Former Christian here :-)

[android17ak47]

Hello, I am a former Christian of 32yrs, more specifically, I was an Independant Fundamentalist Baptist, and even fell into mormonism for 2 years but for personal reasons I wont get into now I quit going and later realized the LDS faith was not for me and returned as an IFB.

Anyways, 3 years ago I ended up rejecting theism and no longer feel justified in believing in the supernatural. It started out with my rereading of the New Testament after I abandoned the interpretations of the scriptures I was taught by IFB, and thought that I would be guided by the holy spirit when rereading the NT for the first time with an open mind, remembering the verse "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of god that giveth to all men liberally, and abraideth not and it shall be given him.", so I prayed and asked god, even praying using the instructions Jesus gave, asking with my own words then saying the lord's prayer afterwards.

The results were, I read from Mathew 1:1 and by the time I read up to James 3 I felt that I had been deceived all my life by a false religion made up by men, and not by a god that is not the author of confusion because I was seeking an answer for what must one need to do to be saved, and reading through every passage concerning salvation up to James 3 both Jesus, Paul, and the disciples all preached conflicting versions for what folks should do to be justified/saved.

Anyways, I dont want to say anything to provoke a debate or argument here, I'm just giving a quick introduction about myself. Now almost 3yrs later I have learned too many facts about reality, both about this earth, human history, and the cosmos that the scriptures I used to believe and hold dear, look no more plausable than other cultural myths that we all know are purely manmade and not inspired by any divine entity.

I wanted to join this forum to have friendly discussions because I have many questions, and hoped I could ask and discuss some subjects so some highly educated Christians could shed some light on some things because this life we all have on earth is short, and at this point I see no reason to believe any religion's god or gods exist, and the eternal hell that is threatened by the christian doctrine is no longer a concern of mine, but I need to be sure about some things because if any one of us dies and suddenly wake up on another side of reality and find that we were wrong, especially if the truth ends up being a religion we don't practice and it's god is a vengeful one, well you know where I'm going.

Also, can someone tell me what I am suppose to do to have sufficient privileges to be able topost threads and post in threads? I have questions that are very important to me, and I really want to talk to folks here asap. Thanks.

 

[Sabertooth]

Hello @android17ak47 . What are hoping that Christian Forums can do for you?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Hi, welcome!

Quite a trip you've been on. It's true that higher criticism of the Bible likes to break it up and have no trouble finding inconsistencies. However, there are two problems with that: (1) They don't agree with one and another and the attempt to find a correct academic way of reading the Bible has failed miserably. (2) We always have to interpret Scripture in light of Scripture. Context is everything. Where I'm going with this is that there are no competing Gospel accounts in the Bible. This idea betrays a lack of understanding of what the Gospel is and its relation to God's Law. Paul and James are in perfect agreement, but they are talking about the same thing from different angles; Paul talks about justification, James talks about sanctification.

Anyway, I'm glad you're here and hope you find it helpful!

 

[bmjackson]

Hi there welcome!

You say you were a Christian for 32 years. Do you mean that you are 32 years of age? If not, would you mind sharing your conversion experience with us?

 

[Snoder]

Hello, I am a former Christian of 32yrs, more specifically, I was an Independant Fundamentalist Baptist, and even fell into mormonism for 2 years but for personal reasons I wont get into now I quit going and later realized the LDS faith was not for me and returned as an IFB.

Anyways, 3 years ago I ended up rejecting theism and no longer feel justified in believing in the supernatural. It started out with my rereading of the New Testament after I abandoned the interpretations of the scriptures I was taught by IFB, and thought that I would be guided by the holy spirit when rereading the NT for the first time with an open mind, remembering the verse "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of god that giveth to all men liberally, and abraideth not and it shall be given him.", so I prayed and asked god, even praying using the instructions Jesus gave, asking with my own words then saying the lord's prayer afterwards.

The results were, I read from Mathew 1:1 and by the time I read up to James 3 I felt that I had been deceived all my life by a false religion made up by men, and not by a god that is not the author of confusion because I was seeking an answer for what must one need to do to be saved, and reading through every passage concerning salvation up to James 3 both Jesus, Paul, and the disciples all preached conflicting versions for what folks should do to be justified/saved.

Anyways, I dont want to say anything to provoke a debate or argument here, I'm just giving a quick introduction about myself. Now almost 3yrs later I have learned too many facts about reality, both about this earth, human history, and the cosmos that the scriptures I used to believe and hold dear, look no more plausable than other cultural myths that we all know are purely manmade and not inspired by any divine entity.

I wanted to join this forum to have friendly discussions because I have many questions, and hoped I could ask and discuss some subjects so some highly educated Christians could shed some light on some things because this life we all have on earth is short, and at this point I see no reason to believe any religion's god or gods exist, and the eternal hell that is threatened by the christian doctrine is no longer a concern of mine, but I need to be sure about some things because if any one of us dies and suddenly wake up on another side of reality and find that we were wrong, especially if the truth ends up being a religion we don't practice and it's god is a vengeful one, well you know where I'm going.

