Forgivness & Confession

[rugerfann]

Upon baptism, we are washed from original sin and are safe for a while. Once we reach an age however in which we are responsible and knowledgful and wise enough to tell the difference between good and evil, we have no excuse. We will be judged for any sins we commit after that point. People must now repent of each sin, and through a cleric is, while not necessary, a Scriptural way to do so. I myself go to a formal confession once a month.

We need not worry about sinning after being baptized. We are not montanists.

But we need to repent of all our sins; Jesus didn't die to excuse our sins.

Correct he Died to TAKE THEM AWAY.

Only sin you need to repent of is our unbelief in Jesus.Asking Christ to forgive what he already has isn't scriptural!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Read John 16:9 again!

John 16:9 "Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Where you going?

Forgive me...

 

[rugerfann]

WRONG AGAIN (I don't like pointing these things out to you... but your wandering around in the dark...)

Forgive me...

Your stuck in the Old covenant.(I hate to keep pointing this out as well)

 

[Dust and Ashes]

WRONG AGAIN (I don't like pointing these things out to you... but your wandering around in the dark...)

Forgive me...

Perhaps you should explore the sublime beauty that is the CF ignore list. I know it has made my message boarding much more enjoyable and profitable.

 

[rugerfann]

John 16:9 "Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Where you going?

Forgive me...

This is the only sin the Holy Spirit is convicting us of.Meaning all other sins have been paid for!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Your stuck in the Old covenant.(I hate to keep pointing this out as well)

O.K. I'll quit trying to help you now.... I feel I'm badgering (sp?) you...

God bless and keep you...

Forgive me...

 

[rugerfann]

O.K. I'll quit trying to help you now.... I feel I'm badgering (sp?) you...

God bless and keep you...

Forgive me...

It don't bother me.

I feel to many Churches Focus on the Old covenant and try to make the Old into the new.Applying the same rules just under diferant names.Legalism is what many call it.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It don't bother me.

I feel to many Churches Focus on the Old covenant and try to make the Old into the new.Applying the same rules just under diferant names.Legalism is what many call it.

Well, If it doesn't bother you... do you wish to continue?

I don't want you to feel badgered.... or belittled.

Only out of love do I point these thing out...

Forgive me...

 

[rugerfann]

Well, If it doesn't bother you... do you wish to continue?

I don't want you to feel badgered.... or belittled.

Only out of love do I point these thing out...

Forgive me...

Sure,I have a open mind!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

John 20:22-23

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Christ gave "The Church" the ability to forgive and to retain sins...

Forgive me...

 

[johnd]

The tense it is in is Aorist:

The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.

So it must be understood as:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have forgiven, to forgive and always to forgive us our sins, and to have cleansed, to cleanse, and always to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

and the tense of "confess" is:

Present

The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense.

Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English
will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed “historical presents,” and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present.

So, this is referring back to our confession of sins when we came to faith in Christ Jesus.

A similar statement would be in assuring troops of their basic training.

"If we underwent basic training, it will prove itself useful throughout our entire military career."

The example is speaking to troops who obviously went through basic or they would not be troops. The same is true of 1 John 1:9 being written to believers. Another way to say "confess our sins" is to "agree with God about our sins" so that "if" can best be understood as "since."

Note in 1 John 2:1 the phrase "if any man sins..."

The Bible clearly indicates all human beings with the exception of Jesus are sinners.

1 John 1:7 But if {since} we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we {otherwise} say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If {since} we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive {past present future} us our sins, and to cleanse {past present future} us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we {otherwise} say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The gist of the passage is that it is an assurance to believers about the security and totality of forgiveness, and a juxtaposition with not facing up to or owning up to our sin in the first place.

Remember:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Don't be ensared by ecclesiastical pharisee-ism.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

You will find that those who try to hold you to some code of baptism, tithing, confession, etc. are usually boasters about all that they do. It may even start out as a devotion to the Lord but it ends up as a duty to themself. Always. Why? Because man cannot save himself at all. He cannot even participate in his salvation. It's all up to Christ.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The tense it is in is Aorist:

The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.

So it must be understood as:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have forgiven, to forgive and always to forgive us our sins, and to have cleansed, to cleanse, and always to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

and the tense of "confess" is:

Present

The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense.

Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English
will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed “historical presents,” and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present.

So, this is referring back to our confession of sins when we came to faith in Christ Jesus.

A similar statement would be in assuring troops of their basic training.

"If we underwent basic training, it will prove itself useful throughout our entire military career."

The example is speaking to troops who obviously went through basic or they would not be troops. The same is true of 1 John 1:9 being written to believers. Another way to say "confess our sins" is to "agree with God about our sins" so that "if" can best be understood as "since."

Note in 1 John 2:1 the phrase "if any man sins..."

The Bible clearly indicates all human beings with the exception of Jesus are sinners.

1 John 1:7 But if {since} we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we {otherwise} say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If {since} we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive {past present future} us our sins, and to cleanse {past present future} us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we {otherwise} say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The gist of the passage is that it is an assurance to believers about the security and totality of forgiveness, and a juxtaposition with not facing up to or owning up to our sin in the first place.

Remember:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Don't be ensared by ecclesiastical pharisee-ism.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

You will find that those who try to hold you to some code of baptism, tithing, confession, etc. are usually boasters about all that they do. It may even start out as a devotion to the Lord but it ends up as a duty to themself. Always. Why? Because man cannot save himself at all. He cannot even participate in his salvation. It's all up to Christ.

Could you encapsulate this and tell me what you are trying to say in a nutshell?

Forgive me...

 

[Psalm 34:9]

james 4:17

Anyone then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins

(Study notes from the Zondervan NIV Life Application Study Bible)

4:17 We tend to thinkthat doing wrong is sin. But James tells us that sin is also not doing right. (These two kinds of sin are sometimes called sins of commision and sins of omission) It is a sin to lie; it can also bre a sin to know the truth and not tell it. It is a sin to speak evil of someone; it is also a sin to avoid him or her when you know he or she needs your friendship.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim to have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

(Study notes from the Zondervan NIV Life Application Study Bible)

Footnote1:9 If God has forfiven us our sins because of Christ's deathwhy must we confess our sins? In admitting our sins and receiving Christ's cleansing we are: 1)agreeing with God that our sin truly is sin and that we are wuilling to turn from it, 2) ensuring that we don't conceal our sins from him and consequently from ourselves, and 3) recognizing our tendancy to sin and relying on his power to overcome it.

We definitely have been forgiven of sin, but we need to ask forgiveness and repent of our ways. We cannot simply allow ourselves to be duped into once forgiven always forgiven. Forgiveness is there sure, but we need to ask for it. Nowhere does it say the only sin left is unbelief, otherwise what I just wrote out was a big waste of time.

If we continue to ask forgiveness of the same sin, sure we are living in doubt, but we need to clearly acknowledge that nobody is without sin.

 

[Godizluv]

I believe my admitting or confessing "sin" is only for my personal spiritual growth. I am already "saved" by the blood of the Lamb. Pride (the worst of the "seven") keeps me from growing spiritually (if I assume I know everything). If i want to continually grow in spirit, I will continually ask God to show me my sins (roadblocks to knowing God better). I believe we humans are all "works in progress". Of course, that great gift of free will always is in effect. That's the tricky part.

 

[rugerfann]

John 20:22-23

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Christ gave "The Church" the ability to forgive and to retain sins...

Forgive me...

I Don't see church anywhere in that passage.That was given to the apostles.

 

[rugerfann]

The tense it is in is Aorist:

The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.

So it must be understood as:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have forgiven, to forgive and always to forgive us our sins, and to have cleansed, to cleanse, and always to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

and the tense of "confess" is:

Present

The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense.

Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English
will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed “historical presents,” and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present.

So, this is referring back to our confession of sins when we came to faith in Christ Jesus.

A similar statement would be in assuring troops of their basic training.

"If we underwent basic training, it will prove itself useful throughout our entire military career."

The example is speaking to troops who obviously went through basic or they would not be troops. The same is true of 1 John 1:9 being written to believers. Another way to say "confess our sins" is to "agree with God about our sins" so that "if" can best be understood as "since."

Note in 1 John 2:1 the phrase "if any man sins..."

The Bible clearly indicates all human beings with the exception of Jesus are sinners.

