Formulas and Methodology's

[tobethebest]

Much of what I read among Christians has to do with what I call "formulas." If we do this, God will do that. And I don't feel that it was God's intent that we see following after Christ as a method of achieving things if we learn the formulas. I know it says that if we confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts that Christ died for our sins, we are saved. That is a formula that I will forever acknowledge as truth. But, as for the rest, I do not believe that confessing brings possessing, especially when it comes to healing. My wife has been chronically ill for more than a decade. She does all the right things; prayer, fasting, confessions of faith etc. and no improvements. We simply have come to the place where we do not believe God works by formulas. We welcome your comments.

 

[BryanW92]

Much of what I read among Christians has to do with what I call "formulas." If we do this, God will do that. And I don't feel that it was God's intent that we see following after Christ as a method of achieving things if we learn the formulas. I know it says that if we confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts that Christ died for our sins, we are saved. That is a formula that I will forever acknowledge as truth. But, as for the rest, I do not believe that confessing brings possessing, especially when it comes to healing. My wife has been chronically ill for more than a decade. She does all the right things; prayer, fasting, confessions of faith etc. and no improvements. We simply have come to the place where we do not believe God works by formulas. We welcome your comments.

I agree. We often try to over-promise for God when we are evangelizing (or preaching, or teaching). John 10:10 says that "I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." People like to use that to illustrate prosperity gospel (confessing is possessing, name it and claim it, etc).

But, the real meaning is that any life centered on Christ is a good one. Even a poor person or a sick person who is centered on Christ has an abundant and fruitful life because they have all that they need. Of course, very few are 100% centered on Christ, so any apprehension, anxiety, or envy that we feel does not prove that we are not centered on Christ. It just proves that there is always weakness in the flesh.

 

[michaelG1949]

an example i had was my grandma, last 5 years of her life, blind in a nursing home in a wheelchair. all her sons had died, yet she had the joy of Christ in her heart, the people there said she was a joy and inspiration to them and the others living there. some times our sorrows and hardships are blessings for others, and part of Gods greater plans.

 

[greentwiga]

When I was going to Bible School, I kept asking, "How do you walk with God?" Each person gave me his ten point plan. I was frustrated. Something was wrong. Finally, I learned to walk by faith. I even learned that "anything not by faith is sin." If I try to earn something from God by doing good works, that is sin. The simple method is to keep sins confessed, and know that God fills you with His Spirit at that point. Then, when the Spirit fills you with God's love for other people including the lost, you can't help but do good works.

 

[InChristForever]

God promises to go with you, He never promised it would be easy. He promised He would answer every prayer, just not with yes...

"Gird up the loins of your mind, and hope to the end" and that is what we must do. Trials will come, and we must endure... He causes it to rain on the just and the unjust... He knows what He is doing... we have to trust Him. God is good! I always find comfort in hymns and poems... You probably know this one well.

I am so glad that our Father in heav'n
Tells of His love in the Book He has giv'n;
Wonderful things in the Bible I see
This is the dearest, that Jesus loves me.

Chorus:
I am so glad that Jesus loves me,
Jesus loves me, Jesus loves me;
I am so glad that Jesus loves me,
Jesus loves even me.

Tho I forget Him and wander away,
Still He doth love me wherever I stray;
Back to His dear loving arms would I flee,
When I remember that Jesus loves me.

Jesus loves me, and I know I love Him;
Love brought Him down my poor soul to redeem;
Yes, it was love made Him die on the tree;
Oh, I am certain that Jesus loves me!

In this assurance I find sweetest rest,
Trusting in Jesus, I know I am blessed;
Satan, dismayed, from my soul now doth flee,
When I just tell him that Jesus loves me.

O if there's only one song I can sing
When in His beauty I see the great King,
This shall my song in eternity be:
"O what a wonder, that Jesus loves me!"

 

[turned around]

Hi,
Romans 11:6 reveals how we receive from heaven, and discloses how a veil is placed over our hearts. We can only receive by God's unmerited favor(grace). Truly so much of the church teaches a variety of methods and formulas=law based system. We deserve nothing from heaven „ we can never do anything by own effort to move God. But Jesus the one full of grace and truth has pleased the Father]
and has made us joint heirs. The key is he made us joint heirs, when my mind gets renewed and I come into agreement with this, now the blessings can flow.

 

[tobethebest]

I appreciate all that has been said, but in reality, my wife continues in chronic pain. After a certain point in her walk of "faith" she has broken down many, many times. It's then that there aren't words enough to encourage her. Her pain levels are intense and unrelenting, her attempts at speaking the right words are diminished, her belief in following after something that has fought to destroy her from within, is enough. And just how narrow is the way to healing, for her it's too narrow to pass through. We aren't after anything more than what others take for granted, we would like to visit stores together, share an ice cream cone, roll around in the field with our dog, and just laugh. If we could have that with perfect health, we would be eterally grateful. To you, our Heavenly Father, we write this.