Also, can someone tell me what I am suppose to do to have sufficient privileges to be able topost threads and post in threads? I have questions that are very important to me, and I really want to talk to folks here asap. Thanks.

If you are seeking truth, you don't need to worry.

The gods of vengeance and pettiness and stupidity are the gods people created in their own image instead of seeking the true God. God is not a person that acts out like people do. God understands all things and all possibilities and sees your core reality. God accepts you and all your flaws and wants to nurse you back to health by grace.

If you have been taught that God is some cruel, judgmental, arbitrary person, you ought not to believe in God. It sounds like your atheism is justifiable.

There is a real God.

Don't expect to find many highly educated Christians here though.

 

[android17ak47]

To all who replied.

Thank you for such a speedy response from all.

I currently am 35yrs of age. It was the conflicting guidelines to salvation that threw me off. What really struck me odd was that in Jesus's words in the gospels, he says that "for by grace are ye saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast...", and after so many instructions to various folks between the beginning of mathew up until James 2, instructions were given that pertained to works and others faith, but it was James 2:14-26 thatended my faith because in context, that entire passage strongly suggests that one can have faith, but without works to go along with the belief a man who stands before god will not be justified. The passage gives so many examples of how different folks were justified by their works and not just their faith, then blatantly out right states afterwards in verse 24, the context is revealed and I quote " Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.". This is in direct conflict with Ephesians 2:8,9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:, 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no question these instructions in both of these passages are in direct conflict with one another because Ephesians says it's faith only and not works that justifies a man, but james says by works a man is justified, not faith only.

Anyways, I didnt want to get into this with anyone because I have other questions I really want to ask that has nothing to do with bible contradictions. After this 3yr long journey as an atheist, I have done so much research on so many subjects, and of course various theologies and I know now that contradictions in a holy book doesnt mean that the god of that holy book doesn't exist because humans are capable of making errors, and holy books arent exempt from error, but in my studies I have questions that I fel are far more relevant than discussing and debating about errors. I hope veryone can respect that because I earnestly dont want to spend so much time here battling about things that are far from what I need to know. The proper sub-forums that my questions should be posted are restricted from me posting in them, at least thats what they say(insufficient privileges).

 

[rocknanchor]

There is no question these instructions in both of these passages are in direct conflict with one another because Ephesians says it's faith only and not works that justifies a man, but james says by works a man is justified, not faith only.

No more a difference than when the Apostle addressed some Christians as mature and other Christians as carnal babes in Christ.

Same here, we find ourselves at the foot of the cross as carnal babes without a peep to show our right to eternal life save for our confession. Herein is where you too to maintain conflict without even bringing out James because you have not agreed to His work for those He came to save who were yet dead in trespasses and sins.

Don't be drawn into this error. The initiation is real as is growth of the inner-man enabled by His gift of the Holy Spirit. In other words, Salvation - With & Without works!

 

[android17ak47]

If you are seeking truth, you don't need to worry.

The gods of vengeance and pettiness and stupidity are the gods people created in their own image instead of seeking the true God. God is not a person that acts out like people do. God understands all things and all possibilities and sees your core reality. God accepts you and all your flaws and wants to nurse you back to health by grace.

If you have been taught that God is some cruel, judgmental, arbitrary person, you ought not to believe in God. It sounds like your atheism is justifiable.

There is a real God.

Don't expect to find many highly educated Christians here though.

Well I have realized that if there is such a thing as a god or gods, the god as portrayed in the biblemost certainly does not exist, no more than gods made up like in greek mythology. It's obvious that whether it was the jews or canaanites who invented this "Yahweh" character, made quite a few of the same mistakes as theseother mythological gods we now brush off as myths. The stories about wars in the heavens, the nature of how the earth and the heavens above were constructed as depicted in genesis we now know is so far from the truth that many apologists will say they were metaphores but have no explainations for what these metaphores are or mean.

Too many shortcomings in these texts, and its these kind of mistakes and claims that conflict with the facts about this earth and whats above why we all classify things like I mentioned "greek mythology" as myths, yet the god that is depicted in the bible that is most famously known as "Yahweh/YHWH", or Jehovah can be interpreted as a real god despite the errors made by the few jews who supposably had the privilege of either talking/communicating with him that inspired the stories that were written.

I dont want to get deep on this subject because s many things I do have to say about this will be a bit too provocative and is going to give me a headache having to respond and rebut, and I dont want to debate with anyone here. My goal is to get the answers I need.

