• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Forgiveness

Maurice88

Newbie
Nov 1, 2009
2
0
✟22,612.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?
 

Zebra1552

Urban Nomad. Literally.
Nov 2, 2007
14,461
820
Freezing, America
✟41,738.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?
God doesn't send anyone to hell, they choose it for themselves by ignoring God's offer for forgiveness. See siggy.
 
Upvote 0

bsd31

Newbie
Aug 16, 2009
1,679
80
South of Canada, North of Mexico
✟24,900.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?

Read the scripture in context. Start at verse 15.

It's talking about a brother who has been shown the error of his ways, has listened and has responded by asking for forgiveness. God does forgive us without fail when we repent and ask Him to forgive us. He shows us the error of our ways. Sometimes He has to do it over and over again and sometimes only once. But He never fails to forgive us no matter how many times we screw up.

The judgment of hell isn't against someone asking forgiveness it's against someone who flat out refuses to be forgiven. They refuse the gift of grace. They will not be shown the error of their ways, they do not believe they can be held accountable.
 
Upvote 0

RobertZ

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2009
3,552
126
Gastonia NC
✟4,424.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?


That portion of scripture has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.
 
Upvote 0

fm107

Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20
May 12, 2009
1,152
143
London, UK
✟90,374.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?

Well the people who are going to be going to Hell for eternity are those who did not repent for their sins.

One should be in a repentant state in order to be forgiven!

Luke 17:4
If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Please note in the above quote, "I repent."
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
RE: If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity

Your if is correct. There is a Hell where some will spend eternity. (Mrk 9:43-48 and Rev 14:9-11)

RE: and God is the judge who sends them there

That 's true. God is the judge who "sends" them there. (Luke 12:4-5, and Rev 20:15)

RE: does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’?

It certainly would if we weren't talking apples and oranges. Mtt 18:21-22 regards things people do to each other without necessarily breaking any laws; while Hell regards criminal justice; viz: violations of the laws of God. In that respect, there is a point of no return when God begins to mock rather than offer clemency.

†. Pro 1:22-28 . . How long will you simple ones love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge If you had responded to my correction; I would have poured out my heart to you and made my thoughts known to you.

. . But since you rejected me when I called and gave no heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my correction; I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you— when calamity overtakes you like a typhoon, when disaster sweeps over you like a tornado, when distress and trouble flood you. Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me.

RE: It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?

Where is the forgiveness? Out of reach.

†. Ecc 3:1 . . To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

For some; the season is past; for others; there's still hope.

†. 2 Cor 6:1-2 . .We then, as workers together with Him, beseech you also that you receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he says: I have heard you in an acceptable time, and in the day of salvation have I helped you: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Maurice88

Newbie
Nov 1, 2009
2
0
✟22,612.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Mmmm, not sure I get it! I agree, it has nothing to do with "salvation" it has to do with forgiveness. The seventy times seven would indicate we must always forgive, however God will not forgive some.

I am just finding it very hard to embrace a "loving" God who could condemn someone to eternal hell - no matter what their crimes (sins). The bible paints a pretty gruesome picture of hell and I just don't understand the point of God's 'system' where a person (soul) has to live in hell for ever.

God is love, so how could "love" condemn a soul to the horrors of eternal hell? Others have told me that people condemn themselves, we all have a choice. This doesn't answer my question about a loving God having hell as part of His plan for his children. We are God's children - would any parent allow a child of theirs to spend eternity in the horrors hell?

Lets say a husband and wife, who loved each other, died at the same time. One went to heaven the other to hell for eternity. Would the one who went to heaven be happy knowing his/her partner was screaming in agony for eternity in the horror of hell?

A Pastor told me forget these questions, have faith and to just trust God. I tried that but it didn't work. There are somethings one just can't turn off and on like a tap. The bible is the best book I have ever found, it touches the soul and smacks you in the face with truths you just know deep inside should be followed. However God's plan of allowing indiscribable pain and suffering in hell, with no chance of reprieve, is a real stumbling block for me.
 
