Forgiving a Parent?

[theonelight]

I want to keep this very concise, or as concise as possible.

I have never had a great relationship with my mother. It's taken a turn for the worse after my father passed away 5 years ago.

My mother is known for being a blunt woman and rather sarcastic at times. Let's just say that she said some rather uncouth remarks about my father as he lay unconscious in the hospital, and then later over his body after he had passed.

I was quite shocked, as were several other members of my family. I was grieving and didn't quite know how to react.

I forgot about it until recently, when she said something that she has said several times already. She has occasionally joked about the timing of my father's death, which was just one day after my birthday.

She has occasionally joked: "your father died on your birthday!" with a big smile, laughing as if it were the funniest thing ever.

I have tried to ignore some of her behavior in the past, but this time, it really offended me. First of all, it's not true that he passed away on my birthday, although the timing was close. Second, her attempt to taunt me about the timing of the two occasions strikes me as cold and despicable.

I would never joke about something like this, and certainly not with a family member.

She was actually going to take me to lunch to celebrate my birthday, but after she said that, I declined and left.

I don't know when I will speak to her again. As a christian, I know I should forgive her, but I find it very difficult. I simply cannot trust her with sensitive personal issues of any kind.

 

[Senator Cheese]

That's a ridiculously harsh and mean way to speak about your father. I'm very sorry for your loss and even more sorry that your mother is behaving the way she is instead of helping you through the grieving process.

There might be a reason as to why she's behaving the way she is - sometimes, people have the tendency to bottle up anger and then vent it at the most insane of times. Sometimes, playing down a situation and drowning out feelings is the way people grieve over the loss of a beloved person.

Whatever the case may be in the situation at hand, loving those who hurt you the most in your darkest hour is what defines Christianity, no matter how hard that may seem. I would imagine it to be very difficult to forgive someone for the remarks she made, but we mustn't judge other people for their wrongdoings. We've all had times during which we behaved in despicable ways, be it for wrong reasons or even simply being overwhelmed with the situation at hand.

Obviously, you shouldn't look past any transgression and just "forget it", but refusing the birthday dinner should come off as a clear indicator that you won't stand for that type of language and that you were hurt. Hopefully, your mom will understand that these types of statements are hurtful and hopefully she'll adjust her ways accordingly.

 

[theonelight]

Thank you for your understanding.

What's ironic is that my mom considers herself to be a 'devout christian' 'born again' etc. She is a very active churchgoer and is basically known to everyone as 'the church lady.'

I have talked to her before about her behavior and how hurtful her behavior and comments are. She refuses to acknowledge what she's done and basically has told me: "that's just the way I am." She says she will never apologize for anything she has said or done.

I don't think I can have a relationship with her anymore.

 

[Senator Cheese]

That's very sad and depressing. I do hope she will come to her senses. Have you told her that this isn't an issue of character but an issue of behavior?

Noone will force you to stay with her if the comments are continuously hurtful. I don't think God would condemn you for it either. Forgiving her and being seperated from her are not contradictory.

Still, I hope you can work something out.
Blessings,
-Cheese

 

[Ana the Ist]

Thank you for your understanding.

What's ironic is that my mom considers herself to be a 'devout christian' 'born again' etc. She is a very active churchgoer and is basically known to everyone as 'the church lady.'

I have talked to her before about her behavior and how hurtful her behavior and comments are. She refuses to acknowledge what she's done and basically has told me: "that's just the way I am." She says she will never apologize for anything she has said or done.

I don't think I can have a relationship with her anymore.

Let her go. She treats you this way because she can. Once she realizes she can't, she either has to change or accept you aren't a part of her life. If she changes, it's for the better. If she doesn't, then all you've lost is someone who treats you poorly and wouldn't change to keep you in their life.

It's win-win.

 

[andy b]

maybe its your mothers way of coping if she has always been like that.As individuals we all deal with things different Ive never really got on with my dad but in his twi light years im making an effort to do the right thing regardless.In weakness we find stregnth

 

[quatona]

Understanding the psychological make-up of a person is often a good start to losing your grudges (I am assuming here that that´s what you desire).
Why she says such things to you and others I can´t explain, you can´t currently explain, and she herself probably doesn´t grasp that yet on a cognitive level, either.
If I were in your place, and if it were my desire to lose my grudges, my first and foremost goal would be to assist her in finding out what drives her. Empathically, without reproaches.

 

[keith99]

The Christian call to forgive is not a command to 'forgive and forget' and to thus leave yourself open to further harm.

It is rather to when harmed wish no ill results upon the one who harmed you. And going the second mile would be to wish the best for them.

Consider the case of someone you love having a drinking problem. Would 'forgetting' be the wishing the best for them? Emphatically no, it is instead a step toward enabling them to do more harm to others and themselves.

Your case seems far more difficult, but I see no reason for you to give your mother the personal information she would then abuse. That step at least is the same as not having an unlocked liquor cabinet there for a drunk,.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The Christian call to forgive is not a command to 'forgive and forget' and to thus leave yourself open to further harm.