Anyways, can someone please tell me what I need to do to be able to start making threads in other areas in this forum? I'de be more than willing to kinda discuss things pertaining to the subject I want to talk about there. This thread was only meant to introduce myself, I asked not to start debates here and sme f the questions asked of me here are going to go somewhere I dont want to go, and I already probably said to much just in this reply. Thanks,

 

[android17ak47]

No more a difference than when the Apostle addressed some Christians as mature and other Christians as carnal babes.

Same here, we find ourselves at the foot of the cross as carnal babes without a peep to show our right to eternal life save for our confession. Herein is where you to to maintain conflict without even bringing out James because you have not agreed to His work for those He came to save who were yet dead in trespasses and sins.

Don't be drawn into this error. The initiation is real as is growth of the inner-man enabled by His gift of the Holy Spirit. In other words, Salvation - With & Without works!

I'de be willing to discuss this in a future thread I might make, but for now I honestly don't want to debate context. I have much to rebut in your reply. Just keep tabson my future posts and maybe we can talk more once I'm ready to bring this up in a full discussion. Thanks.

 

[rocknanchor]

I'de be willing to discuss this in a future thread I might make, but for now I honestly don't want to debate context. I have much to rebut in your reply. Just keep tabson my future posts and maybe we can talk more once I'm ready to bring this up in a full discussion. Thanks.

I most likely won't participate for as I too decided to follow His voice that said,

For God says, “At just the right time, I heard you.
On the day of salvation, I helped you.” Indeed,
the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.

(2 Corinthians 6:2)​

 

[bmjackson]

Hi thanks for answering. So you believe that you have been a Christian since around birth without a defining encounter with a living God some way along the line? Many people think they are Christians because of water baptism and run into trouble sometime because they have not had this life changing, heart stopping encounter and trying to make sense of it is impossible otherwise.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there,

Great introduction thanks...

Did you study Greek? Many of the apparent contradictions fade away when the original text is taken into consideration. In some cases also the cultural context throws light on what was meant. But mainly one should seek a 'macro' understanding in order to correctly interpret the 'micro' issues that arise.

For this reason I read nothing but scripture for over 5 years - no Christian books - just prayerfully reading and trusting for inspired understanding.

While I have university level study in many areas, nothing replaces the intended understanding of the author.

Getting your head around the bible is not an intellectual exercise. The Bible is designed to evade the understanding of any without child like faith and the humility to receive the truth.

 

[Phronema]

Anyways, can someone please tell me what I need to do to be able to start making threads in other areas in this forum? I'de be more than willing to kinda discuss things pertaining to the subject I want to talk about there. This thread was only meant to introduce myself, I asked not to start debates here and sme f the questions asked of me here are going to go somewhere I dont want to go, and I already probably said to much just in this reply. Thanks,

Welcome to CF, and I hope you find what you're looking for here.

I may be wrong, but depending on which sub-forums you are trying to post in you may need to have Christian selected as your religion versus Atheist. In order to change it I believe you'd have to enter a ticket.

Edit : You could maybe list yourself as a "Christian-seeker" as they're still considered Christian, and able to post in the sub-forums.

 

[android17ak47]

I most likely won't participate for as I too decided to follow His voice that said,

For God says, “At just the right time, I heard you.
On the day of salvation, I helped you.” Indeed,
the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.

(2 Corinthians 6:2)​

That's totally your decision to make. I really wish someone would include in their reply my request for help for what I need to do so I can start a discussion in other areas of this forum. If someone can help me with this I am willing to at least start a couple discussions that may interest some of you. Could somebody please help me? I did search around a bit to find an answer in some sticky threads, and other things posted by admins but cant find any instructions for what all I need to do so I can have privileges to start topics in the appropriate subforums.

 

[Phronema]

That's totally your decision to make. I really wish someone would include in their reply my request for help for what I need to do so I can start a discussion in other areas of this forum. If someone can help me with this I am willing to at least start a couple discussions that may interest some of you. Could somebody please help me? I did search around a bit to find an answer in some sticky threads, and other things posted by admins but cant find any instructions for what all I need to do so I can have privileges to start topics in the appropriate subforums.

My post above should offer an answer to what you're looking for.

 

[android17ak47]

Welcome to CF, and I hope you find what you're looking for here.

I may be wrong, but depending on which sub-forums you are trying to post in you may need to have Christian selected as your religion versus Atheist. In order to change it I believe you'd have to enter a ticket.

Edit : You could maybe list yourself as a "Christian-seeker" as they're still considered Christian, and able to post in the sub-forums.

I wanted to start a topic in this subforum Philosophy

 

[Oldmantook]

To all who replied.

Thank you for such a speedy response from all.

