Fossilized Termite Nests and the Flood

[Gracchus]

Did I miss something?

Just about everything. You missed the part about dinosaur tracks in the strata above and below the mounds. Perhaps the termites and the dinosaurs had scuba, or maybe snorkels?

Perhaps a good lesson here when you ask somebody to give an opinion on something specific that you support that request with accurate detail

Perhaps the lesson here is, that when you ask for accurate detail, you actually pay attention to what is presented rather than cherry-picking the data you think supports your position and ignoring the rest.

Here is more on the Morrison Formation: http://home.entouch.net/dmd/termites.htm

 

[TasManOfGod]

One would think the Egyptian and Mesopotamian Civilizations would have noticed and/or recorded a worldwide flood somewhere in their histories.

.

Not really It is hard to record anything when you get wiped out.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Not really It is hard to record anything when you get wiped out.

you do realize that there is evidence of people living in China, Mesopotamia, India, and Egypt in cities during the whole time period proposed for Noah's global flood?

evidence:

damascus
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9362211?query=damascus&ct=

Believed to be the world's oldest continuously inhabited city, it has evidence of occupation from the 4th millennium BC. The first written reference to it is found in Egyptian tablets of the 15th century BC, and biblical sources refer to it as the capital of the Aramaeans.

india:
http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0201/WD20-7110.html

china:
http://english.people.com.cn/200603/23/eng20060323_252797.html

 

[TasManOfGod]

Just about everything. You missed the part about dinosaur tracks in the strata above and below the mounds.

It is not inconceivable that larger animals could leave footprints on ground levels where termite mounds are built and as well have animals leave footprints in higher levels as sediment built up

Perhaps the termites and the dinosaurs had scuba, or maybe snorkels?

Ha Ha Side slitting humour. Have you ever thought of taking comedy up as your principle occupation. It seems like you would at least be good at that

Perhaps the lesson here is, that when you ask for accurate detail, you actually pay attention to what is presented rather than cherry-picking the data you think supports your position and ignoring the rest.

I wasn't cherry picking , I was searching for detail that wasn't there . Nice hand waving though

Here is more on the Morrison Formation: http://home.entouch.net/dmd/termites.htm

Thanks I love reading about what the Flood did.

 

[Baggins]

Not really It is hard to record anything when you get wiped out.

You say this, the whole archaeology community says not

Who to believe, who to believe

 

[TasManOfGod]

Here is a good pic that shows evidence that the Flood occured

The reason is that the only alternative is that there once lived rock burrowing termites that lived millions of years

 

[Baggins]

Here is a good pic that shows that the Flood occured

Now all you've got to do is find the same evidence at the same oligocene horizon the world over and you are there. Nearly.

Then you have to show why this Oligocene sediment is not 3.5 to 35 million years old. But 4000 years old

Until that time, what you have is evidence of a local flood, not a global one.

Shows evidence of thought processes occuring though

 

[timlamb]

If the Biblical Flood destroyed all human life except Noah and his family, then where did the "flood stories from peoples all around the earth" come from?

.

I imagine noah's family repopulated the earth since they are the only ones who could have.

I admit I don't have the figures, but I bet if you work the population growth numbers backward you run out of people about 4500 years ago.

 

[Asimov]

I imagine noah's family repopulated the earth since they are the only ones who could have.

I admit I don't have the figures, but I bet if you work the population growth numbers backward you run out of people about 4500 years ago.

Bet you wouldn't.

 

[timlamb]

Gotta love those Christian mind readers. Not only do they know how I should best live my life, they know what I am thinking.

Hey, heres an idea, why don't you ask an Agnostic or Atheist why he is that way instead of projecting your own limited concepts onto them. I think the answers might surpise you.




An oldie, and still a stinker. One does not choose to believ. You either do, or you don't. I did not choose to become an Atheist. The lack of evidence for god, the many contradictions in the bible, and the behavior of supposed Christians demonstrated the fallacy in Christianity for me.

As I said, why don't you try actually asking why an Atheist is an Atheist instead of assuming you have all the answers with no evidence.


Oh wait, nevermind, for a second I forgot that making assumptions like that is pretty much required to be religious. Evidence doesn't matter if it contradicts the Bible.

I appologise if I misjudged you, but you come across as being so angry at Christians, and you sound anything but apathetic about the bible.

I have talked to alot of atheists most of whom get very angry when approached about Christianity. They will talk about most any other religion but Christianity really sets them off. There is something more than evidence driving their emotions. I understand. I turned away from the church years ago because I didn't like the way I was treated. When I quit holding God responcable for the behavior of men, I developed the kind of relationship with God that I only heard about.
You do choose whether to believe or not. It's a conscious decision, what ever your reasons.
Christ was born, lived, and died. That is history.
Did He die for you? That is faith.
What ever you think about science or Christianity, Don't leave God out of your life.

