Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (3)

[Nadiine]

Show me where Jesus said christianity was about believing in the bible.

None of those verses you've listed are evidence of your claim, they're just random verses with the word scripture in them that have been completely removed from any context.

If you don't see and understand what I already posted, how is my explanation GOING TO HELP ANSWER YOU???

Or is it ONLY when you use some scriptures, that they're TRUE? When I use others, they're not true?

JESUS OPENLY STATED THAT THE SCRIPTURES ARE WHAT TESTIFY OF HIM - and the NT disciples and apostles continue the testimony of Christ's fulfillment of the OT scriptures.

If you reject that, YOU ARE REJECTING THEM AS TRUTH; ERRGO, YOU DENY THE TRUTH OF GOD - from God. do you get the link??

If the OT SCRIPTURES TESTIFY OF CHRIST - (Jesus states so), AND YOU DENY SOME OR ALL OF THE OT AS INSPIRED BY GOD or truth... you're denying God's own words as to who He is and what His truth is.
IE. GOD IS A LIAR or falsely mistaken.

That's following God & believing Him??
THE SAME BIBLE THEN GIVES THE MANDATES AS TO HOW TO BE BORN AGAIN. And it's NOT mere "belief" that God exists and following a few principles to "love" & "tolerate" people. (which I often don't see followed!)

 

[invisible trousers]

CHRISTIANITY IS BELIEVING (abiding by)THE CENTRAL TENETS OF THE BIBLE - BY THE INCEPTORS OF THAT RELIGION who taught who that God was and His requirements.

Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who sees a phenomenally huge problem problem with this statement.

 

[Nadiine]

Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who sees a phenomenally huge problem problem with this statement.

Of course those who are of like mind with you, will see a HUGE problem with my statement!!!

My reply: I consider the sources.

 

[invisible trousers]

I don't know, I think many people who disagree with my theology will find problems with it.

edit: Not once in this thread have I questioned the authority of the bible. Please stop making up lies by saying that I have. This is now the 2nd thread I've had to make this exact same request. Once again, I ask you to stop making false claims and attributing them to me.

 

[Erwin]

Yes, you explained there, and you said you would continue to add to it and answer questions in this thread (before this last split). But one set of questions, mine included, have been copied and pasted about 7 times, and you're not answering them.

PM me, I can't possibly go through all the posts to find them.

 

[Erwin]

Erwin, Thank you for taking the time to reply to those points. I truly do appreciate it, and I'm sure other's do as well. I did read the FAQ you posted, but I didn't see anything that stated it was drsteve's poll. I apologize for misunderstanding, and thank you for correcting that mis-information. I won't bring that up again.

It's okay - I thought by posting in the actual poll thread itself it would be clear I was referring to the poll that I actually posted in, but obviously not.

 

[SunMessenger]

It is in our walk with Christ that Christianity is defined . As we walk we learn and we see examples of what it is . We can only guide another to the path and help them along their way .Each must travel at their own pace as they continue under their own power. They must take the actual steps on their own because they want to. No man can carry or push another to Christ.

I am praying...

Sun

 

[SunMessenger]

It's one of the principles behind the Peace of Westphalia, which was a series of treaties that ended the Thirty Years War, which broke out as part of the Reformation. It means, in Latin, "Whose region, his religion."

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Nadiine]

And I'll repost just the verses again.
The claims given are that SCRIPTURE IS ESSENTIAL to the Christian faith. They testify who God is, God's plan, God's requirements and God's principles.
WOULDN'T ONE WHO IS OF GOD BELIEVE HIS GOD'S COMMANDS found in those in scriptures?

To deny it (reject it) is to deny God's word to us, AND the definition of what a true follower is and believes and does... how does one claim God, yet reject the scriptures HE CLAIMED ARE TRUTH from Him and OF HIM??

POST:
If you reject the writings of God (from God thru man), then aren't you denying what HE said and what He requires?
Matthew 26:56
"But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets." Then all the disciples left Him and fled.