1 John 1:7 But if {since} we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we {otherwise} say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If {since} we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive {past present future} us our sins, and to cleanse {past present future} us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we {otherwise} say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The gist of the passage is that it is an assurance to believers about the security and totality of forgiveness, and a juxtaposition with not facing up to or owning up to our sin in the first place.

Remember:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Don't be ensared by ecclesiastical pharisee-ism.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

You will find that those who try to hold you to some code of baptism, tithing, confession, etc. are usually boasters about all that they do. It may even start out as a devotion to the Lord but it ends up as a duty to themself. Always. Why? Because man cannot save himself at all. He cannot even participate in his salvation. It's all up to Christ.

Excellent!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I Don't see church anywhere in that passage.That was given to the apostles.

These Apostles were the first Bishops of "The Church". All of their gifts have been handed down (traditioned) from them....

Forgive me...

 

[rugerfann]

james 4:17

Anyone then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins

(Study notes from the Zondervan NIV Life Application Study Bible)

4:17 We tend to thinkthat doing wrong is sin. But James tells us that sin is also not doing right. (These two kinds of sin are sometimes called sins of commision and sins of omission) It is a sin to lie; it can also bre a sin to know the truth and not tell it. It is a sin to speak evil of someone; it is also a sin to avoid him or her when you know he or she needs your friendship.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim to have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

(Study notes from the Zondervan NIV Life Application Study Bible)

Footnote1:9 If God has forfiven us our sins because of Christ's deathwhy must we confess our sins? In admitting our sins and receiving Christ's cleansing we are: 1)agreeing with God that our sin truly is sin and that we are wuilling to turn from it, 2) ensuring that we don't conceal our sins from him and consequently from ourselves, and 3) recognizing our tendancy to sin and relying on his power to overcome it.

We definitely have been forgiven of sin, but we need to ask forgiveness and repent of our ways. We cannot simply allow ourselves to be duped into once forgiven always forgiven. Forgiveness is there sure, but we need to ask for it. Nowhere does it say the only sin left is unbelief, otherwise what I just wrote out was a big waste of time.

If we continue to ask forgiveness of the same sin, sure we are living in doubt, but we need to clearly acknowledge that nobody is without sin.

My point is,If we continualy ask him to forgive us.Then we don't believe he has(in a sense we are calling him a Liar).He said it is FINISHED at the cross.Why not believe him and thank him.I think its a insult to Christ to keep going back to the Day of Atonment!And thats exactly what many Christians do.
this is there attitude.
(Forget you Jesus,I don't believe you forgave me and the cross!I'm going to keep the day of atonment alive,and keep geting my sins forgiven!)

 

[rugerfann]

These Apostles were the first Bishops of "The Church". All of their gifts have been handed down (traditioned) from them....

Forgive me...

again,there is 0 Proof for this.Yes I want to see a letter from paul proving it!

 

[filosofer]

The tense it is in is Aorist:

The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.

So it must be understood as:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have forgiven, to forgive and always to forgive us our sins, and to have cleansed, to cleanse, and always to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Well, before making any further claims, you might want to reconsider what you have written about "aorist" because it is not complete nor accurate. While you make a case for one possible way to translate the aorist, that only applies to the Indicative mood. However, in 1 John 1:9 the three verbs are Subjunctives: one present Subjunctive, the other two aorist Subjunctives. Thus, your presentation and your attempt at translating is really overstating the point (your translation reflects more of a perfect Indicative than an aorist Subjunctive).

For the Infinitive and Subjunctive moods, the verb tells "type of action" (also Optative and Imperative moods). The present tense in each of these moods indicates continuous action, and the aorist indicates momentary action; but again the focus in the Subjunctive is on type of action. The combination of hINA ("in order to") with the subjunctive shows purpose, answering the question "why?" (or even equivalent to Infinitive of result).

The main verb, hOMOLOGWMEN which follows EAN, is also a subjunctive, but present tense. If the main verb of the sentence, which is hOMOLOGWMEN ("we confess"), is present tense, then the corresponding subjunctives (there are two aorist Subjunctives in the sentence) with hINA are translated as "may" (only in relative to the time of the main verb, not in the sense of doubt about it occurring).

Thus, a more accurate rendering would be along the lines:

"If ever we confess our sins, (he) is faithful and just in order that he may forgive our sins and may cleanse us from all unrighteousness."