Forming a new forum will not stop some trads harrassment

[Mankin]

Do you honestally think that a certain member will stop harrassing us if we form a new forum? They'll march over there and say we don't have a right to call our forum progressive. Also personally, I don't want us to be pushed around like a doormat so we bend to their wishes and form a new forum.

 

[AndrewK788]

Do you honestally think that a certain member will stop harrassing us if we form a new forum? They'll march over there and say we don't have a right to call our forum progressive. Also personally, I don't want us to be pushed around like a doormat so we bend to their wishes and form a new forum.

It was my understanding that the progressives wanted to be separately identified from the traditional Seventh-day Adventist church. I think the reason people get so riled up now is because both progs and trads subforums are under the heading Seventh-day Adventists, so as a result members from opposing viewpoints get paranoid about what the other side is saying because they don't want it to be misunderstood as relating to all Adventists.

Personally, I think that's exactly why we need 2 separate forums. It's not about the trads pushing anyone around, but about the fact that there are 2 distinct sets of beliefs that I think put a clear divide in the church, and thus there need to be 2 separate churches. It's already evident the 2 sides cannot peacefully coexist under one roof so why force them to?

In doing this, I think it would create less turmoil in both sides so that people could actually have some peace and quiet to discuss things of real importance...such as Jesus.

 

[tall73]

It was my understanding that the progressives wanted to be separately identified from the traditional Seventh-day Adventist church. I think the reason people get so riled up now is because both progs and trads subforums are under the heading Seventh-day Adventists, so as a result members from opposing viewpoints get paranoid about what the other side is saying because they don't want it to be misunderstood as relating to all Adventists.

Personally, I think that's exactly why we need 2 separate forums. It's not about the trads pushing anyone around, but about the fact that there are 2 distinct sets of beliefs that I think put a clear divide in the church, and thus there need to be 2 separate churches. It's already evident the 2 sides cannot peacefully coexist under one roof so why force them to?

In doing this, I think it would create less turmoil in both sides so that people could actually have some peace and quiet to discuss things of real importance...such as Jesus.

No, it would then just start a whole new fight about the name.

Whether they like each other or not they are both Adventists.

 

[Sophia7]

Do you honestally think that a certain member will stop harrassing us if we form a new forum? They'll march over there and say we don't have a right to call our forum progressive. Also personally, I don't want us to be pushed around like a doormat so we bend to their wishes and form a new forum.

No, it would then just start a whole new fight about the name.

Whether they like each other or not they are both Adventists.

Exactly. They would just come over to the new forum and say that it shouldn't use the name "Adventist."

 

[freeindeed2]

Exactly. They would just come over to the new forum and say that it shouldn't use the name "Adventist."

Maybe they could call it the '14th Day Second Comingers'.

Just a thought...

 

[StormyOne]

It was my understanding that the progressives wanted to be separately identified from the traditional Seventh-day Adventist church. I think the reason people get so riled up now is because both progs and trads subforums are under the heading Seventh-day Adventists, so as a result members from opposing viewpoints get paranoid about what the other side is saying because they don't want it to be misunderstood as relating to all Adventists.

Personally, I think that's exactly why we need 2 separate forums. It's not about the trads pushing anyone around, but about the fact that there are 2 distinct sets of beliefs that I think put a clear divide in the church, and thus there need to be 2 separate churches. It's already evident the 2 sides cannot peacefully coexist under one roof so why force them to?

In doing this, I think it would create less turmoil in both sides so that people could actually have some peace and quiet to discuss things of real importance...such as Jesus.

then your understanding is not quite correct.... the progressives were not pushing for anything OTHER THAN for those who claimed to be traditional to STOP saying who or who was not a "true adventist." The reality is that within adventism there is a wide variety of beliefs.... people are not kicked out of the church because of the beliefs that they hold, except here in this forum some wish to believe themselves the "pure standard."

So that is the issue, the nonacceptance of those who don't hold the views they hold...

 

[tall73]

Stormy is correct regarding the initial wish of the progs. Long before Night etc. even came on the scene Stormy and them just wanted to be able to discuss without being labled as fake Adventists.

And you all don't need your own forum. You already have your own forum. They just want to bring it into submission, but it won't happen. You are your own area under the Adventist category, due to the fact that you ARE Adventist.