I guess I've said too much off topic.
There is room to believe in what you can't see.

 

[Jet Black]

I admit I don't have the figures, but I bet if you work the population growth numbers backward you run out of people about 4500 years ago.

a few challenges: work out the population at the time of Jesus. Then work out the average age of the population.

Then do some research: What was the population of rome at the time? what was the population of China? what was the population of Egypt?

These alone should be enough to show you that this argument is fundamentally flawed.

and by the way, growth rates are not constant.

 

[Baggins]

I imagine noah's family repopulated the earth since they are the only ones who could have.

I admit I don't have the figures, but I bet if you work the population growth numbers backward you run out of people about 4500 years ago.

Sorry, wrong

From Talk Origins.

Claim CB620:

A reasonable assumption of population growth rate (0.5 percent) fits with a population that began with two people about 4000 years ago, not with a human history of millions of years.
Source:

Morris, Henry M. 1985. Scientific Creationism. Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 167-169.
Response:

1. This claim assumes that the population growth rate was always constant, which is a false assumption. Wars and plagues would have caused populations to drop from time to time. In particular, population sizes before agriculture would have been severely limited and would have had an average population growth of zero for any number of years.
2. There is no particular reason to choose a population growth rate of 0.5 percent for the calculation. The population growth from 1000 to 1800 has been closer to 0.1227 percent per year (Encyclopaedia Britannica 1984). At that rate, the population would have grown to its present size from the eight Flood survivors in 16,660 years.
3. The population growth rate proposed by the claim would imply unreasonable populations early in history. We will be more generous in our calculations and start with eight people in 2350 B.C.E. (a traditional date for the Flood). Then, assuming a growth rate of 0.5 percent per year, the population after N years is given by
   
   P(N) = 8 × (1.005)N
   
   The Pyramids of Giza were constructed before 2490 B.C.E., even before the proposed Flood date. Even if we assume they were built 100 years after the flood, then the world population for their construction was 13 people. In 1446 B.C.E., when Moses was said to be leading 600,000 men (plus women and children) on the Exodus, this model of population growth gives 726 people in the world. In 481 B.C.E., Xerxes gathered an army of 2,641,000 (according to Herodotus) when the world population, according to the model, was 89,425. Even allowing for exaggerated numbers, the population model makes no sense.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Sorry, wrong

From Talk Origins.

Sorry wrong -there is serious math errors here. Could we have one of our "experts" look at it please.

 

[caravelair]

Sorry wrong -there is serious math errors here.

where?

Could we have one of our "experts" look at it please.

i have a math degree, will that qualify me?

 

[TasManOfGod]

where?

Well we are told that
P(N) = 8 × (1.005)N
now an example is given where N = 100 and it is said the answer(P) is 13
I make it 699.5
However should not the equation for population growth be an exponential function rather than a lineal one?

i have a math degree, will that qualify me?

well i hope so

 

[Dannager]

However should not the equation for population growth be an exponential function rather than a lineal one?

Hahahaha, yes, it should be. That's the point. The claim made by creationists that establishes the figure is linear and assumes a constant growth rate of 0.5%. Baggins demonstrated why that's ridiculous.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Hahahaha, yes, it should be. That's the point. The claim made by creationists that establishes the figure is linear and assumes a constant growth rate of 0.5%. Baggins demonstrated why that's ridiculous.

I am sorrow to burst your bubble but the example was deceitfully given to discredit the bigginning with 8 people at the recorded time of the Flood. Please be honest in your responses otherwise you will dig yourself and your colleagues further into an abyss of fantasy
hey even at a growth rate of 0.5 % per year the function would still be exponential. Where did you say you got your degree?

 

[Dannager]

I am sorrow to burst your bubble but the example was deceitfully given to discredit the bigginning with 8 people at the recorded time of the Flood. Please be honest in your responses otherwise you will dig yourself and your colleagues further into an abyss of fantasy
hey even at a growth rate of 0.5 % per year the function would still be exponential. Where did you say you got your degree?

Oh for Pete's sake. The equation provided is 8 x (1.005)N. If it's unclear, that means "1.005 to the Nth power, multiplied by 8". Perhaps it would be better written as 8 x (1.005)^N, but either way it's still a completely ridiculous figure. Constant growth rates are nonsense. As demonstrated, this progression contradicts scriptural record in many places.

 

[USincognito]

Sorry wrong -there is serious math errors here. Could we have one of our "experts" look at it please.

Oh please. Quibbling with the math is a red herring when one realizes that using the given population extrapolations there would have been like 10,000 people worldwide when the pyramid Khufu was built and 800,000 worldwide in 1 A.D. when Rome alone had a population of a million.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Here is a good source on populaion
http://www.ldolphin.org/popul.html