Formal Debate - Rock-N-Roll is Dangerous to Every Society

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Stipulations:

1. Participants in this debate will be The Cadet (who will open this discussion) taking the position that there is nothing harmful about Rock-N-Roll and TheyCallMeDave who will be arguing that it is very dangerous to society.
2. This debate will consist of three alternating rounds (total of three posts for each opponent).
3. The maximum size of each post will be 2500 words.
4. Maximum time between posts will be 7 days.
5. Quotes from outsides sources will be allowed; but Christian Forums Copyright rule of 20% applies.
6. All other rules of CF remain in effect.
7. Start date can be any time within the next 7 days.

A Peanut Gallery for this debate can be found here:
Formal Debate-Peanut Gallery Thread-Formal Debate - Rock-N-Roll is Dangerous to Every Society

 

[The Cadet]

Where to start...

Well, perhaps the first thing to do is harken back to the last "TheyCallMeDave" debate; because most of the same things still apply. We are once again dealing with Dave making a bold claim ("X is dangerous to society"), then insisting that his opponent make the first post and argue the opposite position without it being clear what the objection they're supposed to be arguing against is. But what the heck, I'm here already, so let's talk turkey.

Rock and roll is a genre of music roughly defined by an approximate rhythmic structure and instrumentalism: guitars, bass, drums, vocals, and occasionally keyboards. The rhythm is typically quite basic, normally allowing for 3/4, 4/4, and 6/8. Typically more complex rhythms (5/4, 7/4) are considered the territory of other genres, but there are exceptions, and what is typically considered important is the ability to tap one's foot to it - Spoonman has segments in 7/8, 6/8, and 4/4, but it is still relatively easy to dance to once you know the song.

I can probably stop right there, as the genre, as classically defined, is so broad as to encompass most modern music of the last few years. In fact, the definition is so vague as to be virtually meaningless. Rock music encompasses an incredibly broad spectrum of music: from the simplicity of early Elvis to the complex songwriting of Genesis; from the profanity and godlessness of The Sex Pistols to the pseudo-gospel of bands like Skillet or Disciple; from the pounding brutality of Deep Purple to the soft sounds of Yes; from the prose of "Squonk" to the idiocy of "Something in her mouth". Unless one is determined to condemn most music written after the 1950s, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what case one could possibly make.

However, I have been asked to make a case as to why rock music is "beneficial", which is a bit like demonstrating that any recreational or artistic activity is beneficial: it's about our enjoyment of it. If I enjoy listening to The Sex Pistols and you do not, so long as I do not infringe upon your rights by playing it so loudly that you cannot avoid listening to it as well, then what we have is a net gain in happiness. I am happier, and you don't have to care. If you do care, you're probably the kind of obnoxious moralizer who thinks that the Columbine shooting could have been avoided if only those poor innocent kids hadn't been given a murder simulator (and are, by the way, completely wrong).

What about possible negative effects on society? Well, I'm not aware of any, which is why it's such a bizarre request for me to speak first in this debate. But whatever Dave brings up must, of course, be measured against the power Rock holds as an equalizer and a motivator. Rock allows us to rally people, to bring attention to injustice, or the critique unjust social structures. Rock and Roll was there in the 70s during Vietnam, offering powerful critiques of the war with songs such as "Child in Time" or "Imagine". Rock and roll was there in '03, when we went to war with Iraq, with songs like "Baghdad" or "March of Death". Rock was a factor in the civil rights movement, serving not only as a voice for the voiceless but also a rallying point - both white and black Americans couldn't get enough of Chuck Berry and Jimi Hendrix, and influential figures like Bob Dylan sung about injustices. Throughout virtually every social movement, Rock has been the music of the little guy, of the counterculture (just ask Frank Zappa!), of the voiceless. And that's an incredibly useful and important thing.

So yeah. As said, there's not really any point in me opening here, as the question isn't "justify rock and roll's continued existence", but rather "is rock and roll dangerous". It covers such a broad spectrum of musical themes, lyrical themes, and such a huge span of time, you might as well talk about how "World Music" is dangerous; it's simply not a useful descriptor.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Traditionally, the Person who holds a positive position on an issue goes first while the person holding a dissending / negative position goes next. Its petty that you raised this argument because we each get to go 3 times and you will have plenty of opportunity to establish your case and to refute mine.