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy is correct regarding the initial wish of the progs. Long before Night etc. even came on the scene Stormy and them just wanted to be able to discuss without being labled as fake Adventists.

And you all don't need your own forum. You already have your own forum. They just want to bring it into submission, but it won't happen. You are your own area under the Adventist category, due to the fact that you ARE Adventist.

thanks tall for that clarification.....

 

[NightEternal]

Stormy is correct regarding the initial wish of the progs. Long before Night etc. even came on the scene Stormy and them just wanted to be able to discuss without being labled as fake Adventists.

But, you see Tall, that has not been happening, is not happening, and will not ever happen. So it is a moot point. It will continue for as long as we are in thier presence.

Therefore, I strongly disagree with you guys on this. A split is the only solution, and I am amazed you all still cannot see this after the beatings you have all taken since the last poll.

Do you guys actually enjoy this and think this is working on any level?

Split the forums. It's time.

 

[sentipente]

Split the forums. It's time.

What will stop the naysayers from visiting whatever new forum you establish and reporting what you say? Do you really think all Woob wants is a new forum?

 

[Adventtruth]

What will stop the naysayers from visiting whatever new forum you establish and reporting what you say? Do you really think all Woob wants is a new forum?

I dont think he wants debate.

AT

 

[NightEternal]

What will stop the naysayers from visiting whatever new forum you establish and reporting what you say? Do you really think all Woob wants is a new forum?

I do not believe they will do this. They want desperately to be rid of us and seperated from us, so why in the world would they make a point of coming to our forum? Yes, they are doing it right now in the Prog area, but that is only because we are still located in this subforum area. Once we are totally divested from them in every way, including physical location, it will not be a problem. They will stay away. I am sure they will agree to this if it means getting rid of us.

Of course, if it does happen, we will have our own rules in place and the harrassers can be dealt with.

 

[tall73]

I do not believe they will do this. They want desperately to be rid of us and seperated from us, so why in the world would they make a point of coming to our forum? Yes, they are doing it right now in the Prog area, but that is only because we are still located in this subforum area. Once we are totally divested from them in every way, including physical location, it will not be a problem. They will stay away. I am sure they will agree to this if it means getting rid of us.

Of course, if it does happen, we will have our own rules in place and the harrassers can be dealt with.

Do you intend to use the name "Seventh-day Adventist" in any part of your new forum name?

If so then you are just moving the battle to a different hill.

 

[freeindeed2]

But, you see Tall, that has not been happening, is not happening, and will not ever happen. So it is a moot point. It will continue for as long as we are in thier presence.

Therefore, I strongly disagree with you guys on this. A split is the only solution, and I am amazed you all still cannot see this after the beatings you have all taken since the last poll.

Do you guys actually enjoy this and think this is working on any level?

Split the forums. It's time.

NE, I totally hear what you're saying. From a unity standpoint I would vote for a split.

However, I believe iron sharpens iron. If we were to split and outlaw each side from having ANY access to the other, then it would definitely be a complete fellowship thread, except that there would still be different views among each respective side. I didn't come here to not be challenged. I welcome it and don't mind conflict (we learn better through it). The early church had it, we have had it, and we will continue to have it to the very end. Conflict is not a bad thing until it turns into what some choose (or have no control over) to do here - personally attack those they disagree with.

I would rather see a simple enforcement of simple rules that make it extremely difficult for someone to make report after report after report after report after report...you know what I mean. If someone disagrees with my current view, WHO CARES! I welcome it! Because when they present what they believe I can guage it against Scripture - APART FROM FEELING I HAVE TO DEFEND A DENOMINATION OR A SELF-CLAIMED 'PROPHET' - and see if it holds up. I don't have to defend EGW, I don't have to defend SDA doctrine. I did that for 35 years! I don't have to do it anymore, which is one of the reasons I resigned. Now I'm left with the Bible and the Holy Spirit (LOL! Praise God!). And what I've found is that a significant portion of what I once represented in official capacities doesn't hold water except within the system I sold out to. I may still hold membership in the SDA church, and I may still hold credentials to pastor and teacher, but they will expire eventually or be revoked (if I wanted to go back in, I'd have to make serious concessions with regards to Bible ONLY truth and accept the SDA creed again, which, of course, I cannot do!). But now I represent Christ alone! And I'm not afraid of disagreement, even from those I consider cyber-friends here! I think it's great. (And, of course, I'm not saying that you can't deal with disagreement from the unltra-conservative far-right of SDAism represented here! I know full-well that you can!)

