Forgiveness; what is it?

[Vermithrax]

What is forgiveness?

Does it mean different things to different people? If so, should it?

Is the concept of forgiving a financial debt different from forgiving an offense?

What does it mean when the Christian god forgives sins?

 

[visionary]

Have you every gone to the person you have wronged and ask for forgiveness in all sincerity and received the forgiveness you did not deserve or expect... that burden of guilt taken off your shoulders is what forgiveness feels like.

 

[salida]

www.livingwaters.com/good/ Do you think you are a good person? This is why mankind needs forgiveness.

 

[Van]

I am an unjust person. When I am wronged (at least in my opinion) I can just choose to forgive the person and not hold that "offense" against what I consider to be right, against the person. But what if I were a just person. Would it be just to forgive someone if the offense also hurt others. Say an atheist posts lies about Christianity. And those lies hindered someone from trusting in Jesus. Now if I forgive the person, am I not being unjust to the one who was led astray?

The Bible says only God can forgive sins, and I suspect there is a good reason for that. We use words like reconciled, redeemed, but what we are really saying is made righteous, debt free on the great scale of justice. Outside of Christ, our tangled web of unholiness precludes justice on that great scale, but being justified through the propitiation of Christ allows us to be shed of that body of sin, the so-called circumcision of Christ, done without hands.

Another neat thing about the mercy we obtain in Christ, not only our past and present sins are forgiven, but also our future sins. So the forgiveness is not tit for tat, not a forgiveness of specific sins, but an unconditional pardon, free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, we are free from the penalty of sin, now and forever. Praise be to God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[drich0150]

What is forgiveness?

1.to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.2.to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).3.to grant pardon to (a person).4.to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies. 5.to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.

Does it mean different things to different people? If so, should it?

It can but we all have the same basic understanding.

Is the concept of forgiving a financial debt different from forgiving an offense?

In fact it is the same, as Illustrated by Jesus in Mat 18:
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

What does it mean when the Christian god forgives sins?

According to scripture if you have your sins washed away in the Blood of Jesus, and If as the posted scripture above indicates, you can forgive those who sin against you as you have had your sins forgiven.. Then your sin debt will be completely forgiven or erased.

 

[Vermithrax]

Have you every gone to the person you have wronged and ask for forgiveness in all sincerity and received the forgiveness you did not deserve or expect... that burden of guilt taken off your shoulders is what forgiveness feels like.

No.

 

[Vermithrax]

www.livingwaters.com/good/ Do you think you are a good person? This is why mankind needs forgiveness.

I don't understand.

 

[Vermithrax]

I am an unjust person. When I am wronged (at least in my opinion) I can just choose to forgive the person and not hold that "offense" against what I consider to be right, against the person. But what if I were a just person. Would it be just to forgive someone if the offense also hurt others. Say an atheist posts lies about Christianity. And those lies hindered someone from trusting in Jesus. Now if I forgive the person, am I not being unjust to the one who was led astray?

The Bible says only God can forgive sins, and I suspect there is a good reason for that. We use words like reconciled, redeemed, but what we are really saying is made righteous, debt free on the great scale of justice. Outside of Christ, our tangled web of unholiness precludes justice on that great scale, but being justified through the propitiation of Christ allows us to be shed of that body of sin, the so-called circumcision of Christ, done without hands.

Another neat thing about the mercy we obtain in Christ, not only our past and present sins are forgiven, but also our future sins. So the forgiveness is not tit for tat, not a forgiveness of specific sins, but an unconditional pardon, free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, we are free from the penalty of sin, now and forever. Praise be to God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Suppose the atheist isn't lying? What then?

Also, you're avoiding the question.

 

[Vermithrax]

1.to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.2.to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).3.to grant pardon to (a person).4.to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies. 5.to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.



It can but we all have the same basic understanding.


In fact it is the same, as Illustrated by Jesus in Mat 18:
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."


According to scripture if you have your sins washed away in the Blood of Jesus, and If as the posted scripture above indicates, you can forgive those who sin against you as you have had your sins forgiven.. Then your sin debt will be completely forgiven or erased.

I don't understand it when people quote scripture. It normally means they can't answer the question for themselves.

 

[drich0150]

I don't understand it when people quote scripture. It normally means they can't answer the question for themselves.

lol.. If you bothered to read it, Jesus was illustrating that (as you suggested) forgiveness was alot like forgiving a financial debt.. There wasn't anything to answer other that your observation or question had a parallel in scripture.. By giving someone a direct passage concerning there question (normally) it means that if that person read the passage, and was looking for a genuine answer they would see it..

If your still having trouble "understanding scripture" then:

Is the concept of forgiving a financial debt different from forgiving an offense?

According to scripture, it is the same.

 

[Sojourner1]

What is forgiveness?

Canceling out or giveg pardon to a debt or an offense.

Does it mean different things to different people? If so, should it?

