Formal Debate: The Bible Is Not the Inspired Word of God

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Jan 26, 2012
Marital Status
I must apologize to my opponent and to the forum. BLTN is obviously correct as to my apparent plagiarizing (I just read the article), either from this article, or from its original writer somewhere else in the past. These items were in my notes so I have since corrected the problem there to prevent future accusations. So I apologize for this mistake however there is nothing incorrect in the statements made.

We have reviewed that the bible's cosmology is flawed. I don't think Pshun2404 is going to be able to explain away the raqia that is attested to in both Genesis and in Job.

Raqia can be translated as expanse or division which it is, so your hard as a rock dome theory is absurd.

As for discrediting Hershal Shanks, the Israeli Supreme court overturned the 1993 decision against him in 2000 (so why didn’t you include that?).

The James box, in 2003 the final verdict did not decide authenticity, it was against the buyer for illegal purchase of Antiquities (though the IAA does it and suffers no recourse). All parties were cleared of the accusation of forgery.

Some believed the last phrase to have been added later, but scientific investigations confirmed it was not. The same ancient patina was found deep in the inscriptions implying to me that someone was trying to rub this last phrase off. Besides the preliminary work of Worthington which the court case would not consider, in 2005, Geo-microbiologist Wolfgang E. Krumbein, determined in light of the evidence, that the IAA's decision "...originate from a series of errors, biases, mistaken premises, use of inappropriate methodology, mistaken geochemistry, defective error control, reliance on unconfirmed data, disregard of information such as the cleaning and preservation actions performed…” and so on. (Preliminary Report: External Expert Opinion on three Stone Items, Carl von Ossietzky University of Oldenburg, 2005). And in another study in 2013, the finding was repeated and once again confirmed (Rosenfeld; Feldman; and Krumbein, "The Authenticity of the James Ossuary", from the Open Journal of Geology 4 (3): 69–78. 2014.). However, this type of dialogue is exactly what I had hoped to avoid and find myself falling into the game of responding to your many already dealt with prejudices, that avoid taking into account all the evidences.

Much of near and middle east Archaeological finds were not motivated by the Bible, but have confirmed or implied the accuracy of it as a historically reliable source, and then admittedly because of its ability to give fairly accurate descriptions, its passages and statements have been used to motivate many digs and subsequent finds. For example, the archaeological findings of Sukenik (a secular Jew) which helped confirm what some 1st century Jerusalem citizens thought about Jesus was totally unexpected and unsolicited (he does not favor or wish to confirm Christianity), but on the other hand, the work of Baggatti, which likewise confirms this opinion of His being believed to be Lord, Messiah, and more, was Biblically motivated (but because he went looking for evidence, that does not change the facts of what was found). His team also uncovered Mary, Martha, Simeon, Ciaphas, etc.! So again the spade does not lie, men do…one cannot discount either man’s efforts and discoveries, just because one was or was not a Christian…that would simply be bigotry and prejudice.

Being a person who all their life was scientifically oriented and entirely secular politically, you must know that trusting the Bible was the furthest thing from my mind. But when it became understood that there was a challenge offered us therein…like engaging an SOP for an experiment…I concluded that if the promises made therein were true, then if I followed these instructions I should be able to reach the same conclusions of others who engaged this experiment before me. For the majority of those who do, the personal results are confirmed. Since at that time (my late twenties and early thirties) I had tried many systems of personal development and “God” seeking (and found some to be very beneficial to my attitude and health), I found that only here, in the Bible, the exact benefits and experiences promised therein were produced. The conclusions of the clear majority are the same. Now in combination with the other realizations previously mentioned, how could I come to any pother conclusion…the odds are again against such an outcome if it were simply an invention of men? Now re-read the first three of four threads and do the math…it has been fun and I suppose the peanut gallery would say you are the winner and that is fine with me as winning was never my intent. My intent was only to provide evidence for inspiration. But I will say this…of the standard 101 alleged Bible contradictions I have only seen one that was never answered satisfactorily to me. It was interesting BLTN and anytime (as previously invited) I would address any one of these personally to the best of my ability, but then I have no sheepskin to wear, so if you are interested in the responses of a simple humbled man we can discuss these one at a time.

In His love
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Unapologetic Apologist
Dec 8, 2007
Marital Status
BlueLightningTN asked me to place an addendum; as per his request:

Although I still have major concerns about the bible, I have had a change of heart on some things. Please <know> that I believe in a loving God and finding truth wherever it is found.
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