I currently am 35yrs of age. It was the conflicting guidelines to salvation that threw me off. What really struck me odd was that in Jesus's words in the gospels, he says that "for by grace are ye saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast...", and after so many instructions to various folks between the beginning of mathew up until James 2, instructions were given that pertained to works and others faith, but it was James 2:14-26 thatended my faith because in context, that entire passage strongly suggests that one can have faith, but without works to go along with the belief a man who stands before god will not be justified. The passage gives so many examples of how different folks were justified by their works and not just their faith, then blatantly out right states afterwards in verse 24, the context is revealed and I quote " Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.". This is in direct conflict with Ephesians 2:8,9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:, 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no question these instructions in both of these passages are in direct conflict with one another because Ephesians says it's faith only and not works that justifies a man, but james says by works a man is justified, not faith only.

Anyways, I didnt want to get into this with anyone because I have other questions I really want to ask that has nothing to do with bible contradictions. After this 3yr long journey as an atheist, I have done so much research on so many subjects, and of course various theologies and I know now that contradictions in a holy book doesnt mean that the god of that holy book doesn't exist because humans are capable of making errors, and holy books arent exempt from error, but in my studies I have questions that I fel are far more relevant than discussing and debating about errors. I hope veryone can respect that because I earnestly dont want to spend so much time here battling about things that are far from what I need to know. The proper sub-forums that my questions should be posted are restricted from me posting in them, at least thats what they say(insufficient privileges).

Don't be discouraged. One can easily get confused by apparently contradictory scriptures which can easily cause a person to doubt or lose faith. However, since Scripture never contradicts itself, it is up to us to study and find out for ourselves how the scriptures instead of contradicting each other, rather complement and affirm each other. Such is the case with James and Ephesians which you pointed out.
We are indeed saved by faith and not by our works as our good works prior to salvation account for nothing. Only the shed blood of Jesus saves us. However, notice in Eph 2:10 that we were also created to do good works. Our good works after we were saved, which we were created to do are the evidence that we are saved. That is why James stated faith without works is dead and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Our good works in the Christian life are the outward evidence of genuine inward faith; like two sides of the same coin. Instead of faith + works = salvation. Faith = works = salvation. Hope that clears it up some.

 

[Phronema]

I wanted to start a topic in this subforum Philosophy

Edit !

That particular forum has been closed for replies, and is read only at this point.

I'd try starting a thread in one of the Outreach sub-forums.

Outreach | Christian Forums

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Hello, I am a former Christian of 32yrs, more specifically, I was an Independant Fundamentalist Baptist, and even fell into mormonism for 2 years but for personal reasons I wont get into now I quit going and later realized the LDS faith was not for me and returned as an IFB.

Anyways, 3 years ago I ended up rejecting theism and no longer feel justified in believing in the supernatural. It started out with my rereading of the New Testament after I abandoned the interpretations of the scriptures I was taught by IFB, and thought that I would be guided by the holy spirit when rereading the NT for the first time with an open mind, remembering the verse "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of god that giveth to all men liberally, and abraideth not and it shall be given him.", so I prayed and asked god, even praying using the instructions Jesus gave, asking with my own words then saying the lord's prayer afterwards.

The results were, I read from Mathew 1:1 and by the time I read up to James 3 I felt that I had been deceived all my life by a false religion made up by men, and not by a god that is not the author of confusion because I was seeking an answer for what must one need to do to be saved, and reading through every passage concerning salvation up to James 3 both Jesus, Paul, and the disciples all preached conflicting versions for what folks should do to be justified/saved.

Anyways, I dont want to say anything to provoke a debate or argument here, I'm just giving a quick introduction about myself. Now almost 3yrs later I have learned too many facts about reality, both about this earth, human history, and the cosmos that the scriptures I used to believe and hold dear, look no more plausable than other cultural myths that we all know are purely manmade and not inspired by any divine entity.

I wanted to join this forum to have friendly discussions because I have many questions, and hoped I could ask and discuss some subjects so some highly educated Christians could shed some light on some things because this life we all have on earth is short, and at this point I see no reason to believe any religion's god or gods exist, and the eternal hell that is threatened by the christian doctrine is no longer a concern of mine, but I need to be sure about some things because if any one of us dies and suddenly wake up on another side of reality and find that we were wrong, especially if the truth ends up being a religion we don't practice and it's god is a vengeful one, well you know where I'm going.

Also, can someone tell me what I am suppose to do to have sufficient privileges to be able topost threads and post in threads? I have questions that are very important to me, and I really want to talk to folks here asap. Thanks.

OP if you get a chance please check out these threads :

Everything that has brought me closer to Christianity in General has brought me closer to Orthodoxy

and

Secular Non Biblical Sources For The Existence Of The Lord Jesus Christ in History



.

 

[android17ak47]

Edit !

That particular forum has been closed for replies, and is read only at this point.

I'd try starting a thread in one of the Outreach sub-forums.

Outreach | Christian Forums

Could you link me to the appropriate forum where I can discuss a topic about the existence of the god yahweh? I have questions to ask monotheists about whether this god exists or not. Thank you.