Mark 12:10
"Have you not even read this Scripture:' THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;

Mark 12:24
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?

Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24:32
They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He (Jesus) was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"

Luke 24:45
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

John 5:39
[ Witness of the Scripture ] " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these (scriptures)that testify about Me;

Acts 1:16
"Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.

Romans 15:4
For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

1 Timothy 4:13
Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

**PETER WAS A DIRECT DISCIPLE OF JESUS AND LEARNED FROM JESUS**
2 Peter 1:20
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,

**PETER SUPPORTS PAUL'S EPISTLES - HE DIRECTLY LEARNED AND FOLLOWED CHRIST, THEN SUPPORTS PAUL'S WRITINGS AS TRUTH FROM GOD!

2 Pet. 3:15
...as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

You can cancel out and erase any scripture or all scriptures to your hearts desire.
I've posted why I adhere to them, WHICH DEFINES CHRISTIANITY becuz they are the inceptors of the religion itself.
Unless YOU know more about God than they do..??

If so, should I come to YOU for my truth about God? I don't have the faith or audacity to believe anything other than what the scriptures tell me from eyewitnesses of God firsthand.

Jesus says this:
Mt. 7:
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (sin).

If this isn't enough, then just reject it - I can't see anymore point in continuing this when the verses speak for themselves. Anymore of my input isn't going change anything.
but prayer can

 

[invisible trousers]

For the third time I'm requesting you stop making up lies about things I've supposedly said and claimed. I have not once denied nor questioned the authenticity of the bible, and I ask that you would at least extend me the courtesy of being truthful. Not a single verse supports your claim that christianity isn't about God, but instead about the bible. None of them support any of your claims. They're random verses that have been removed from any sort of context which happen to have the word 'scripture' in them.

VVV I'm a christian yo, but just of the ones that thinks Christianity is supposed to be centered around Christ, not the bible. I'm one of the ones who thinks God isn't kept inside the box of conservative christian (or any christian for that matter) biblical interpretations and instead also reveals Himself via methods other than the bible. VVVVV

 

[SunMessenger]

And I'll repost just the verses again.
The claims given are that SCRIPTURE IS ESSENTIAL to the Christian faith. They testify who God is, God's plan, God's requirements and God's principles.
WOULDN'T ONE WHO IS OF GOD BELIEVE HIS GOD'S COMMANDS found in those in scriptures?

Yes but one can not expect a seeker who is only beginning to know all that. That must come to them as they read if in their walk they choose to read or learn.

If this isn't enough, then just reject it - I can't see anymore point in continuing this when the verses speak for themselves. Anymore of my input isn't going change anything.

but prayer can

There is a large point in directing as you have so eloquently done. Well said. Prayer can indeed move the earth itself as God does listen. Thank you for that and Praise God !

 

[Jere209]

For the third time I'm requesting you stop making up lies about things I've supposedly said and claimed. I have not once denied nor questioned the authenticity of the bible, and I ask that you would at least extend me the courtesy of being truthful. Not a single verse supports your claim that christianity isn't about God, but instead about the bible. None of them support any of your claims. They're random verses that have been removed from any sort of context which happen to have the word 'scripture' in them.

VVV I'm a christian yo

Can I ask a question here?
Invisible Trousers..I really don't understand what you are saying. "Not a single verse supports your claim that Christianity isn't about GOD, but instead about the Bible"..
Are you saying that you believe Christianity is about God?
Thanks!

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

In retrospect, it probably wasn't good for me to call out Erwin's walk with God. I know that no one knows his heart truly except for God. But with a bit of sleep and a clear head, I am move forward with my posts. Sorry Erwin.