The only reason I would vote for a split would be to eliminate those who wish to come in and USE the forum as a personal report-haven against those they disagree with. If they're going to disagree, they should do it on the boards. To quote a friend of mine, "If you [they] can't handle the heat, GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!".

If it could be enforced here that they not be allowed to fixate on their personal agendas to try and get certain posters removed or banned, then I say keep it all together and let the chips fall where they fall. The Holy Spirit is in complete control anyway. What do we have to fear? Whether they [ultra-conservative, far-right SDA's) like it or not, we're ALL members of the denomination.

My individual perspective. You don't even have to agree with me! I'm OK with that!

In Christ alone...

 

[tall73]

Is the problem reports? Or is the problem reports made due to theological disagreement?

I actually have no problem with Woob or anyone else reporting personal attacks.

 

[NightEternal]

Do you intend to use the name "Seventh-day Adventist" in any part of your new forum name?

If so then you are just moving the battle to a different hill.

They have no say in what name we use, as long as we have Progressive in the title. And they can bellyache until the cows come home about it, but the bottom line is that we have just as much claim to it as they do.

If they give us any grief over it, we deal with it accordingly and lock the troublemakers out.

 

[NightEternal]

If it could be enforced here that they not be allowed to fixate on their personal agendas to try and get certain posters removed or banned, then I say keep it all together and let the chips fall where they fall. The Holy Spirit is in complete control anyway. What do we have to fear? Whether they [ultra-conservative, far-right SDA's) like it or not, we're ALL members of the denomination.

Free, how would you enforce this on any practical level? Especially considering some mods have a Trad agenda themselves and do not consider us true Adventists? Doc's comments have made that abundantly clear. One mod even stated he cannot figure out why I am still in the church!

No, this is not working. It is a mess.

Split the forums.

 

[tall73]

It is not really my issue anymore, but if you want suggestions then mine would be to do the following:


Make a formal appeal with the names of your progressive members attached and then pm it to the Ecumenical team.

Express your desire to have

A. Your own moderators as you were promised
B. Your own status as a denominational area as you were promised.

Then whether you are in this section or not you will have addressed the main issues that you seem to be rasiing.

 

[freeindeed2]

Is the problem reports? Or is the problem reports made due to theological disagreement?

I have no problem with theological disagreement over sideline issues. In mainstream Christianity there is latitude for drawing different conclusions in areas that we are commanded NOT to condemn for (i.e. esteeming one day more holy than another, what we eat, what we drink, etc.).

So, yes, it is mostly the reports. And not even just the reports. I've seen this happen now more than once where someone who makes many reports shows up and changes the whole tone of threads and the whole forum. Discussion was moving along just fine, not too many flames or personal attacks (nothing that couldn't be handled within the thread), and then someone shows up and within a day dozens of reports have been made and it takes weeks to get back to discussing civily. That's what I'm mostly referring to.

I actually have no problem with Woob or anyone else reporting personal attacks.

Neither do I. But what he calls a 'personal attack' and what is one can be two different things. I've had around 20 or 25 reports made against me since he showed back up, but none of them for making 'personal attacks'. And how many reports were made against me in his interim? Maybe two...three. And those ended up just being posts moved or deleted because we're not allowed to call anything posted on the main forum into question.

My perspective.

In Christ alone...

 

[freeindeed2]

Free, how would you enforce this on any practical level? Especially considering some mods have a Trad agenda themselves and do not consider us true Adventists? Doc's comments have made that abundantly clear. One mod even stated he cannot figure out why I am still in the church!

No, this is not working. It is a mess.

Split the forums.

Whether there's a split or not, an individual poster should not be able to disrupt the forum and hold it hostage to their own agenda, myself included. If there weren't a clear pattern here and in other forums (outside the SDA forums), then I probably wouldn't have as strong of an opinion. It's not just the SDA mods that have been to the point of pushing for a ban. For those who were following what was going on in the appeals forum (when it was public), the reports forum (when it was public), and a couple of other forums, you know what I mean. For those whose experience has only been in the SDA forums then that's the limit of your perspective.

I wonder how many knew about the Moriah deal that went on outside of this forum?