Upvote 0

Zebra1552

Urban Nomad. Literally.
Nov 2, 2007
14,461
820
Freezing, America
✟41,738.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Mmmm, not sure I get it! I agree, it has nothing to do with "salvation" it has to do with forgiveness. The seventy times seven would indicate we must always forgive, however God will not forgive some.

I am just finding it very hard to embrace a "loving" God who could condemn someone to eternal hell - no matter what their crimes (sins). The bible paints a pretty gruesome picture of hell and I just don't understand the point of God's 'system' where a person (soul) has to live in hell for ever.
They condemn themselves. God set the standard, and they didn't bother caring. They brought it upon themselves.

God is love, so how could "love" condemn a soul to the horrors of eternal hell? Others have told me that people condemn themselves, we all have a choice. This doesn't answer my question about a loving God having hell as part of His plan for his children. We are God's children - would any parent allow a child of theirs to spend eternity in the horrors hell?

Lets say a husband and wife, who loved each other, died at the same time. One went to heaven the other to hell for eternity. Would the one who went to heaven be happy knowing his/her partner was screaming in agony for eternity in the horror of hell?

A Pastor told me forget these questions, have faith and to just trust God. I tried that but it didn't work. There are somethings one just can't turn off and on like a tap. The bible is the best book I have ever found, it touches the soul and smacks you in the face with truths you just know deep inside should be followed. However God's plan of allowing indiscribable pain and suffering in hell, with no chance of reprieve, is a real stumbling block for me.
Excuse my insult, but that pastor likely doesn't know much about theology. There won't be crying, pain, or suffering in heaven, so the married person who went to heaven probably won't know about their previous partner.

Here's the philosophical explanation: sins are not finite, they are infinite, and thusly deserve an infinite punishment. The sins we partake in have an impact on other people and can cause them to miss out on an eternity with God. Thus, sin deserves an eternity of punishment.
 
Upvote 0

bsd31

Newbie
Aug 16, 2009
1,679
80
South of Canada, North of Mexico
✟24,900.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Mmmm, not sure I get it! I agree, it has nothing to do with "salvation" it has to do with forgiveness. The seventy times seven would indicate we must always forgive, however God will not forgive some.

I am just finding it very hard to embrace a "loving" God who could condemn someone to eternal hell - no matter what their crimes (sins). The bible paints a pretty gruesome picture of hell and I just don't understand the point of God's 'system' where a person (soul) has to live in hell for ever.

God is love, so how could "love" condemn a soul to the horrors of eternal hell? Others have told me that people condemn themselves, we all have a choice. This doesn't answer my question about a loving God having hell as part of His plan for his children. We are God's children - would any parent allow a child of theirs to spend eternity in the horrors hell?

Lets say a husband and wife, who loved each other, died at the same time. One went to heaven the other to hell for eternity. Would the one who went to heaven be happy knowing his/her partner was screaming in agony for eternity in the horror of hell?

A Pastor told me forget these questions, have faith and to just trust God. I tried that but it didn't work. There are somethings one just can't turn off and on like a tap. The bible is the best book I have ever found, it touches the soul and smacks you in the face with truths you just know deep inside should be followed. However God's plan of allowing indiscribable pain and suffering in hell, with no chance of reprieve, is a real stumbling block for me.

So then don't embrace Him. Until you settle it in your own heart calling yourself a Christian isn't going to make you one if you don't fully trust God.

You're only lying to yourself if you say on the one hand you love God more than anything else in all of life, but on the other hand you have venom in your heart towards His righteousness.

I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from seeking God, continue to do that, but until you can move beyond the pagan trap that a loving God can't allow an eternal hell you're going to have a hard time ever putting Him before everything else in your life.
 
Upvote 0

alexanderjc

Brother in Christ
Oct 8, 2009
76
7
Matthews, NC
✟22,731.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?

It is not uncommon for Christians to have questions about forgiveness. Forgiveness does not come easy for some. Our natural instinct is to recoil in self-protection when we've been injured. We don't naturally overflow with mercy, grace and forgiveness when we've been wronged. Jesus knew this and gave Peter the answer not only for him but for all of us. For a Child of God there is no limit to forgiveness when someone does something wrong to you. Why because as long as we are in this body we will do wrong ourselves and need forgiveness from God and if we can't forgive our brother how do we expect God to forgive us.