Im floored that you are not aware of the danger and murders committed in American society traced back to the music and messages coming from Satanic-glorifying Rock Bands and the like , so Ill be bringing this in sharper focus during my second response ; this first text will concentrate on Satan and how he uses Christ-demeaning / Satan-glorifying thru the Pawns of Music and the greater overall American Mass Media ----- it is no other than a marketing of an evil agenda most are oblivious to.

Since the beginning of time, Satan and his Army have been planning ways to keep people at a great distance from God our Creator and his love for us. The chief purpose is to get people into a Godless place of torment called Hell., forever., and to have them suffer with never ending regret for choices made while on earth. Bad choices repeatedly.

I trust that my Debate Opponent doesn't view Satan as some sort of mythological figure adorned in a red jumpsuit complete with spiked horns, needing much dental work, and oversized eyes... for this would not only contradict what the Bible says of him but fly in the face of his very real persona daily exhibited thru a personal relationship of countless satanic Worshippers, concerts dedicated to the homage of him , desiring an eternal place within his confines for power, and specific promotion of immoral lifestyles that he deems permissible culminating in the ruin of so many . Satan is a very real Entity although non-coporial and has gained great power over a vast populous whos mantra is 'I don't care, just give me fun and give it to me now'. Backing this up is a popular Satanist of decades gone by whereby his iconic figure still appears on many album covers , CD covers, and song lyrics ... the debauched Mr. Alister Crowley. (Heres what Satanism did for Crowley, now one of modern Rock Bands greatest idols : http://listverse.com/2012/09/22/10-facts-about-the-great-beast-aleister-crowley/). So let us treat Satan as having much power and deceit over the masses and instrumental toward the building of reprobate minds .

These are the resumes of dedicated Satanic Rock Bands but it doesn't stop there, not by a very long shot. Satans influence extends to the soft rock culture and most recently the Hip Hop culture --- if the lyrics don't specifically glorify Satan/ denounce the person and calvary work of Christ to be saved from Ones sins ... then it strongly encourages immoral sex, teen sex, disobedience toward authority incl. parents, exhibitionism , dressing inappropriately, boys groomed to be sexual predators and girls groomed to be available Tramps neatly packaged by our Mass Media ---Football Halftime shows are even replete with inappropriate contentographic gyrating, thrusting, and hand to genital contact to a seduced audience . And for all this we as a Society rewards these Bands and Divas with much notoriety and multiple hundred-millionaire status.

The moral squalor just from the Rock/Hip Hop music scene is truly incalculable---at least to those who still care (which is dwindling rapidly especially with professed Christians). .

End of post 1. Next post of mine will give very specific instances of how Rock Music has killed or increased the incarceration rate .

Dave

 

[The Cadet]

I don't believe in Satan. I also am not convinced that the version of satan you describe is contained within most mainstream Christianity, and I'm quite convinced he makes an absolute mockery of the problem of theodicy. How could we possibly stand a chance to live a good life if we have a supernatural being with nearly endless power faced up against us?

I'd really prefer not to get into the specifics of Satan and Christian theology, because:
A) I do not believe in Satan,
B) I seriously doubt you are capable of demonstrating Satan's existence, and
C) At no point was belief in Satan or the Bible considered a prerequisite for this debate.

Indeed, if your main argument is "Rock and roll is Satanic", then I'm left wondering if you read my post above, as I'd really like to know what's allegedly satanic about drums, guitars, bass, vocals, and a steady beat. Unless you're willing to clarify that you mean something different by "rock and roll" than just the general field of music, or unless we're speaking about specific acts and trying to draw an absurdly vast overgeneralization, I'm rather at a loss as to what your point is. What, individual bands glorify satan? You don't say! There are folk song, country songs, and indeed songs in virtually every genre that are explicitly satanic. And given how broad you've thrown that net, to include not just songs explicitly glorifying Satan but anything that doesn't seem to fit with traditional Christian values of chastity and self-repression (indeed, you seem to be objecting to having fun in general!), I suspect we could find examples of Gospel that "glorifies Satan".