I am alarmed at the way that so many here are missing the point. They are looking at taking Christ out of the name and out of the main center of this board as nothing harmless. Anytime we remove Christ's name from anything, good things are not going to follow. I feel that taking Christ's name out of this board is not going to attract Atheists. I don't believe it will attract christians either. This board's new vision is nothing more than a cheap way of being politically correct. I don't think it is so much to ask for to have a christian message board reach out to atheist with the christian name. Why is it harmful to keep Christ's name on the board? Why is it that in all of society we are taking "being good" as being a christian thing. Just because someone is nice doesn't make them a christian. Just because a song has no objectionable content doesn't make it a christian song. We have to understand that sugarcoating things are not making things christian.

Guess what? There is a hell, there is no way of sugarcoating damnation. It is real. There is no way of sugarcoating sin. It isn't "bad habits" it's real problems and it is a matter of the heart. It is evil taking us away from God. No matter what people want to think, you cannot serve to masters. Just like you can't serve God and money, you can't serve God and the world. You have to make your choice.

 

[Nadiine]

Yes but one can not expect a seeker who is only beginning to know all that. That must come to them as they read if in their walk they choose to read or learn.

It's people claiming they are Christian here, (who've been here a long time or have claimed to be of Christ for a long time.
Of course new seekers don't know this, you're right. Many of them actually assume the Bible is accepted as the inspired word of God by all Christians.

There is a large point in directing as you have so eloquently done. Well said. Prayer can indeed move the earth itself as God does listen. Thank you for that and Praise God !

How do ANY of us see God's truth without GOD who reveals it to us -WE JUST NEED TO HAVE A SOFT, SUBMISSIVE HEART to recieve it.
Otherwise, truth falls on hard, stony ground and no root takes place from it.

 

[invisible trousers]

Can I ask a question here?
Invisible Trousers..I really don't understand what you are saying. "Not a single verse supports your claim that Christianity isn't about GOD, but instead about the Bible"..
Are you saying that you believe Christianity is about God?
Thanks!

Yeah. Christianity is about belief in God. It's not about believing in the bible. God, not the bible is the central figure in christianity. And if He isn't, then He darn well should be. The bible tells us all sorts of things about God and obviously a way He reveals Himself to us, but it's not something He's limited to. I believe that it's possible for someone to become and be a christian without ever having seen a bible and without ever have reciting your favorite creed.

I think that when the focus is taken away from God and put on the bible, we essentially remove God and replace him with our own interpretations of scripture. We limit God to only what we want to believe about him-- an awful disservice if you ask me. We replace a perfect being with an imperfect one, which is why there's all this ridiculous fighting of who determines who is christian. Our faith will always be weak and troubled if it's placed in man, but will never be if it's in God.

 

[CaDan]

God hates illiterates.

 

[Jere209]

Yeah. Christianity is about belief in God. It's not about believing in the bible. God, not the bible is the central figure in christianity. The bible tells us all sorts of things about God and is totally a way He reveals Himself to us, but it's not something He's limited to. I believe that it's possible for someone to become and be a christian without ever having seen a bible.

You're right and you're wrong here.


Christianity is God, yes. Christianity is Jesus Christ. You break down the word Christian and it means "Little Christ". When you start saying things like this, you get into the Trinity, which would be Father, Spirit and Son. You have 3 separate beings, yet one. This is a doctrinal debatable issue among many. To stick with the basics, though, the Bible is the infallible Word of God. Written by man, but inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is not holy in itself, but the Words contained are holy. Meaning the paper it is written upon is not holy ..

No God is not limited to revealing Himself in a Bible. God reveals Himself in many ways, all the time. Look around and God is in the creation.

It is possible for one to become a Christian and not have read the Bible, that is true. But once the person becomes a Christian, the hunger to know the Word of God is there, and therefore wants to read the Bible..

 

[Dying2Live4Christ]

You're right and you're wrong here.


Christianity is God, yes. Christianity is Jesus Christ. You break down the word Christian and it means "Little Christ". When you start saying things like this, you get into the Trinity, which would be Father, Spirit and Son. You have 3 separate beings, yet one. This is a doctrinal debatable issue among many. To stick with the basics, though, the Bible is the infallible Word of God. Written by man, but inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is not holy in itself, but the Words contained are holy. Meaning the paper it is written upon is not holy ..