What was written in that scripture had nothing to do with hell. There will be absolutely no christians in hell.

Those of us that have given our lives to Christ are called the Children of God and those who haven't, according to the Word of God are children of the devil these are the ones who will spend eternity in hell and they will go there because they believed not on the Son of God but walked according to this world.

Ephesians 2:2 states "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

The children of disobedience was once us before we received salvation and the prince of the power of the air is the devil.

The bottom line is you need to study the Word of God more and take it for what it says. Every question that you need answered as it pertains to God He has provided the answer to it in His Word. God will never contradict Himself it is only your misunderstanding of what is being written that is confusing you.
 
Upvote 0
F

freeport

Guest
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, until seven times: but, until seventy times seven

If there is a hell, where some will spend eternity, and God is the judge who sends them there, does that not contradict the “seventy times seven’? It’s like God is saying we must always forgive each other, yet He will send some to hell (for eternity) – where is the forgiveness there?

You are making assumptions about Hell based on mythology, not Scriptural truth.

The default is Hell. A popular saying goes, "There is no way out of Hell". Really. Do you know for sure. And what is Hell and her outlines? They do not know.

But people should repent from their evil and not attempt to stay to them.

Who knows whether there is a way out of Hell or not? God.

God is love. So who believes that. Really?

Not many...


People form their beliefs by what they have done, whether deeds and words by faith or not.

That has to change in their own time.
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
RE: The seventy times seven would indicate we must always forgive

No, not always. Forgiveness is dependent upon two prerequisites.

1) The "sin" must be a personal offense. Crime does not qualify.

†. Mat 18:21 . . Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him?

†. Luke 17:3 . . If your brother sins against you

2) The offender must own his wrong and seek reconciliation with the person they offended.

†. Luke 17:3 . . if he repents, forgive him.

In the event of the commission of a crime, the incident becomes a matter for the cops and the courts.

†. Rom 13:3-4 . . For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

RE: This doesn't answer my question about a loving God having hell as part of His plan for his children. We are God's children - would any parent allow a child of theirs to spend eternity in the horrors hell?

The right to indentify one's self as a child of God is a bestowed right, rather than an intrinsic right. Not everyone has the right to identify themselves with God's children. By default, human beings come into existence as children of the dust; viz: Adam's children; not God's. In order to be accepted into God's home as one of His own kin, Adam's children must undergo a re-Genesis; viz: a second birth. This alone grants them the right to identify themselves as God's kin.

†. John 1:12-13 . .To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision, or a husband's will, but born of God.

Second births are not optional; no they are a must if Adam's children wish to obtain a place around the table in God's home as His kin.

†. John 3:3 . . I tell you the truth: no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born from above.

†. John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born again.

†. 1Cor 15:50 . . Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God

RE: The bible paints a pretty gruesome picture of hell and I just don't understand the point of God's 'system' where a person (soul) has to live in hell for ever.

Justice always seeks a balance; an equality— in order to do so; the punishment has to fit the crime. Since the dignity of God and His laws is off the scale; then the punishment for scofflaws has to be off the scale too in order for justice to obtain its balance according to the principle of eye for eye, tooth for tooth, foot for foot, burning for burning, stripe for stripe, life for life.

RE: Lets say a husband and wife, who loved each other, died at the same time. One went to heaven the other to hell for eternity. Would the one who went to heaven be happy knowing his/her partner was screaming in agony for eternity in the horror of hell?

This is where the supernatural aspect of Christianity comes into play with something called the fruit of the Spirit; two elements of which are Joy and Peace. (Gal 5:22)

In addition to the fruit of the Spirit; God's kin are slated for a memory-wipe.

†. Isa 65:17 . . For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

†. Rev 7:17 . . For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

†. Rev 21:4-5 . . And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

RE: God's plan of allowing indescribable pain and suffering in hell, with no chance of reprieve, is a real stumbling block for me.

It's not supposed to be a stumbling block; no, it's supposed to be a terror.

†. Isa 66:24 . . And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence unto all flesh.

†. Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

†. Mark 9:43-48 . . If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.

. . And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.

. . And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.

