Foreign Policy: Trade With China Has Turned Into Giving Away Our Values For Their Money

[TLK Valentine]

What part of New Jersey crime syndicate is hard to understand?

How they're more organized and respectable than the government...

 

[miamited]

Hi NH,

Thanks for you reply:

I always find it more than a little ironic when people accuse Trump of being authoritarian. He's been nothing of the sort.

Surely you jest. I can't think of any president since I've been aware of politics that is more 'my way or the highway' than Donald Trump. He's been that way pretty much all of his adult life. But, each is free to believe as they will. He can't even keep his administration staffed because he literally can't stomach anyone who does not bow and acquiesce to his authority. Anyway, it was good for a laugh.

In truth, Trump's never had the chance to be authoritarian

Oh stop, please! My sides are hurting. I can't catch my breath.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

I don't like him = authoritarian. Whether he has acted in an authoritarian manner or not.

What Has Trump done that no other President did and that was outside the powers assigned to the President by the Constitution? I cannot think of anything yet I can think of things Trump has not done that other Presidents did which were outside of the assigned powers of the President.

Hi GTAW,

No! I don't like him does not equal authoritarian. That everyone has to do what I say without question = authoritarian. Just take a gander at the long list of his administrative staff departures and you might get some idea of what I'm referring to. Then again, maybe not. As I replied to NH, each is free to believe as they will, but evidence is still evidence.

Honestly, if you haven't been able to figure out, especially over these last two weeks, what the president has done that is outside the powers assigned to him by the Constitution, I imagine that you really believe that he could shoot someone dead on 5th Ave. and not lose a single supporter. I'm pretty sure that the Constitution does not give the president the authority to make deals with foreign nations to investigate American citizens for political gain.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi GTAW,

No! I don't like him does not equal authoritarian. That everyone has to do what I say without question = authoritarian. Just take a gander at the long list of his administrative staff departures and you might get some idea of what I'm referring to. Then again, maybe not. As I replied to NH, each is free to believe as they will, but evidence is still evidence.

Honestly, if you haven't been able to figure out, especially over these last two weeks, what the president has done that is outside the powers assigned to him by the Constitution, I imagine that you really believe that he could shoot someone dead on 5th Ave. and not lose a single supporter. I'm pretty sure that the Constitution does not give the president the authority to make deals with foreign nations to investigate American citizens for political gain.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I often wonder why do so many people imagine do so many incredible things about people that simply don't assume Trump is always guilty of everything anyone accuses him of.

I'm pretty sure the constitution does empower the President to ask the assistance of foreign countries in investigations criminal matters. As for the c scenario you put forward of using that power for political gain, I don't assume someone did something without convincing evidence. But if we were to assume that Trump did what you seem to believe , on faith alone I guess, he did, would that in realty be an act of an authoritarian or just a the act of a corrupt politician? Was Biden being an authoritarian when he threatened the Ukraine with cutting off aid if a prosecutor was not fired? I am pretty sure that the Constitution does not empower a Vice President with any power to threaten a foreign leader.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The Federalist has a couple of foreign policy articles today dealing with the current China trade issues.
Trade With China Has Turned Into Giving Away Our Values For Their Money: Free trade with communist nations will defeat every law we have. In a free market with an unfree nation, we have created a competition of systems, and bad systems will drive out good.

The most recent example of American business leaders kowtowing to Chinese Communist Party Chairman Xi Jinping is seen in the way the National Basketball Association cracked down on dissent from one of its employees. The situation is benign enough by American standards: Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey tweeted a message of support for the pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong — just another American praising democracy and peaceful protest.

But support for democracy is far from harmless in the eyes of the Chinese Communist Party. Word got back to the NBA that dissent from the party line was unacceptable for any corporation that wants to do business with them. Morey’s tweet disappeared, and the league issued a groveling apology.

It wasn’t quick enough, though. ... Some sources reported that the Rockets even considered firing Morey for his thoughtcrime. In China, the Rockets are already being cast down the memory hole.

The NBA scandal has brought it to people’s attention, but it has been the lie behind trade with China since that nation was admitted to the World Trade Organization in 2001. We trusted China to play by the rules, and our mistake was apparent very quickly. Those who would adhere to it in the face of that evidence are willfully blind.