As for Mr. Crowley, you provide no citation for the "many" covers, titles, and lyrics he appears in. I am only aware of a few, and a short trip through google has provided very few other cases. He's on the cover of the Sgt. Peppers album, along with countless other political figures, both good and bad. He's named in the lyrics of "Mr. Crowley". Where else does he appear? The guy on the cover of "Dangerous" is P.T. Barnum. And for the record, that song, "Mr. Crowley"? Check out the first verse:

Mr. Crowley, what went on in your head?
Oh, Mr. Crowley, did you talk to the dead?
Your life style to me seemed so tragic
With the thrill of it all
You fooled all the people with magic
Yeah, you waited on Satan's call

​

Notice anything? "Your lifestyle to me seemed so tragic"... This is not a song glorifying the man, this is a song pitying him. It's dripping in symbolism, but the bits that are undeniably clear are the parts where he pities Crowley. And if we look to interviews with the actual artist:

Bob Daisley, who was the bass player on the album, wrote some of the lyric for this song. In our interview with Daisley, he explained: "I wanted to look at the darkness and question Aleister Crowley. 'Aleister, what were you thinking?' You know. All this darkness and negativity. So that was a snag that I put on it."
​

So yeah. Beyond that, I can't find a whole lot of reference to the man in rock culture, and you did not provide very many examples.



Not that it matters, though; you are, again, drawing a crass oversimplification of an incredibly broad genre of music. You named very few examples (actually: almost no examples), but allow me to name a counterexample. Would you kindly point out the "satanic influence" in the song Fire and Rain? That song is one of the all-time classic rock ballads. Or how about "White Room"? Or "Squonk"? Or "All Along The Watchtower"? Or "Ramble On"? Or, and this is one of my personal favorites, "Cliffs of Dover"? And for anyone too lazy to look it up. Cliffs of Dover is an instrumental. There are a lot of very famous instrumental pieces in Rock and Roll - "YYZ", "La Villa Strangiato", "Jessica", Most of Yngwie Malmsteen's catalog, pretty much the entire subgenre of "Shred"... Somehow, Satan has snuck into the riffs of these songs! Repent, sinners!



Yes, sexuality is a prominent theme in quite a few songs. But it typically serves a deeper motive. No, not Satan. Freedom. A lot of rock and roll, particularly in the heyday of the late 60s and 70s, was focused around freedom and attempts to break with the stifling cultural norms of the time. And when we take "Satan" out of the picture (as said, I don't believe in Satan), it becomes exceedingly hard to make the case that even this is immoral. I'm not convinced that freedom in one's sexuality is immoral or wrong. At no point in the run-up to this debate was it made clear that we were arguing from a biblical view of morality. If you want to enforce that, that's a whole other can of worms we can open up, and ill-suited for such a debate. But does that really get us to "dangerous for society"? You haven't even started to make your case for that.

But even if we take that as a given, we're talking about individual artists and songs. Not the entire genre. That's a generalization we simply cannot make. Strip out everything with "satanic" or "immoral" content, and you know what? Most of the rock and metal in my music library is still there.

And finally, I feel the need to point out that Beyonce and Katy Perry are not rock acts.

Given that this is my second post, and I still have little to no idea what your argument is or how you intend to support it, could I please ask that you provide a bit of content in your next post? This is why I complained in the first post (and others will back me up) - you are the one making a claim, and yet you expect me to start by debunking the claim you haven't made yet. I was hoping to start with basic generalities, and then respond to your first post, but your first post was virtually content-free - an introduction with very little actual meat, claims with little to no basis, and an appeal to "satan" in the most absurd terms. For your next post, could you maybe present an argument? There's no point in drip-feeding in a formal debate like this. If this is about an honest and earnest exchange of ideas, there is no point in waiting to bring up your strongest points.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Ill address your points, then move into precisely how RocknRoll music (soft rock,hard rock,classic,heavy metal, hip hop) has and IS continuing to cause havoc in western societies especially , around the world. :

1. The truth about Satan and his unseen army of Demons is from The Bible , from what Jesus taught about this destructive unseen world of evil and the occult , and the quasi-accuracy we receive from the Rock Music culture itself emphasized in the very lyrics of todays music Performers. Evil in our world cannot be adequately explained apart from a Causal Agent at work in a persons/ groups Mind. It doesn't matter what you don't want to believe in --- you have freewill choice to do so just like I may not believe it required a Builder to build your home you dwell in, but the strong daily evidence proves conversely this fact ; this is one thing that Satanic Worshippers/Singers get right : That he in fact real and at work on the Earth in tangible ways.