The Greek word for worms is skolex (sko'-lakes) which identifies grubs, maggots, and/or earth-worms. The worms, of course, are implied to feed upon the damned just as normal worms in life thrive on an open corpse. A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not totally unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176 degrees— hot enough to sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.

Acts 12:21-23 records a Herod's death by skolex of the infectious parasitic type. The biblical record goes right to the bottom line without any details, but according to an article I read in a back issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Herod didn't die immediately as the Biblical narrative seems to suggest, but rather, suffered with the malady quite a while. The worms were located mostly in his private parts (which may have included the prostate) and were so painful at times that he couldn't even walk or conduct state business.

Christian and non Christian alike often bleat that the Bible's God is love, love, love. But even the God of love has a dump, and a portion of its contents are the remains of human beings rather than just trash and garbage. An interesting concept to associate with The Lord's dump site is the necessity of sanitary disposal; which is really what landfills and dumps are designed to accomplish in order to prevent the spread of disease; which suggests that people in Hell are both toxic and infectious.

†. Mtt 9:12 . .They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

When The Lord returns, the first order of business is a thorough Spring cleaning followed by a trip to the dump.

†. Mtt 13:41-42 . . I, the Son of man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my kingdom everything that's offensive, and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RobertZ

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2009
3,552
126
Gastonia NC
✟4,424.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
RE: The seventy times seven would indicate we must always forgive

No, not always. Forgiveness is dependent upon two prerequisites.

1) The "sin" must be a personal offense. Crime does not qualify.

†. Mat 18:21 . . Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him?

†. Luke 17:3 . . If your brother sins against you

2) The offender must own his wrong and seek reconciliation with the person they offended.

†. Luke 17:3 . . if he repents, forgive him.

In the event of the commission of a crime, the incident becomes a matter for the cops and the courts.

†. Rom 13:3-4 . . For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

RE: This doesn't answer my question about a loving God having hell as part of His plan for his children. We are God's children - would any parent allow a child of theirs to spend eternity in the horrors hell?

The right to indentify one's self as a child of God is a bestowed right, rather than an intrinsic right. Not everyone has the right to identify themselves with God's children. By default, human beings come into existence as children of the dust; viz: Adam's children; not God's. In order to be accepted into God's home as one of His own kin, Adam's children must undergo a re-Genesis; viz: a second birth. This alone grants them the right to identify themselves as God's kin.

†. John 1:12-13 . .To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision, or a husband's will, but born of God.

Second births are not optional; no they are a must if Adam's children wish to obtain a place around the table in God's home as His kin.

†. John 3:3 . . I tell you the truth: no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born from above.

†. John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born again.

†. 1Cor 15:50 . . Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God

RE: The bible paints a pretty gruesome picture of hell and I just don't understand the point of God's 'system' where a person (soul) has to live in hell for ever.

Justice always seeks a balance; an equality— in order to do so; the punishment has to fit the crime. Since the dignity of God and His laws is off the scale; then the punishment for scofflaws has to be off the scale too in order for justice to obtain its balance according to the principle of eye for eye, tooth for tooth, foot for foot, burning for burning, stripe for stripe, life for life.

RE: Lets say a husband and wife, who loved each other, died at the same time. One went to heaven the other to hell for eternity. Would the one who went to heaven be happy knowing his/her partner was screaming in agony for eternity in the horror of hell?

This is where the supernatural aspect of Christianity comes into play with something called the fruit of the Spirit; two elements of which are Joy and Peace. (Gal 5:22)

In addition to the fruit of the Spirit; God's kin are slated for a memory-wipe.

†. Isa 65:17 . . For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

†. Rev 7:17 . . For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

†. Rev 21:4-5 . . And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

RE: God's plan of allowing indescribable pain and suffering in hell, with no chance of reprieve, is a real stumbling block for me.

It's not supposed to be a stumbling block; no, it's supposed to be a terror.

†. Isa 66:24 . . And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence unto all flesh.

†. Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

†. Mark 9:43-48 . . If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.

. . And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.

. . And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— their worm does not die
and the fire is never quenched.