It probably does mean different things to different people. Some may feel that forgiveness isn't complete until the other parties has accepted their forgiveness. Other people may feel that they can forgive without having their forgiveness acknowledged or accepted. I think in general most people have the same idea of what forgiveness is and how difficult it can be to forgive others. Especially when that forgiveness is not acknowledged.

Is the concept of forgiving a financial debt different from forgiving an offense?

I think the concept is similar, however, there is much more involved emotionally when an offense is forgiven compared to a debt. Imagine forgiving the person who murdered your child...that is much more difficult then forgiving someone for not paying you back $20 that they borrowed.

What does it mean when the Christian god forgives sins?

Our sin has offended God and when he chooses to forgive our sins he is doing so to bring reconcilation between Himself and us. Our sin has separated us from God. In order to be reconciled with God we must acknowledge that we need forgiveness and that our sin has separated us from Him.

 

[Van]

Hi Vermithrax,
You say, what if the atheist was telling the truth. Aside from the logical impossibility, then what is there to forgive? Lets suppose there is nothing to forgive, then to forgive would be a self aggrandizing fiction. Which would be a sin needing forgiveness.

Vermithrax, do you think it is a waste of time for Christians to present the gospel repeatedly to atheists? Still waiting for an answer.

 

[freeport]

What is forgiveness?

Does it mean different things to different people? If so, should it?

Is the concept of forgiving a financial debt different from forgiving an offense?

What does it mean when the Christian god forgives sins?

It means all of your sins are not counted against you when God forgives one their sins. It means though not perfect, they may be made perfect, with their past sins forgiven and a way to perfection - true perfection - laid before their path ahead.

True perfection is spoken of in the Gospels as turning the other cheek, loving even the wicked, and so on, foremost.


That is, true perfection is found in true, objective charity towards all.


Forgiveness is about forgiving people their debts against you: whatever someone does which has offended you or hurt you. It is about trusting God in vengeance, and not seeking it on our own. It is also about not judging people, but letting them be as they are, praying that if they have or do treat us evilly that they might find a better path.

It is about freedom from hate and anger, neither of which is a place where people should live in. We can have hates and anger, just as we can have sadness, but this is not where we should be living day and night. And sadness should be godly sorrow, not worldly sorrow.


That is, all emotions should be there, but with the overriding joy of coming from a place much higher then "earth". Or the grave.

 

[childofGod31]

What is forgiveness?

Does it mean different things to different people? If so, should it?

Is the concept of forgiving a financial debt different from forgiving an offense?

What does it mean when the Christian god forgives sins?

Forgiveness means - not harboring negative hateful emotions in your soul against somebody who offended you in some way. These emotions destroy the purity of your soul and give the devil a gateway to come and do what he wants with you. It also gives power to your sinful nature to be strong in you and you will be its slave and do what it desires (which is usually not good for your soul).

I think that forgiving a debt is similar. If they can't pay you back, or wont, you should NOT harbor any negative feelings against them. (I mean, you can ask for your money back, I think, but don't force it back. The Bible says something like: lend freely, without expecting it back...

God forgives our sins is this: God is holy and He created everything and He made the rules. He is the King and we live by His rules. When we break His rules, the penalty is death. When we are born, we automatically sin (break God's rules) because of the sin that we inherited from Adam (after the fall).
God's mercy and His gift is that when we repent of our sins, God forgives us. In other words, He declares us NOT guity of breaking His rules. And this was only possible to do after God's Son Jesus Christ's blood was shed on the cross. Becasue according to God's rules, there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. So GOD loved us enough to come and die for us in order to find a way to declare us NOT Guilty (He came in the face of Jesus Christ).

 

[christandisrael]

The truth is that we need to follow the Golden Rule. That means that we must treat others as we would like to be treated. If you want to be forgiven, then forgive others. Now, when it come to forgiveing others, you must foirgive God, in order for God to forgive you! If you don't forgive others of their sins, then God will not forgive yours! God treats you as you would like to be treated. You do the same.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Vermithrax. You had some good replies, and perhaps you know, or get the meaning? To forgive is: to let go of all bitter, or hurt feelings. It is not easy, and can only be fully understood, after trying to find out for yourself. The advantages are very noticeable, and you will feel a different person. If someone has hurt, or deceived you, ask yourself " what can I do?" If there is a way, not too painful or difficult, you can try, and will find either satisfaction, or secret glee. But that will not give much pleasure, it will soon be forgotten. IF, however, you realise that there is nothing you can do, try very hard to forget it, because unless you do forget it, you will be the loser. You will become bitter, and more bitter. A Christian, however, will take all the hurt to Jesus, we put it at the Lord`s feet, and leave it there. This is a wonderful truth, Vermithrax, and thousands of Christian men and women will testify to it, myself included. There are 2 ways to forgive, one is to give it to the Lord, or to learn to forget and forgive. But if you can forgive, you will have learned a valid lesson. Forgiveness is to let go of all that life uses to make you feel bad, sad, angry, tall or small, etc. I say this humbly and with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.