But is it enough to call the rich liberals in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street hypocrites? Clearly, the case has been proven again and again, but what good is it if conservatives and liberals just point fingers at each other?
...
Republicans can help individual workers, increase American civil liberties, and preserve nature merely by standing up to China — something they and Democrats have spectacularly failed to do for decades now.

A Republican Party that stands up to China can actually stand up for human rights. That’s a favorable contrast to a party that says the right things then sells out to the highest bidder. Standing up to China and taking control of our own economy, society, and inalienable rights is the right thing to do. It’s also the way to win with the voters. President Trump and congressional Republicans should seize this opportunity for the country’s sake and for their own.​

FOREIGN POLICY: China’s Ultimate Goal Is To Control American Culture, And Companies Should Resist It: If we let the Chinese government set limits on what we can say or do, if we give up our freedom for short-term financial gain, we will lose our ability to create the best products.

If ESPN thought shutting down on-air discussion about China and Hong Kong would please its Chinese master and protect the commercial interests of itself and its corporate parent Disney, it’s dead wrong. What China wants is not simply to police a few words on social media or on air. It wants to control American culture, period.
...
We have seen Marriott fire an hourly employee in Omaha, Nebraska, for liking a tweet a Tibetan group posted. The three biggest U.S. airlines — American Airlines, United, and Delta — bowed to China’s demand and changed their websites to list Taiwan as part of China despite the fact that Taiwan has been self-ruling since 1940 and is under a completely different political and economic system than mainland China.

Most recently, Apple pulled a popular app, HKmap.live, from the App Store because Hong Kong protesters have been relying on it to track police activity on the streets and to avoid trouble spots. Apple deemed such usage of the app “illegal.” The company revised its decision and brought the app back a day later after widespread outcry.
...
Many of the “backlashes” Western companies receive come from an online Chinese group referred to as “Wumao,” Chinese users who are on the government’s payroll to support the government’s policies and messaging.
...
Whenever the Chinese government wants to police a foreigner’s or a foreign company’s speech and behavior, “Wumao” is deployed to flood the person or company’s site and social media with condemning posts. These paid trolls do not represent thoughts and preferences of the majority of ordinary Chinese citizens.
...
The reason America has the best products and sport teams is not because we are a rich and powerful nation (keep in mind, China is rich and powerful too), but because Americans live in a free country and enjoy freedom of expression. We are free to be as creative and as productive as we see fit. It’s this freedom that enables talented Americans to create music, characters, products, and sports teams with universal appeal that transcends cultures.​

Isn't all this pretty much moot now that Donald has rented out the US military to the Saudis?

Trump: We’re sending troops to Saudi Arabia and ‘they pay for everything’

Saudi Arabia isn't exactly a paragon of Western values, but if we're willing to give away our blood for foreign cash, what's the point of pretending to care about our "values"?

 

[cow451]

You owe the New Jersey bosses a sincere and respectful apology.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Isn't all this pretty much moot now that Donald has rented out the US military to the Saudis?

Trump: We’re sending troops to Saudi Arabia and ‘they pay for everything’

Saudi Arabia isn't exactly a paragon of Western values, but if we're willing to give away our blood for foreign cash, what's the point of pretending to care about our "values"?

It all depends TLK....

Do you think freedom of expression matters? Or should companies only say what China tells them they're allowed to?

If you're comfortable with large-scale oppression of freedom of speech, minorities, religion, the gay community, etc....then you've got nothing to worry about.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It all depends TLK....

Do you think freedom of expression matters? Or should companies only say what China tells them they're allowed to?

I think the wise employee knows that it matters very much not to antagonize the ones who sign their paychecks.

If you're comfortable with large-scale oppression of freedom of speech, minorities, religion, the gay community, etc....then you've got nothing to worry about.

As long as our government sends soldiers to die for Wahhabism in exchange for a Saudi check, it hardly matters what I worry about.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think the wise employee knows that it matters very much not to antagonize the ones who sign their paychecks.

Is Disney an employee of China? I don't think you understand how multinational companies work.

As long as our government sends soldiers to die for Wahhabism in exchange for a Saudi check, it hardly matters what I worry about.

You can stop pretending this has anything at all to do with the topic. Obvious derail is obvious.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Is Disney an employee of China? I don't think you understand how multinational companies work.

Employer or customer, the principle remains the same... you take their money, you play by their rules.

I think you'll have to take it up with Robert Iger... and unless you have a boatload of money and/or Disney stock, he's got little incentive to care for your opinion.

I'm betting China has at least one -- and that you have neither.