The Greek word for worms is skolex (sko'-lakes) which identifies grubs, maggots, and/or earth-worms. The worms, of course, are implied to feed upon the damned just as normal worms in life thrive on an open corpse. A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not totally unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176 degrees— hot enough to sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.

Acts 12:21-23 records a Herod's death by skolex of the infectious parasitic type. The biblical record goes right to the bottom line without any details, but according to an article I read in a back issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Herod didn't die immediately as the Biblical narrative seems to suggest, but rather, suffered with the malady quite a while. The worms were located mostly in his private parts (which may have included the prostate) and were so painful at times that he couldn't even walk or conduct state business.

Christian and non Christian alike often bleat that the Bible's God is love, love, love. But even the God of love has a dump, and a portion of its contents are the remains of human beings rather than just trash and garbage. An interesting concept to associate with The Lord's dump site is the necessity of sanitary disposal; which is really what landfills and dumps are designed to accomplish in order to prevent the spread of disease; which suggests that people in Hell are both toxic and infectious.

†. Mtt 9:12 . .They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

When The Lord returns, the first order of business is a thorough Spring cleaning followed by a trip to the dump.

†. Mtt 13:41-42 . . I, the Son of man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my kingdom everything that's offensive, and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

C.L.I.F.F.
/




This is scaring me to death, I dont want to be thrown into Hell.
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
RE: This is scaring me to death, I dont want to be thrown into Hell.

You'll be okay as long as you do exactly as I tell you.

Look in the Yellow Pages for a Conservative Baptist church in your area. There's other kinds of Baptist churches but I cannot personally vouch for any of their messages.

Call the church office and make an appointment to speak with a pastor. It doesn't have to be the senior pastor; an associate will do. When you come together, be frank and spell out your concerns as clearly and as simply as you can make them. He'll take it from there.

You don't have to join the church, nor should there be a fee for the interview. Christ's men have a mandate (Mrk 16:15) and they are not allowed to profit from it. That's known as the error of Balaam; the notorious prophet for profit in Numbers 22, 23, and 24. (cf. 2Pet 2:15-16)

BTW: You should upgrade your "Newbie" status.

Click on User CP located in the thin blue ribbon at the top of the page.

Then click on Edit Your Details.

Go down the page to Custom User Title

Put a check mark in the little Reset box.

Go down the page and click the Save Changes button

When you return to the forums, your status will be different.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RobertZ

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2009
3,552
126
Gastonia NC
✟4,424.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
RE: This is scaring me to death, I dont want to be thrown into Hell.

You'll be okay as long as you do exactly as I tell you.

Look in the Yellow Pages for a Conservative Baptist church in your area. There's other kinds of Baptist churches but I cannot personally vouch for any of their messages.

Call the church office and make an appointment to speak with a pastor. It doesn't have to be the senior pastor; an associate will do. When you come together, be frank and spell out your concerns as clearly and as simply as you can make them. He'll take it from there.

You don't have to join the church, nor should there be a fee for the interview. Christ's men have a mandate (Mrk 16:15) and they are not allowed to profit from it. That's known as the error of Balaam; the notorious prophet for profit in Numbers 22, 23, and 24. (cf. 2Pet 2:15-16)

C.L.I.F.F.
/


Well your probably going to be shocked when I tell you this but I have been attending church all of my 36yrs on this earth and its a baptist church that I attend.

I always thought I would be able to repent any time that I wanted to, I bought into satans lie that as long as their is life their is opportunity. Delaying salvation is dangerous not just because you can die unexpectedly but also you risk the danger of being abandoned by Gods Holy Spirit and left to die in your sins.

Im in bad shape man, I have been going through this for nearly a year and I to my horror cannot seem to find God or truly have a heart felt repentant heart. I have hardened my heart beyond belief and dulled my conscience past feeling.

I have committed so many terrible sins and sinned against a great amount of light, I have a seared my conscience and I know I should feel terrible about my past sins but I have a hard time really feeling sorry about it. Ughh.........this is a horrible position to be in.

I have also talked with church counselors until the point that they were giving up hope as well because nothing was working. I believe that there is a point of no return that one can cross between Gods mercy and Gods wrath but most people cross that line and never realize it.