No God is not limited to revealing Himself in a Bible. God reveals Himself in many ways, all the time. Look around and God is in the creation.

It is possible for one to become a Christian and not have read the Bible, that is true. But once the person becomes a Christian, the hunger to know the Word of God is there, and therefore wants to read the Bible..

repped

 

[invisible trousers]

I think you've become a little confused, I've been a christian my whole life

I disagree with you about the infallibility and trinity- my "biblical standard" obviously doesn't match up with yours. If I were someone who thought the central focus of christianity was the bible then right now I'd be accusing you of being unchristian because you don't agree with my biblical interpretations. However, like I said earlier, people are christian because they believe in Christ, not because they believe in their interpretations of scripture.

Also be careful with calling the bible the Word, that title is saved for God (John 1). It's safer to say the bible is the word, because I think a lot of bad things happen when you equate the two.

 

[Nadiine]

Yeah. Christianity is about belief in God. It's not about believing in the bible. God, not the bible is the central figure in christianity. And if He isn't, then He darn well should be. The bible tells us all sorts of things about God and obviously a way He reveals Himself to us, but it's not something He's limited to. I believe that it's possible for someone to become and be a christian without ever having seen a bible and without ever have reciting your favorite creed.

And my claim is, A GENUINE CHRISTIAN WOULD BELIEVE THE BIBLE AS GOD'S WORD TO US just by it's own claims from the inceptors who walked with God.
Saying one is Christian, yet not adhering to the Bible as TRUTH about God, is to essentially claim, I know God, but I don't agree with everything THAT one says... but I'm a believer.

BELIEVER OF WHAT/WHOM? Based on what/whom?

I'm not speaking of YOU directly, I"m speaking to the many claiming God while rejecting many bible passages as true.
One girl rejects that the book of Job is true, she claims it's false based on her perceptions of God and God's love.

I think that when the focus is taken away from God and put on the bible, we essentially remove God and replace him with our own interpretations of scripture

John 5:39
[ Witness of the Scripture ] " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these (scriptures)that testify about Me;
Jesus claims THOSE SCRIPTURES TESTIFY ABOUT HIM.
How is that taking focus off God?? IT'S TEACHING YOU WHO YOUR GOD IS.
how does one deny scripture inspiration/truth, then claim to uphold God???

The bible tells us all sorts of things about God and obviously a way He reveals Himself to us, but it's not something He's limited to. I believe that it's possible for someone to become and be a christian without ever having seen a bible and without ever have reciting your favorite creed.

Absolutely, BUT A REAL ONE WHO IS OF HIM, WILL ALSO ACCEPT THAT SCRIPTURE AS INSPIRED BY GOD UPON BEING SHOWN THAT. Just as the Ethopian did when Philip used the Bible to witness Christ to him.
And upon hearing, HE BELIEVED.
i'M SPEAKING OF THOSE WHO CLAIM GOD, YET DENY HIS SCRIPTURES.

We limit God to only what we want to believe about him--

And is that not what "christians" do when they reject what's given in the Bible, to embrace their own ideals and preconceptions of God?
Who they make Him to be in their own minds? Then force the Bible to conform to THAT? RATHER THAN LET THE BIBLE TEACH THEM THE FULL ACCOUNT of His attributes?
ie. His attributes of righteousness/holiness, justice and wrath aren't ERASED and cancelled out by His attribute of LOVE - yet people think becuz He loves, HE THEN CAN'T JUDGE or condemn.

So they create a god according to their human perception of what LOVE is, NOT WHAT GOD SAYS LOVE IS.
PEOPLE limit God by teaching the BIBLE what it needs to say about God. Who think they are the authority over what's true, not what they're taught by it.
(cherry picking).