2. abc layout : Satan will be referred to in this debate because he is the catalyst behind so many of todays Rock Bands today, that Satan has become the big white Elephant in the room , he is honored in concerts , he is proselytized to the many thousands/millions of concert-goers / Listeners around the world, and his main thrust of 'steal,kill,and destroy' lives have been acted out in accordance to the many manipulative lyrics and antics on stage ....and that there is great impending reward once the Decieved experience him in eternity. Satanism was not ruled out for this debate by either you or myself.

3. Its not so much the instruments that are satanic but how they are used with lyrics to get a powerful deceiving message out ; frankly, the guitar 'playing' we find in heavy metal Bands represent total confusion thru an endless conglomeration of sheer undisquishable noise of confusion --- the Guitarist could play most of the chords grossly incorrect yet to the Hearers caught up in the stupor of the moment , it simply wouldn't matter.

4. Aside from Ozzy Osbournes rendition of the song 'Mr. Crowley' having lived a tragic life, he nails it on the head that Crowleys influences with the occult and Satanism eventually brought him to ruin. Crowley is to satanic bands what Jesus praise n worship songs are to Christians with one very obvious stark difference. Crowley has been the influence for many Bands thruout the generations --- he is the epitomie of anarchy with his famous mantra of 'Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law' only with modern bands its been nicely repackaged to make rebellion look so good,not to worry about morals,and get all the fun you can now before you party in Hell with its Door Keeper.

5. If you dont wish to appeal to biblical morals, then perhaps you could present a higher form as the benchmark for our standard ; I see from your profile page that you give homage to Exodus 21 which are moral laws from God ,so, perhaps inwardly, you see Christian morals and ethics as something important and to work toward (?)

5.a. 'Freedom' is not something to be cherished when its used for bad and harming of others nor is the term proper to use to disparage absolute moral laws designed for ones safety and protection which is needed for a civil society. The Founding Fathers of America didn't have in mind inappropriate content, profanity, sexual hedonism, and the like when they wanted freedom for this country. Twisted 'freedom' is nothing more than
hypocritical intolerance ; would you mind if someone wanted the freedom to take your money so he could enjoy his life a little bit more ? Would it kick in that there are absolute morals based on your REaction to the impropriety ?

6. Sexual Hedonism constantly crammed into minds will be covered in my next post.

7. Beyonce, Perry, Madonna , Spears , etc... are thrown into the mix for their messages of rebellion, sexual hedonism, general immorality , exhibitionism, and inappropriate contentographic stage acts earn them the title of luring Sirens especially to the deceived younger population .

8. I gave you ample content for you to work with in the above post of mine , and plenty more in this post thus far. Perhaps when a person is in an automatic denial mode for the sake of maintaining the status quo , it becomes difficult to refute truth . I also realize as the Bible reports, that, unless one has a spiritual mind in Christ that they are incapable of distinquishing reality from slick counterfeit packages of marketing for consumption so I shall cut you some slack here.

9. Im not concerned about what 'people think ' regarding this debate , for, I don't live for the applause of men, but for God . All else is only subjective opinion usually due to seedy lifestyle choices One wishes to pursue.

I don't want to go over my allotted text content in this post , so, ill conclude with a few examples of Rock Music destruction in more recent times followed by more in my next post.....

Examples :

A. The Columbine High School massacre in Colorado, USA some 10 years ago now, were carried out by 2 Teenager , Kliebold and Harris) who had a steady diet of Heavy Metal Bands that encouraged thru their lyrics suicide, gross rebellion, the elimination of authority While listening to one particular German Heavy Metal Band they went about carrying out the exact lyrics that was feeding their evil frenzy. (German Band name upon request)

B. Many worshippers of Osbourne have been found dead with the song 'Suicide' on CD or album still in the music player or on the floor next to their bodies. Google it.

C. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et40kj2mDg4 . Watch this short clip how Rock Bands promote black magic, occultism , hatred for Christ, mockery of the cross used to pay for their very sins , Gods character, promotion of immorality and anarchy , and homage to the Master manipulator.