It seems I crossed that line and then later realized it and now cannot for the life of me be saved, that warning you posted in Proverbs speaks directly to me and accusses me and to this day is haunting me because I cant find God even though im searching diligently. So many times God dealt with me, so many opportunities that I turned away, Im damned, I just know im damned.
 
Upvote 0

bsd31

Newbie
Aug 16, 2009
1,679
80
South of Canada, North of Mexico
✟24,900.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
.
RE: This is scaring me to death, I dont want to be thrown into Hell.

You'll be okay as long as you do exactly as I tell you.

Look in the Yellow Pages for a Conservative Baptist church in your area. There's other kinds of Baptist churches but I cannot personally vouch for any of their messages.

Call the church office and make an appointment to speak with a pastor. It doesn't have to be the senior pastor; an associate will do. When you come together, be frank and spell out your concerns as clearly and as simply as you can make them. He'll take it from there.

You don't have to join the church, nor should there be a fee for the interview. Christ's men have a mandate (Mrk 16:15) and they are not allowed to profit from it. That's known as the error of Balaam; the notorious prophet for profit in Numbers 22, 23, and 24. (cf. 2Pet 2:15-16)

That's funny. I always thought, and believed the only way to escape hell was to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Didn't realize that conservative baptist churches had anything to do with it!
 
Upvote 0

RobertZ

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2009
3,552
126
Gastonia NC
✟4,424.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That's funny. I always thought, and believed the only way to escape hell was to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Didn't realize that conservative baptist churches had anything to do with it!


Please dont derail this conversation with a bickering argument. I need help, all the help that I can get so I would like for this to stay on track so if you have anything useful to add that would help me out I would appreciate it.

And I dont mean that in a smart elic way at all.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RobertZ

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2009
3,552
126
Gastonia NC
✟4,424.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have dreams where all these men of God are praying over me and crying out and then they all suddenly stop and look at each other with a look of hopelessness on their face and they get up and walk away shaking their heads.

Did I commit the sin unto death? the one that scripture commands men not to pray about because God has given that person up?
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
RE: Im damned, I just know im damned.

Well, in that case, I'd suggest you use whatever time you have remaining to begin preparing yourself for the worst when you cross over to the other side. I'd also suggest that you find lots of interesting and stimulating things to do while you can.

I've been active on internet message boards for maybe twelve years now— beginning with Excite and Lycos, and eventually spreading out to Yahoo, then to Beliefnet, BibleForums, CrossWalk, and ChristianForums —and it's been my experience that most people, including professing Xians, haven't really given the Bible's hell much thought.

I just wish there were tour buses to the Bible's hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also Hell's impact upon the human mind.

There are people languishing in the Bible's hell this very moment, even as you read this, who have been there not only since the time of Christ, but since the Flood. I won't speculate on how many years that might be, but Egypt's first pyramid, the Step Pyramid of Djoser, was about 4,600 years ago. The damned from Djoser's era have not only spent 4,600 years in the Bible's hell already, but they have another 4,600 yet to go, and another 4,600 years to go after that. Even after existing in the Bible's hell for 100 million years, people will still have that many more years out ahead of them.

To put those 100m-year increments in perspective, if they were miles, they'd stretch out to the Sun with enough left over to make fifteen round trips to the Moon.

People in Hell go year, after year, after year, after year, with no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies— there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, cheering for out favorite team during the World Series of Baseball, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, howls, yelps, and gnashing teeth. Conditions are really bad, and no one has a good attitude about it; and in that kind of environment, it's reasonable to expect quarrels, and ugly words exchanged between people. (Is there really any good reason to respect your fellow man's civil liberties in the Bible's hell; or to be courteous, kind, forgiving, and patient?) Everyone is sad, blue, and lonely; and after a few years of the conditions I've been describing, I should think most folks break, and go mad from the stress.

Time stands still in the Bible's hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in stir like convicts serving sentences in prisons expecting to get out some day; nor is Hell a tour of duty like a year in Viet Nam. No, people in the Bible's hell are its perpetual residents.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. Or a sexual appetite with no way to satisfy it. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor gobble barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more world series, no more super bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no iPhones, no computers, no Twitters, no texting, no FaceBook, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.

No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of Hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in Hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0