It is rather to when harmed wish no ill results upon the one who harmed you. And going the second mile would be to wish the best for them.

Consider the case of someone you love having a drinking problem. Would 'forgetting' be the wishing the best for them? Emphatically no, it is instead a step toward enabling them to do more harm to others and themselves.

Your case seems far more difficult, but I see no reason for you to give your mother the personal information she would then abuse. That step at least is the same as not having an unlocked liquor cabinet there for a drunk,.

I agree with Keith, but I'd also like to add that it sounds like she needs some psychiatric help. My aunt started doing stuff that wasn't like her, making inappropriate comments, saying things that were horrible, and it turns out her change in attitude was a symptom of Pick's Disease, which took her life not long after.

 

[Gadarene]

Could have been an abuse situation. And I don't necessarily mean him abusing her either.

 

[theonelight]

Thank you all for your feedback. Instead of replying individually, I'd like to provide some further thought on her psychology and cultural makeup.

My mom tends to have an 'old country' mentality where the parents talk and children listen. However, she does not really differentiate between conversations which are constructive and verbal taunting and emotional abuse of a sadistic nature. It's her prerogative as a parent, she has told me.

My mom has a strong sadistic streak and a fascination with morbid topics, especially death and funerals. She tends to view this world and life as a temporary trial before moving on to a far better life in the afterworld. Understandable, but she is very insensitive to those who might be grieving. Fortunately for her, her snide remarks are only ever directed at family members. This way, she does not have to face the wrath of people who might actually question her behavior.

As an example, I was 'helping' her with a household repair (it was more of a command than a request). Some of the wood stacked above my head fell on me leaving me dazed. She began laughing heartily at the top of her lungs.

She also assumes (correctly) that no one is likely to mention her behavior outside of a family context, so she has no reason to fear judgement from others.

I should note that she is unfailingly polite and deferential to everyone, except to her own children.

Even though I attempted to write this as an attempt at clarification, I am just becoming more and more angry as I recall these events.

I think it's best for everyone that I keep my distance from her.

 

[Gadarene]

That sounds like the best plan alright. That kind of treatment isn't cool - do find someone to talk to about it (professionally, if necessary).

 

[keith99]

Thank you all for your feedback. Instead of replying individually, I'd like to provide some further thought on her psychology and cultural makeup.

My mom tends to have an 'old country' mentality where the parents talk and children listen. However, she does not really differentiate between conversations which are constructive and verbal taunting and emotional abuse of a sadistic nature. It's her prerogative as a parent, she has told me.

My mom has a strong sadistic streak and a fascination with morbid topics, especially death and funerals. She tends to view this world and life as a temporary trial before moving on to a far better life in the afterworld. Understandable, but she is very insensitive to those who might be grieving. Fortunately for her, her snide remarks are only ever directed at family members. This way, she does not have to face the wrath of people who might actually question her behavior.

As an example, I was 'helping' her with a household repair (it was more of a command than a request). Some of the wood stacked above my head fell on me leaving me dazed. She began laughing heartily at the top of her lungs.

She also assumes (correctly) that no one is likely to mention her behavior outside of a family context, so she has no reason to fear judgement from others.

I should note that she is unfailingly polite and deferential to everyone, except to her own children.

Even though I attempted to write this as an attempt at clarification, I am just becoming more and more angry as I recall these events.

I think it's best for everyone that I keep my distance from her.

Sounds like she also never does this when non-family is present.

That means she knows is it not acceptable behavior.

Also means you have a way to be safe, don't see her unless you have an 'outsider' with you.

 

[theonelight]

I should clarify that she is polite and deferential to everyone, but she is still abusive and argumentative with family in front of others.

She has told me point blank she will never apologize for her behavior.

She will however, try to 'buy' forgiveness with money or presents. After which she begins a new cycle of emotional abusive and generally depraved behavior.

She is considered a 'role model' christian in the community. She's quite intelligent and savvy. She knows very well what she can get away with and what she can't.

 

[ValleyGal]

My mom tends to have an 'old country' mentality where the parents talk and children listen. However, she does not really differentiate between conversations which are constructive and verbal taunting and emotional abuse of a sadistic nature. It's her prerogative as a parent, she has told me.

Next time she does this, it might be helpful to say "Yes, it's your cultural prerogative to speak disrespectfully about the dad that I loved, but what is your Christian obligation?" As Christians, we are to build each other up - and not just to their face. Before my husband moved to my city, he already had a good reputation because I built him up in the minds and hearts of my social network. Your mom has a Christian obligation to build up her deceased husband - especially to his survivors.

My mom has a strong sadistic streak and a fascination with morbid topics, especially death and funerals. She tends to view this world and life as a temporary trial before moving on to a far better life in the afterworld. Understandable, but she is very insensitive to those who might be grieving. Fortunately for her, her snide remarks are only ever directed at family members. This way, she does not have to face the wrath of people who might actually question her behavior.