You can stop pretending this has anything at all to do with the topic. Obvious derail is obvious.

What do you mean? "Large-scale oppression of freedom of speech, minorities, religion, the gay community, etc...." are all practiced in Saudi Arabia... and the US Armed forces were just rented out by its Commander in Chief to die if need be in order to protect it.

Disney is small potatoes when the US Government is the one selling out our values... but then again, what values does this country really have beyond chasing the Almighty Dollar?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The Federalist has a couple of foreign policy articles today dealing with the current China trade issues.
Trade With China Has Turned Into Giving Away Our Values For Their Money: Free trade with communist nations will defeat every law we have. In a free market with an unfree nation, we have created a competition of systems, and bad systems will drive out good.
... [snipped]

That was a very comical article! I love the part about "our values" being "democracy" and other allusions to some kind of supposed integrity as being American values.

Everyone knows that American values is "Greed is Good (or is it god???)" and that "Anything is good if you make enough money from it".

I wonder why the writer of this article thinks trading with China is bad because they lack democracy but he doesn't mention all that trade we do with Saudi Arabia which is certainly not a democracy in any way??? Oh yeah, it's because of what I was just saying our American values are - since we make money from the oil trade with Saudi then it is GOOD, not bad!!! It's OK with our values to serve Saudi oil even though that is a country that will kill a Christian for building a Church or witnessing to a muslim.

Where do these article writers come from? The Comedy Store? LOL!!!!

 

[TLK Valentine]

That was a very comical article! I love the part about "our values" being "democracy" and other allusions to some kind of supposed integrity as being American values.

That was a real knee-slapper... after all, Democracy is the one commodity we're not selling overseas.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Employer or customer, the principle remains the same... you take their money, you play by their rules.

They're selling the product to Chinese consumers....not the Chinese government.

I think you'll have to take it up with Robert Iger... and unless you have a boatload of money and/or Disney stock, he's got little incentive to care for your opinion.

I'm betting China has at least one -- and that you have neither.

Right...principles don't matter, money does. I'll remember this the next time you have something to say about climate change, immigration, foreign aid....

What do you mean?

I mean the deployment of US forces isn't even remotely relevant or close to the topic.

Don't derail the thread.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That was a very comical article! I love the part about "our values" being "democracy" and other allusions to some kind of supposed integrity as being American values.

Freedom of speech matters to some of us....though clearly, there are those who want to change that.

South Park Banned in China - South Park is Being Censored After the Band in China Episode

 

[Ana the Ist]

I remember a couple of posters here posting about the Hong Kong protests. Would you be comfortable being banned for that?

Blizzard cuts suspension of professional gamer who backed Hong Kong protest movement

 

[TLK Valentine]

They're selling the product to Chinese consumers....not the Chinese government.

Irrelevant. The Chinese government decides what comes into their country... remember, these are the folks who actually did build a wall once upon a time...

Right...principles don't matter, money does. I'll remember this the next time you have something to say about climate change, immigration, foreign aid....

You usually argue against me anyway when I do so based on that exact premise... does this mean that from now on, you'll do so while pretending not to know the difference between the way the world should be and what it is?

I mean the deployment of US forces isn't even remotely relevant or close to the topic.

Except that it is -- they're getting ready to gear up, fight, and die for... what exactly were you allegedly railing against again?

Ah yes... "large-scale oppression of freedom of speech, minorities, religion, the gay community, etc...."

Just because you no longer care doesn't make it a derail.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I remember a couple of posters here posting about the Hong Kong protests. Would you be comfortable being banned for that?

What does "comfort" have to do with anything?

 

[wing2000]

I'm pretty sure the constitution does empower the President to ask the assistance of foreign countries in investigations criminal matters.

Is this comedy hour?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Irrelevant. The Chinese government decides what comes into their country... remember, these are the folks who actually did build a wall once upon a time...

Well it's relevant when you continually misunderstand the nature of international business.

You usually argue against me anyway when I do so based on that exact premise.

The best part is I can just now quote you. I'm not arguing about morality....I'm arguing about business. It's troubling when you can lose your job, in the US, with a US company, because that company doesn't want to offend China.

Legally speaking, we may have to protect freedom of speech from companies.

Except that it is

Then where's the connection to restrictions on a US citizens' freedom of speech by a foreign government?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What does "comfort" have to do with anything?

Just curious which rights you're cool with losing.