Dave.

'The Road to heaven is narrow that few find, and wide is the door that leads to destruction (Hell)' -- Jesus Christ

 

[The Cadet]

A "short clip" is not 37 minutes long, Dave. It counts as "feature length" starting at around 40. But I did watch the first few minutes of it, and found that it brought up Marilyn Manson.

Marilyn Manson?!

The shock rocker?!

The person whose entire schtick and claim to fame is "let me be as shocking and repulsive as humanly possible"? The person who can thank his fame almost exclusively to people like you getting in a tizzy about his music?

The man is an entertainer who realized that what many edgy teenagers really want is something disgusting, something "wrong", something that violates the bounds of acceptable. Is it any coincidence that every element of his "satanism" can simultaneously be portrayed as a publicity stunt? If Christians hadn't thrown up so much free publicity from the pulpit and elsewhere, if they had just ignored him, the man wouldn't be an international superstar. But okay, if anyone on this list legitimately is a satanist, then it would be him.

But overall, I wonder - how can we tell the difference between those influenced by satan, those using these themes because they consider them close to them, and those using these themes just because they see it as part of their art? Hell, Satan, and Christian moralizing are all major issues in pop culture. There are virtually no works of, well, anything that are as influential as Dante's Inferno or the Bible in western culture. Is it any surprise that such themes are popular within music?

So let's take a band like The Jimi Hendrix Experience. These guys are clearly not "good Christians", as evidenced by songs like "Foxy Lady" or "Voodoo Chile" or "Fire". Hendrix claimed at points to be Christian, and at other points that "Music was my religion". So... Was he a satanist? Did he sell his soul to the devil? Or did he simply promote freedom and oppose oppressive "moral majority" thinking? I don't know. And I get the feeling that neither do you.

Similarly, Led Zeppelin. Now there's a band you could make a case for. They actually were big fans of Crowley, Jimmy Page having bought his house, and their music making reference to his works and being covered in occult symbols. But were they satanists? And if they were, did they sell their soul to the devil for fame and fortune? I don't know. And again, I'm fairly certain you don't either. You can assume, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

Beyond that, the argument just becomes absurd. Apparently all it takes for a band to be satanic is for it to mention Satan, or claim that they are "going to hell" in some off-hand context. The Grateful dead writes about "going to hell in a bucket but at least I'm enjoying the ride" or "a friend of the devil is a friend of mine" and that's somehow evidence that the band is Satanic? No! Jerry Garcia is a professed Christian, and to put it bluntly, if you find that video in any way convincing, you should actually listen to the songs one time and you'll see that no, that is not what it is about. The former is about abusive love; the second is a warning about that kind of lifestyle.

This isn't the only case where either you or sources you cite completely butcher the meaning of a song. Case in point: "Suicide Solution". Osbourne has claimed that it's a song about the dangers of alcoholism, and this is blatantly obvious from even the most cursory reading of the lyrics. And no, Dave, it wasn't "many" people killing themselves to this. I could find exactly one such case. Maybe because the song is not about suicide!

Trying to draw a causative link between metal and columbine is more than a little bit ludicrous. There is simply no evidence to support it. That someone who committed an atrocity listened to metal is not evidence that metal influenced them any more than Hitler's vegetarianism is proof that not eating meat causes mass murder. To put it simply: there is no correlation between listening to metal music and committing mass murder. Countless people enjoy heavy metal; countless people do not commit mass murder. Metal music may contain violent themes, but so does TV, movies, and classic literature - there's more bloodshed in MacBeth than your average metal album.

But weren't we talking about Rock and Roll? You have to stretch the definition to the breaking point to make Rammstein, Marilyn Manson, or their ilk qualify as rock and roll.


I should probably work towards a closing statement here at some point.

Dave, in this debate, I thought we were going to be talking about how Rock and Roll poses a tangible threat to society. You even said this in your previous post:

5.a. 'Freedom' is not something to be cherished when its used for bad and harming of others

Well shoot, I thought the whole point of this debate was about this! About rock and roll being used for bad and harming others! But apparently, that's not the debate you meant to have, was it? No, you just wanted to assert with virtually no basis and no way to distinguish between artistic fakery, non-satanic esoteric beliefs, and legitimate demonic possession, that satan is behind rock music.