 

[greentwiga]

My wife also is in constant pain. We no longer take those long walks together, or much of anything else that she liked to do. Sometimes she doesn't want me to say anything, but just hold her and support her.

 

[tobethebest]

It would be nice to understand what is it you and your wife suffer. Our troubles have many names. Several of which are used widely and taken in by others as common ailments, simple things that to them shouldn't require such a drive toward reaching "God" and ending so much of it. Her eleven or so years of it is far too long and far too draining and painful. We don't want sympathy, we want a demonstration of the power of "God", a direct response to our immediate needs. Nothing else matters. We've done our share of waiting and prayer and believing beyond hope. We've been there. "We won't accept another explanation of what we are doing wrong. How can one do wrong when all my wife does is pray, seek God, cry, call out, call on "God in her prayer lanugauge" fast or simply not eat at all, We want this done with, over and on to bigger and better. Please, dear Jesus, give us what so many others take advantage of. Love us Dear Lord and heal us as we have mentioned time and again over the past many years. Forgive us of our wrongdoings. You are the love of both of our lives. You are the author and finisher of our faith. You are our hope for a new life, a new earth, a new place where we can be thankful and erase the past. Love us Lord and make us both healthy once again. Please allow us to enjoy our home and my job, with joy and and gentleness, while adding joy to Donnas' day while I'm at work. Allow her to enjoy Boo, our dog, and give her bones the strength to laugh and play in the back yard again. We love you Lord, we need you Lord, we plead with you Lord for comfort and blessings from above. You are our everything.

 

[thesunisout]

2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

God is absolutely sovereign and sometimes He decides not to heal. In this case, Paul had to leave his friend behind because he hadn't been healed. If Paul couldn't heal him, it surely wasn't a problem with Pauls faith. It was simply that God will not act unless it is His will. If we pray in His will, one of the conditions is that we accept an answer of "no". His will is for us to serve and obey Him regardless of what He does or doesn't do. In the case of Trophimus, his answer was no. Paul did not grumble but continued on in his journey, and that is a model for all of us who are waiting on healings. It's frustrating when they don't come, but God is still God; to be obeyed at all times and worthy of all our praise.

 

[InChristForever]

I appreciate all that has been said, but in reality, my wife continues in chronic pain. After a certain point in her walk of "faith" she has broken down many, many times. It's then that there aren't words enough to encourage her. Her pain levels are intense and unrelenting, her attempts at speaking the right words are diminished, her belief in following after something that has fought to destroy her from within, is enough. And just how narrow is the way to healing, for her it's too narrow to pass through. We aren't after anything more than what others take for granted, we would like to visit stores together, share an ice cream cone, roll around in the field with our dog, and just laugh. If we could have that with perfect health, we would be eterally grateful. To you, our Heavenly Father, we write this.

Dear one... in the great loss that I suffered this last year, right after the event the Lord gave this verse to me. I am not trying to diminish where you are... it just helped me.

Lam 1:12 "Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? behold, and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the LORD hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger."

Our sorrow no matter how great, should never overide what He has done for us already. He gave His only Son, who suffered and gave Himself for us. He knows how you feel, and He know and has delt with more pain than we can ever imagine.

 

[greentwiga]

It would be nice to understand what is it you and your wife suffer. Our troubles have many names. Several of which are used widely and taken in by others as common ailments, simple things that to them shouldn't require such a drive toward reaching "God" and ending so much of it. Her eleven or so years of it is far too long and far too draining and painful. We don't want sympathy, we want a demonstration of the power of "God", a direct response to our immediate needs. Nothing else matters. We've done our share of waiting and prayer and believing beyond hope. We've been there. "We won't accept another explanation of what we are doing wrong. How can one do wrong when all my wife does is pray, seek God, cry, call out, call on "God in her prayer lanugauge" fast or simply not eat at all, We want this done with, over and on to bigger and better. Please, dear Jesus, give us what so many others take advantage of. Love us Dear Lord and heal us as we have mentioned time and again over the past many years. Forgive us of our wrongdoings. You are the love of both of our lives. You are the author and finisher of our faith. You are our hope for a new life, a new earth, a new place where we can be thankful and erase the past. Love us Lord and make us both healthy once again. Please allow us to enjoy our home and my job, with joy and and gentleness, while adding joy to Donnas' day while I'm at work. Allow her to enjoy Boo, our dog, and give her bones the strength to laugh and play in the back yard again. We love you Lord, we need you Lord, we plead with you Lord for comfort and blessings from above. You are our everything.

