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Forcing the Chruch to accept homosexuality..

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Jase

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Says you. I have shown you where scripture point to the sin found in homosexuality.
No you haven't. You've shown a very questionable interpretation of an English translation based on a literalistic approach.
That have nothing to do with your favorite five, and yet you best response is to ignore me..
Seeing as I adamantly disagree with your views and methods of expressing them, ignoring you seems to be the best solution since we certainly are never going to agree.

I also get tired of going out of my way to type out lengthy explanations with evidentiary support, only to have you guys go "Nuh uh, my interpretation says its wrong!".
 
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drich0150

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[serious]

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An interesting collection of cited verses. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a single one on who is allowed to marry whom. There are references to to purposes of marriage which I can address, but no list of "in order to marry person A and person B must be X, Y, and Z."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Provides an explanation of why people marry. No prohibitions or requirements are set.


Provides an explanation of why people marry. No prohibitions or requirements are set.


Relates to rules for widows remarrying. She encouraged to remain unmarried, but is free to marry "anyone she wishes." Arguably, this would support gay marriage if the anyone she wishes happens to be female as well.

The only prohibition set is that she should remarry within the faith.

25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

No prohibitions or requirements are set.

67 Isaac brought her into the tent of his mother Sarah, and he married Rebekah. So she became his wife, and he loved her; and Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.

No prohibitions or requirements are set.

10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

These are rules relating to polygamy with a slave purchased as a bride. It may not be the kind of verse you want to point to when arguing for "traditional marriage"

No prohibitions or requirements are set.

4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Another interesting one. "marriage should be honored by all" reads more like a command NOT to refuse to recognize gay marriage. Beyond that it simply says not to cheat.

4 The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.

We are not to deny sex to our spouses, but this again does not deal with any rules or prohibitions on who should get married.

18 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
may her breasts satisfy you always,
may you ever be captivated by her love.

No prohibitions or requirements are set.

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

No prohibitions or requirements are set.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

If we go down this road, we have to address whether an infertile couple can marry.

2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.

This one is kind of pulled out of context. The jist of the chapter is "it's good not to marry if you don't have strong attractions, but if you do have strong desire, it's better to marry." It seems the most straight forward application of this would be that homosexuals should marry rather than burn with passion.


Again, speaks to behavior in marriage, but no prohibitions or requirements are set for entering into marriage.


A warning against divorce, but no prohibitions or requirements are set for marriage.
 
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KCKID

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You've done your homework and presented it very clearly. Well done.
 
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KCKID

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Regardless of marriage or civil union, homosexual acts are an abomination in the eyes of God.

Sure hope you observed the Sabbath this weekend, magnum, i.e. Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. If not you're to be put to death. Breaking the Sabbath is denying Creation and to do so SO offends God.
 
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KCKID

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I also get tired of going out of my way to type out lengthy explanations with evidentiary support, only to have you guys go "Nuh uh, my interpretation says its wrong!".

Do they even make the effort to do that? I thought they simply ignored your lengthy explanations with evidentiary support.
 
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nChrist

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See the underlined portions of the Scriptures:

Leviticus 18:22-25 KJV Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Leviticus 18:22-25 AMP You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination. [I Cor. 6:9, 10.] 23 Neither shall you lie with any beast and defile yourself with it; neither shall any woman yield herself to a beast to lie with it; it is confusion, perversion, and degradedly carnal. 24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for in all these things the nations are defiled which I am casting out before you. 25 And the land is defiled; therefore I visit the iniquity of it upon it, and the land itself vomits out her inhabitants.

====================

Leviticus 20:13 KJV If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 AMP If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
 
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mandyangel

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people disagree over this issue. thats fine. but the church doesn't need to accept homosexuality just as much as gay people don't need to accept the the church. people who are anti-gay marriage, like myself are sincere in their beliefs that it is a sin layed out in the bible and that its bad for families and society. theres no reason to attack anybody.
 
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KCKID

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You don't think that the results of 'straight' marriage (50% divorce rate/remarriages=sin) is bad for families and society?
 
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drich0150

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Your collective efforts are meaningless without precedent. You and I both know your speculation can be discarded as meaningless conjecture without a standing biblical example of all you have so valiantly taught. So [serious]-ly it's time for some quid pro quo. Now You provide something, anything, anywhere in the new or old testaments that shows a sanctified gay marriage.