Perhaps it's time, then. What is happening is she is "caught in sin" - that is, ongoing and unrepentant sin, by causing discord and disunity in your family, and this dynamic affects the unity of the Body of Believers. Perhaps it's time to employ the procedure Jesus described - go to her alone. Then if that doesn't work, take a sibling along with you. If that doesn't work, then take have a few of the church elders go with you. If that doesn't work, go to the top. If that doesn't work, have nothing to do with her. How sad that she does not have the compassionate mind of Christ, to support you in grief. Even if she didn't like her husband, that should not matter at this point. What matters is that you did like him, and you have had a terrible loss, even if she didn't. Would she treat any of her friends the way she treated you? Imo, she should treat her own family far better than she treats anyone outside of it. After all, the Bible says that we should care for those who are our own family...even in death, Jesus made provision for his mother Mary, by passing her care over to John. It also says that anyone who does not provide (provision is more than financial) for their family is worse than a non-believer.

I am so sorry for your loss, and the subsequent destruction of what little relationship you had with your mom. My prayer is that Jesus will use your situation as a platform for demonstrating his ministry of reconciliation.

 

[theonelight]

Thank you for your kind and constructive thoughts valleygal.

I have tried speaking with a church pastor, several actually, about my relationship, who have in turn, spoken to her. It has no effect on her. I have tried all of the other strategies you mention, many times.

She has built up a lot of clout with her church and community, so she feels quite comfortable dealing with her family however she pleases.

I should note that she does not consider my father/her husband to be family at all. That is just a family she married into, she told me. She says she is only loyal to her own father, whom she considers her 'true' family.

I am not family to her, in this sense. Nor was her husband. Her husband in her mind played the role of 'oppressor.' He was a vile tyrant in her eyes whom she was forced to serve.

She has a convenient way of twisting her own choices around as if they were somehow imposed upon her.

 

[keith99]

Thank you for your kind and constructive thoughts valleygal.

I have tried speaking with a church pastor, several actually, about my relationship, who have in turn, spoken to her. It has no effect on her. I have tried all of the other strategies you mention, many times.

She has built up a lot of clout with her church and community, so she feels quite comfortable dealing with her family however she pleases.

I should note that she does not consider my father/her husband to be family at all. That is just a family she married into, she told me. She says she is only loyal to her own father, whom she considers her 'true' family.

I am not family to her, in this sense. Nor was her husband. Her husband in her mind played the role of 'oppressor.' He was a vile tyrant in her eyes whom she was forced to serve.

She has a convenient way of twisting her own choices around as if they were somehow imposed upon her.

Sounds like there is little hope until she is a grandparent.

Sometimes one like this can change when they find out that access to grandchildren is conditional.

Sorry to say that means nasty choices for you any way you cut it.

EDIT: I think this is most likely not needed, but better heard too often than not enough. If you do have children watch yourself. Behavior like this tends to perpetuate. Take extra care that you do not become your mother. Do not assume that just because you escaped imitation of the most obvious problems that you have escaped all of them.

 

[theonelight]

Sounds like there is little hope until she is a grandparent.

Sometimes one like this can change when they find out that access to grandchildren is conditional.

Sorry to say that means nasty choices for you any way you cut it.

EDIT: I think this is most likely not needed, but better heard too often than not enough. If you do have children watch yourself. Behavior like this tends to perpetuate. Take extra care that you do not become your mother. Do not assume that just because you escaped imitation of the most obvious problems that you have escaped all of them.

Yes, I have a very clear understanding of how similar I am to both of my parents, both in positive and in less than positive ways.

The less than positive ways are just so deeply ingrained by a certain age that you start to think of it as 'normal' and even acceptable because you've seen it so often. The reactions just become an automatic reflex over time.

I still have a long ways to go, but I have had to spend a lot of time re-learning and trying to undo past bad habits that have been ingrained. For lack of a better description, I just 'automatically' auto pilot react in these negative ways, and then wind up regreting it later.

I often wind up repeating these patterns over and over again even when I don't intend to.

I get frustrated with myself more often than I do with others.

It's pretty crazy when I think about how dysfunctional our family was and still is to a degree.

 

[theonelight]

I forgive her. I hold no animosity towards her.

Practically speaking, we don't have to deal with each other, so there's no day to day issue that concerns me.

I'm curious: how would you react to this situation? Both emotionally and practically?

 

[seeingeyes]

I forgive her. I hold no animosity towards her.

Practically speaking, we don't have to deal with each other, so there's no day to day issue that concerns me.

I'm curious: how would you react to this situation? Both emotionally and practically?

I think it is very wise of you to put space between yourself and your mother. Particularly since you are working on "breaking the cycle". Forgiving her is also very wise. A desire for revenge is just another way of holding onto the past. But you are letting go of that. Well done.

It's hard for me to say how I would react in your place as I don't have the same family dynamic as you have described here. But my point of view is that of one who is a generation removed from the crazy folk, and I can tell you that I owe my mother an enormous debt for separating from her family before bringing up her own. I got a front row seat to what manipulation and abuse look like, but I never had to be up on stage living it.