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Hey, if you want to DM me the name of the priest, I can look him up, and see if he is shady.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Forgetting what to do during Mass, this is unlike me.
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I assume it’s the same but I haven’t been to that town in nearly five years.
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It’s my understanding that new believers were actually baptized naked and put on new clothes? Maybe that’s what he meant?
Still not ok.
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I was taught women always handled female baptisms. Sort of the equivalent of nuns today.
For instance, the rite of exorcism was performed when the catechumens were shoeless and clad in scant garments, mimicking prisoners of war who walked barefoot and naked, to remind the catechumens of their captivity in sin. The symbolism of man’s bondage in sin was heightened in Cyril’s Jerusalem where the ceremonial exorcisms were performed in the Church of the Resurrection, which offered the trembling catechumens views of Golgotha, the Holy Sepulchre, and the ruins of old Jerusalem. During the exorcism the bishop or exorcist used “frightening and horrible words” (according to John Chrysotosom’s Baptismal Instructions) and breathed on the catechumens to force the evil spirits out of them—just as Christ had forced the evil spirits out of possessed men and women—and to prepare them for the impending visitation of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism also offered great mystagogical moments because it re-enacted an actual event in the life of Christ. Time and again in their writings the mystagogues reminded their neophytes that baptism was a “bath of regeneration”; through baptism the neophytes had died to their old selves and were reborn in Christ to share in his death and Resurrection. Indeed, “triune” baptism, immersing the catechumens three times in the baptismal pool, was explained by Cyril as representing the three days Christ spent in the darkness of the tomb. Just as Christ emerged from the darkness after the third day, Cyril told his neophytes, they too had emerged from their spiritual darkness after baptism, unrecognizable to their former selves.
This fourth-century experience would have been especially potent in its symbolism because people were baptized naked. By removing their clothes the catechumens were putting off the “old men” with their old deeds, and instead were humbling themselves, imitating Christ’s nakedness on the cross, and preparing for the cleansing of his Resurrection.
Some modern pastoral leaders have a tendency to interpret the mystagogies of the fourth-century bishops as mere catechetical explanations of the sacraments. This results in the common notion that the mystagogical period of the RCIA is nothing more than a fifty-day catechesis to aid the converts in their reflection on initiation. This is an unfortunate and incomplete interpretation; it does not allow mystagogy to flourish throughout the entire period of conversion as the true and proper theology that it is. The brilliance of patristic mystagogy is that it caused the catechumens to actually participate in the saving activities of Christ through the experiences of exorcism, baptism, chrism, and Eucharist.
Continued below.
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For instance, the rite of exorcism was performed when the catechumens were shoeless and clad in scant garments, mimicking prisoners of war who walked barefoot and naked, to remind the catechumens of their captivity in sin. The symbolism of man’s bondage in sin was heightened in Cyril’s Jerusalem where the ceremonial exorcisms were performed in the Church of the Resurrection, which offered the trembling catechumens views of Golgotha, the Holy Sepulchre, and the ruins of old Jerusalem. During the exorcism the bishop or exorcist used “frightening and horrible words” (according to John Chrysotosom’s Baptismal Instructions) and breathed on the catechumens to force the evil spirits out of them—just as Christ had forced the evil spirits out of possessed men and women—and to prepare them for the impending visitation of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism also offered great mystagogical moments because it re-enacted an actual event in the life of Christ. Time and again in their writings the mystagogues reminded their neophytes that baptism was a “bath of regeneration”; through baptism the neophytes had died to their old selves and were reborn in Christ to share in his death and Resurrection. Indeed, “triune” baptism, immersing the catechumens three times in the baptismal pool, was explained by Cyril as representing the three days Christ spent in the darkness of the tomb. Just as Christ emerged from the darkness after the third day, Cyril told his neophytes, they too had emerged from their spiritual darkness after baptism, unrecognizable to their former selves.
This fourth-century experience would have been especially potent in its symbolism because people were baptized naked. By removing their clothes the catechumens were putting off the “old men” with their old deeds, and instead were humbling themselves, imitating Christ’s nakedness on the cross, and preparing for the cleansing of his Resurrection.
Some modern pastoral leaders have a tendency to interpret the mystagogies of the fourth-century bishops as mere catechetical explanations of the sacraments. This results in the common notion that the mystagogical period of the RCIA is nothing more than a fifty-day catechesis to aid the converts in their reflection on initiation. This is an unfortunate and incomplete interpretation; it does not allow mystagogy to flourish throughout the entire period of conversion as the true and proper theology that it is. The brilliance of patristic mystagogy is that it caused the catechumens to actually participate in the saving activities of Christ through the experiences of exorcism, baptism, chrism, and Eucharist.
Continued below.
The Old Is New Again
Drop the word “mystagogy” at your next cocktail party and the response is likely to be “Mister who?” An archaic word, mystagogy is seldo...
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Early Christian painting of a naked baptism from the 3rd Century, Saint Calixte Catacomb, Rome.
EARLY CHURCH BAPTISM WAS NUDE
Baptism of Jesus 13th century. I would like to apologize to all of the faithful readers of HopeFully Biblical who read my two dealings w...
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