitution forbade direct taxes - but people didn't like it and they changed it (they didn't leave).

Edit: "Torment": It is both right and just for me to give charity to those who need it - I've given hundreds of dollars to charities. It is not right for the government to steal from the rich and give to the poor, nor is it right for the government to steal from the poor and give to the more fortunate. Call me a weirdo, but those are my politics.

Now we get down to; this is nothing to do with helping someone from a broken home, but all about the politics of "me, me, me, ..."

From a foreign perspective, the irony is outstanding.

 

[beechy]

I have never heard anyone object to government support for foster children before.

 

[Lynden1000]

I don't think the government should be in the business of giving foster kids free post-secondary education. They should get a free education through high school like everybody else and then after that it's their responsibility to figure out how they'll pay for college, if they choose to go. If they can't qualify for a scholarship, then they should apply for financial aid. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can get a student loan.

Worse case scenario, they can get a job and work while in school. It stinks, but you know the saying about being promised a rose garden.