I expected you to make a case for the dangers of rock and roll, and for how it's a negative influence of society. You... didn't do that. Each time, you spent an entire week formulating your response, and with three tiny exceptions, you couldn't come up with anything beyond "Some rock musicians are satanists" or "Some rock musicians are bad influences", and you didn't do a particularly good job making that case either. Look, if you want to make the claim that somehow this music is bad and harmful, then you need to make that case. Not just assert it with nothing to back it up. Not just generalize from a few isolated cases.

If you want to claim that musicians are possessed by the devil, or have entered deals with the devil, then I expect you to support that claim with more than "they mention hell in their music" and "they said so in a publicity stunt" and quotes from them saying "I feel like I'm possessed on stage". I've been on stage before too, and let me tell you, the feeling is intoxicating. It's easy to feel swept up by the crowd, to feel "possessed" by the energy in the room. This is not evidence of demon possession. This is evidence that adoration can mess with our brains.

Fundamentally, claims like "they're possessed by the devil" or "they're working for the devil" are so vague and ill-evidenced as to be completely useless. I've heard people complain that everything from Harry Potter to He-Man to My Little Pony is "of the devil". Shakespeare could have been possessed by Satan for all we know. So could any number of other artists, including explicitly Christian ones like the boys from Skillet. There's no criteria for determining it, or for that matter for providing counter-evidence for it.

That's why I ask for secular evidence of the harm of rock and roll. And you've provided none - at least, none that is in the slightest bit convincing. All you've done is made conspiratorial accusations about a handful of artists, and not once have you addressed the bigger picture. You did nothing to counter my claim that you're cherry-picking; instead, you go on to cherry-pick not just individual bands, but individual lines from entire discographies, often out of context of the song itself, let alone the artist's entire works.

Could I be possessed by the devil? Is that what happened when I performed "School's Out" at my graduation ceremony? Was that the exhilarating, foreign feeling I had? I have no idea. You have even less of an idea - it could be that it was simply a natural human response, it could be that I misremember the event, or I could even be lying to you to up my "rocker cred" among the people of this forum. What I do know is that most people who listen to and enjoy rock and roll are Christians. Many artists who perform rock and roll are Christians. Christians who apparently disagree with your absurd interpretation of how the devil works. In any case, I will be more careful in the future to define the terms of the debate, as this has been a huge waste of time.



-----

Oh, one last thing. Of all the things you're wrong about, this one actually managed to tick me off, and I feel the need to address it. It's mildly off-topic to the debate, but as a metalhead myself, I feel the need to correct some common misconceptions.

3. Its not so much the instruments that are satanic but how they are used with lyrics to get a powerful deceiving message out ; frankly, the guitar 'playing' we find in heavy metal Bands represent total confusion thru an endless conglomeration of sheer undisquishable noise of confusion --- the Guitarist could play most of the chords grossly incorrect yet to the Hearers caught up in the stupor of the moment , it simply wouldn't matter.

Dave, as someone who spent several years trying and failing to learn to play heavy metal guitar, let me be very blunt. You're wrong. You're so wrong that it makes me want to ram my head against a wall. The idea that the chords and tones in Metal are "indistinguishable" or "confused"... Even when talking about some of the most atonal, heavy mainstream material - bands like Behemoth - there is still a clear melodic structure, and if you listen to those songs with an ear for metal, you will notice if they miss a note. Not just that, either - the music is incredibly hard to play. If it was just "random chaos" and nobody would notice the musicians failing, you wouldn't need to be such a virtuouso to play it. Indeed, heavy metal typically contains some of the hardest and most complex guitar playing in any genre. But I thought we were talking about rock and roll? While I realize some bands blur the line somewhat (Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple), none of them even come close to "noise of confusion". If you can't hear the melodies out of those bands, then you shouldn't be talking about music theory at all.

And you know what? I've heard bands (mostly local high-schoolers) that try to get away with burying the music in the noise, hiding their inability to play well by playing death metal. It never works. It sounds like crap, and the only people who would enjoy it in the first place are the very same people who can tell how uninspired, simplistic, and wrong it is.

Not that this has much to do with the debate, it just bugs me when people get metal this wrong.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Continuing on with examples of Rock and the destruction its brought upon the the Artists themselves as well as Nations at large .....