After all you are indeed proclaiming a biblical permissibility of a gay marriage so show us where Gay marriage as been scripturally blessed by God... Can you provide anything that offers a clear concise statement to the validity of the doctrine you represent? In the verses you arbitrarily have dismissed their is a reoccurring pattern of a one man one woman marriage that God is willing to sanctify. Can you show anything that openly supports your position that these definitions have been expanded upon? Or do we all need to "study up and do our home work" in the exact same way you have to find the doctrine you claim is their??

Before we go though more of your "I said so theology." I ask that you please confirm or deny the existence of scripture used to support your position.
 
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drich0150

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Do they even make the effort to do that? I thought they simply ignored your lengthy explanations with evidentially support.

His explanations are usually not on topic. He like you has a difficult time is discussing anything not on your specific 5 verse plan of discussion. So most of the time his arguments are quickly identified and dismissed.
 
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drich0150

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You don't think that the results of 'straight' marriage (50% divorce rate/remarriages=sin) is bad for families and society?

Families and society aside, do you not fear God? If He did not Spare His own son for taking on your sin, then why would He spare you for not repenting of that sin?

This conversation is about much much more than the social impact Homosexuality has on our society. This discussion is about how Homosexuality is undermining the very Gospel Christ Jesus Died for.

Why can you not see that?
 
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Polycarp1

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I for one am NOT expecting any local church which finds no Biblical warrant for it to accept a gay marriage. I AM expecting two things:

1. That every individual who seeks Christ be given access to Him, and that every individual whatsoever be entitled to the Good News of forgiveness in Christ, without some people picking and choosing which sins of their own they will excuse away while holding others accountable for theirs.

2. That no person who has accepted Christ's grace should act to deny others theirgod-given rights at law, whatever the legislature and the courts determine those rights to be, and that they not sink alms given for upkeep of the church and relief of the poor into political campaigns, and condone or even promote blatant lies to be told to influence voters to vote as they wish.

I don't expect the church to "accept homosexuality" (at least not in the meaning some conservatives put on the word, of sexual activity) but I do expect them to accept homosexuals, i.e., people who have same-sex attractions unchangeable without God's help, sinners redeemed by His grace just like themselves.
 
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drich0150

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I for one am NOT expecting any local church which finds no Biblical warrant for it to accept a gay marriage. I AM expecting two things:
1. That every individual who seeks Christ be given access to Him,

We do not disagree here.

and that every individual whatsoever be entitled to the Good News of forgiveness in Christ, without some people picking and choosing which sins of their own they will excuse away while holding others accountable for theirs.
Our personal preferences have little to do with the standard set forth by the Lord. This works both ways! this also means we can not sin and pretend it is not a sin just because we have chose to involve ourselves in said sin.

Up until the point you introduced any of this when did identifying sin for the purpose of repentance, involve anything you have mentioned?


The argument before you does not condemn repentant sinners or those who are legitimately looking for the Expressed will of God. My efforts are directed at those who would change the gospel of Christ from one of forgiveness to one of an unbiblical acceptance of sin.
 
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[serious]

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Not quite, I'm still addressing the initial question of whether a gay couple is engaging in premarital sex discounting, for the moment, whether or not homosexuality is in itself a sin. And when we set that question aside, I see absolutely no scriptural support for refusing to recognize gay marriages.

As far as scriptural support for gay marriage, there is no where it is directly addressed. While there are certain rules about marriage (you should marry within the faith, you should marry with the intent to remain married forever, etc) none of them addresses required genders for marriage. None of them establishes that couples must have or be able to have children. None of them establishes any requirement that a same sex couple cannot meet.

Again, you set forth an idea that discounting the rightness of homosexuality itself, gay sex would run afoul of the premarital sex rule. This si what i have been addressing and will continue to address.
 
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LightHorseman

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This thread is about INFILTRATION of the Homosexual Doctrine into the Body of believers, not the INDOCTRINATION of the body of believers to the homosexual Doctrine. (Which seems to be the only topic "sniper guy" is prepared to discuss with me.)
"Sniper Guy"? is that in reference to me? Please confirm if it is so I can take the extraordinary amount of offence such a slur would warrant.
 
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