We have been married for nine years. In that time, she was diagnosed with diabetes, had her lung collapse three times and had to lose a piece of her lung, beentold she had cardiomyopathy and had a pacemaker put in, had stomach pains from several spurces which led to finding colon cancer which didn't cause the pain, had cataract surgery, had bursitis in her left shoulder, and developed a pinched nerve in her neck causing constant pain in her arm. During this time, she also lost her son due to the same heart condition. She continues to work, but I don't know if she can continue if the pain can't be cured. We continue to trust God to use us, but some days are difficult. I being healthy, can easily say what the last person said, but only people who have suffered like our wives have, have the ability to speak with authority about living victoriously in the midst of pain. I watch my wife grow in that victory and rejoice. Since I haven't suffered, I can just hold her listen, and encourage.

 

[InChristForever]

I being healthy, can easily say what the last person said, but only people who have suffered like our wives have, have the ability to speak with authority about living victoriously in the midst of pain.

Those are not wise words brother, I do not need to voice what has happend to me and what I suffer now. That is between God and myself. I will forgive you for your insensitivity, because I know myself, the pain came out in manifestations that were not godly even if I felt justified in it.

I will say it again, I found peace in my trial, in the pain, the sorrow, the hurt because of that verse (as I should). I know that He suffered far worse, so I took joy in my tribulation and found peace in knowing it. Those words are not empty.

Love never fails... rest on it.

 

[greentwiga]

Those are not wise words brother, I do not need to voice what has happend to me and what I suffer now. That is between God and myself. I will forgive you for your insensitivity, because I know myself, the pain came out in manifestations that were not godly even if I felt justified in it.

I will say it again, I found peace in my trial, in the pain, the sorrow, the hurt because of that verse (as I should). I know that He suffered far worse, so I took joy in my tribulation and found peace in knowing it. Those words are not empty.

Love never fails... rest on it.

sorry, I got confused.

 

[InChristForever]

That is fine dear brother. Hurt goes deep, and understand God's love and dwelling on it heals everything. Trust me

 

[hopeinGod]

Many questions regarding our lives as believers are unanswerable in this life. Why God has chosen it to be so is anyone's guess. I guess He feels He's answerable to no man.

 

[Neogaia777]

1 Corinthians 17-24 "Let each one so walk as God has called him", & "whatever condition each one was called brothers, let him walk in it.

Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it, sometimes the innocent (those who "appear" to be doing everything "right") are sometimes made to suffer (maybe because of the guilty) But really there is none "innocent" save one, Jesus Christ. But/then some seemingly (really gross sinners) seem to sometimes live relatively long full lives seemingly free from any kind of consequences, while others who are trying to do the "right" thing can have a life full of problems.

It is a difficult question to be sure, one wants to know, "where" is "justice" in this world, I personally don't know.

 

[Yitzchak]

I can see two sides to the issue.


The Methodist church got their name because Wesley was so successful with methodical Christianity which used disciplines and methods in their Christian walk. Another example of an extremely successful ministry which used methods was that of Charles Finney who experienced incredible revivals.

On the other side of the issue is the fact that Christianity is meant to be a religion based upon a relationship and not upon just a set of principles. The Pharisees were masters at methodology that did not work because their heart was far from God.

I think it is when we combine methods which are actually biblical promises with a right heart and a right relationship that we have a powerful combination. I don't think that we should strive , but I do think that we should be determined to seek God diligently.

Another person cannot decide for you what is considered to be diligent seeking. I remember reading a book about the early missionaries who worked in Argentina in the years prior to the big Argentina revival. They said that back then it was a very heavy atmosphere and very discouraging to work for the Lord in that mission field. The man I was reading about decided that he would fast for breakthrough. He set a pattern of a 24 hour water only fast followed by 48 hours of eating. He did that for two years and then started to get discouraged and think about stopping his fasting because he saw no results. The week he was thinking about quitting , his breakthroughs came. My thought when I read that story was that this man was a lot more determined than me concerning his fasting. I get discouraged if I do two or three 24 hour fasts with no results. If I do the math , this guy did around 240 fasts without results before he was ready to quit. The fact that he received his breakthroughs at that point means it was working. But I can be honest when I say that I would have given up long before two years.

So when people say that they have tried fasting and prayer without any results , that story always goes through my mind and I wonder what one person means by having diligently sought and another means are two different things.

Since I don't know you and I don't know what you mean by your story , I can only speculate. I am human too and have my weaknesses and my areas where I want breakthrough and am still waiting. I sometimes get similar questions as you do about my own situations. But One of the things which I have often thought is that true and perfect faith takes a position of never giving up. The passage about Abraham comes to mind , in this regard.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Abraham actually went to his grave still believing in promises which he never saw the full answer to in his life upon the earth. I think when we have faith like that , we will even go to our grave still believing. I know we get glorified bodies in Heaven and will have prefect "healing" then if not upon this earth.

Bottom line. I say don't give up on God's promise of healing for your wife. I would only do that if you receive a very definite word from God telling you that it is her time to die. Anything short of that , and I think we should never give up contending for God's best.

That is my opinion.