D Heres a brief list of Famous Rock Musicians that died promoting their own lyrics : Hendrix, Cobain,Joplin,Morrison ; with the exception of Cobain (gun suicide) ..... others overdosing on heroin . Afterall, the whole purpose beind RocknRoll = illicit sex/drugs/alchohol abuse / rebellion against authority and morals/and the development of an angry spirit within.



E. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et40kj2mDg4 This clip shows artists and their diversified spewed hatred that is brought to the stage influenced by Satan ,the opposite of love.






They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll Pt 2 of 5
www.youtube.com
Is it true that Satan is the master musician working behind the popular music scene and influencing our youth?



F. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=they+sold+their%ee%80%81+soul+for+%ee%80%80rock+n+roll&qpvt=they+sold+thier+soul+for+rocknroll&FORM=VDRE Here are multiple small clips discussing the destructive cause of rock music and high school shootings as well as possession by someone outside of themselves.Satanic influences takes its course in many directions ; the cleverist plan of the demonic and Satan is to get the person that satan isn't real , hes not at work in the world to cause harm , he gains ones loyalty bit by bit until the person buys into his lies and deception and before long, the Follower has had a heart transformation that even baffles oneself, friends, and ones parents. Then the Follower tries to justify the radical change by making excuses that immorality isn't so bad, seeing the world as dismal without purpose and no ultimate hope ; the satanic musicians are 'friends' and an idol unto the Follower.

G. It takes enormous denial and willful self deception to look at these above interviews by Rock Stars and hear what they stand for and conclude they aren't out to cause social destruction in society. Cadet may not believe in Satan but his metal Band associates come right out and demonstrate it on stage. If Cadet would willfully give up playing heavy metal music for 30 days he would soon find out the puppet techniques of Satan to restart the devotion to Satan again.

H. I would be remiss if I didn't bring up the hatred, lack of self control , and improper behavior at a concert of this venue ; we have something called a Mosh Pit at many Rock Concerts which has its Followers going into an uncontrolled stupor , forming a circle or semi circle , then forcefully running full speed at the person opposite you . So much for the 'love' toward each other. A Rock Concert is about the only music where one would be wise packing a full First Aid kit to handle the abrasions, multiple contusions, and bruises from a night of lunatic stupor as the band rages on . Further, what is this growling stuff that we hear from heavy metal musicians ? Is it just all part of the hard-hearted , nasty persona that these people get off demonstrating in public? What are they unhappy or ticked off about anyways ? Cant they just sing normally instead of shouting into peoples ears in the loudest meanest-sounding manner ? Or is this too 'artistry' ?!

I. How do we reward the Music Stars of our American Culture for polluting our minds and our youths minds with inappropriate content acts , foul language, the demeaning of women . assault on morals pretending they don't exist , promoting alchohol/heroin/cocaine to the point of suicide many times , having sex orgies and if pregnancy occurs...no prob....just visit your local Killing Mill. We reward such Music Divas and Bands by making them multi millionaires such as Madonnas $800,000,000.00 personal worth. If we lived in a caring and just nation, we would jail them with years of community service. Yet here we have Madonna giving a news report that she doesn't allow her own kids to watch tv yet its ok for her to brainwash other kids watching tv with her alluring sexual trash. Rock Music is a total assault on everything good , upright, moral, and ethical.

J. And although Osbourne is singing about the pitfalls of alchohol addiction, his popular song has 'Suicide as the only way out' he keeps admonishing. If you think our beloved Ozzy is free of guilt, why don't you talk to the parents who found their teenager who killed themselves with Obsborne paraphenelia next to his body ?

In closing, give a listen to this song of a couple decades past because its worship of our Creator , JESUS, and not Satan/demonic forces that you should be using your talents toward. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZGPDOxgJGs .

Finally, This debate thoroughly exposed the dangerous music culture of RocknRoll but to anyone who just has to stay in it ,no amount of evidence even viewing the Musicians themselves would ever be enough. Its called self deception to get what you want in life. Converesely, Cadet did not give support to Rock n Roll as something beneficial except that it is a fun thing for him . Lots of things might be fun to do , but not all is proper to do ---- unless your MO is one of I Don't Care which is the foundational thrust of RockNRoll.


Dave