Forcing a homosexual to change dorm rooms, discrimination?

yasic · Mar 19, 2010

I just have to say that this thread reminds me of a story from the feminist movement.

A while ago, there were a male only and a female only prisons built side by side. Some of the jobs people could do were to be workmen at a construction site nearby carrying heavy loads.

The women from the female only prison noticed that all men were in shackles with a ball n' chain tied to them, while the females were only in shackles. They were so disturbed by this, that they caused a protest and refused to work until equality was had.

Sure enough, the next day, all female workmen at the construction site were given a ball n' chain to work with.

HannahBanana · Mar 19, 2010

lawtonfogle said:
Perhaps having a roommate will result in increased chances of entering a furious rage which will cause you to suddenly pull your your ridiculously over-sized FFVII sword and cut the school in half? I think we can come up with off the wall special cases where having/not having a roommate is in everyones best interest.

It's not an "off-the-wall special case," it's an example from my own life. My freshman year in college, my roommate decided on Move-In Day that she didn't want to room with me, so I was stuck without a roommate for the rest of the year (both semesters, in other words). I personally struggle with severe social anxiety (to the point that I'm mildly agoraphobic), suicidal thoughts, depression, and hypochondria, and, by the time May had rolled around, I was a complete mess. I was hardly attending my classes at all, due to the fact that my anxiety had completely taken over, and I had no one on-campus to talk to at all, other than my therapist, who was no help at all, since she was just as introverted as I was. I would have been greatly benefited by having a roommate, yet what you're saying is that I deserved to have gone through the hell that I did during my freshman year simply because I'm bisexual. If this were any other forum, with less stringent rules, I'd have a few choice words to say to you about that.

lawtonfogle · Mar 19, 2010

yasic said:
If a college does this, I have no issue with that.

And, as in the situation in the OP, we are dealing with minors?

I just feel homosexuals should be subject to the same rules heterosexuals are subject too, regardless of what they are for the specific college.

[sarcasm]
But they are. A male homosexual is allowed to marry a female and room with a male just like a male heterosexual is allowed to marry a female and room with a male.
[/sarcasm]

In all seriousness, we need to consider the base reason for having the rule. If we should not allow people who may possibly be attracted to room together, then if you are bisexual, sorry.

At the same time, I highly doubt any school which separates boys and girls are going to allow an asexual male and female room together.

lawtonfogle · Mar 19, 2010

HannahBanana said:
It's not an "off-the-wall special case," it's an example from my own life. My freshman year in college, my roommate decided on Move-In Day that she didn't want to room with me, so I was stuck without a roommate for the rest of the year (both semesters, in other words). I personally struggle with severe social anxiety (to the point that I'm mildly agoraphobic), suicidal thoughts, depression, and hypochondria, and, by the time May had rolled around, I was a complete mess. I was hardly attending my classes at all, due to the fact that my anxiety had completely taken over, and I had no one on-campus to talk to at all, other than my therapist, who was no help at all, since she was just as introverted as I was. I would have been greatly benefited by having a roommate, yet what you're saying is that I deserved to have gone through the hell that I did during my freshman year simply because I'm bisexual.

I'm saying if we should separate people who have a possibility for sexual attraction, then you not having the option to have a roommate is a natural logical conclusion of that rule.

That being said, you could not have forced someone to be your roommate anyways, and in all honesty, there are numerous people and personality types I can think of that would have only resulted in your situation being even worse in all likelihood.

If this were any other forum, with less stringent rules, I'd have a few choice words to say to you about that.

Would you like my email then?

Remember, I am not agreeing with the 'IF' part of the statement, only taking it to its natural (and seemingly absurd) conclusion.

yasic · Mar 19, 2010

lawtonfogle said:
And, as in the situation in the OP, we are dealing with minors?

same deal.

[sarcasm]
But they are. A male homosexual is allowed to marry a female and room with a male just like a male heterosexual is allowed to marry a female and room with a male.
[/sarcasm]

In all seriousness, we need to consider the base reason for having the rule. If we should not allow people who may possibly be attracted to room together, then if you are bisexual, sorry.

At the same time, I highly doubt any school which separates boys and girls are going to allow an asexual male and female room together.

I would say the asexual thing is a caution issue. It would be to prevent someone who claims to be asexual from doing so to room with someone of the opposite sex. Very few people are actually asexual and the majority of self-proclaimed asexual people that I* met were actually only saying so to fit into lgbta groups for the community while actively pursuing a specific sex of a partner.

*Only anecdotal evidence, I have no actual statistics on the matter.

Shrader25 · Mar 20, 2010

lawtonfogle said:
Or perhaps get over our sexophobia and allow people to pick whom they want a roommates, coed or not, sexual attraction or not. That or just have separate rooms for everyone. That works as well.

This sounds more cost effective.

Shrader25 · Mar 20, 2010

Verv said:
No. Rather, the way it was handled was fine: give them their own room in a normal building. If people ask why they do not have a roommate, they can do one of two things:

- Come out of the closet.
- Shrug and say they do not know why.

Your post though seems quite ready to alleviate one percieved situation and then put the other class of people in a rather precarious position.

two_commandments · Mar 20, 2010

Would it be more discrimination to have the homosexual to change rooms or to force the heterosexual to room with them? Either way you are "discriminating" one of the persons beliefs. Intolerance goes both ways, you should not be forced to reside with someone you view as wrong simply because of someone else's views, whether liberal or conservative.

BigBadWlf · Mar 20, 2010

Verv said:
They separate boys and girls to avoid sex issues.

It would just as soon be: we separate people attracted to men from the men so they do not have sex issues, and we separate people attracted to women from the women so they do not have any issues.

And moreover: we also separate them so there is not the awkwardness of being forced to be in various forms of undress before someone you belive to be attracted to you.

I would not feel comfortable coming out of the shower in just a towel in front of someone I knew was potentially sexually aroused by me (unless they were my spouse).

It is not discrimination but rather a sensible policy designed to better us.

You knowyears of playing sports, a tour in the army and going to gyms I must have showered with hundreds of gay men (some f whom I knew were gay)yet somehow I was never upset by this or even vaguely uncomfortable.

BigBadWlf · Mar 20, 2010

Verv said:
No. Rather, the way it was handled was fine: give them their own room in a normal building. If people ask why they do not have a roommate, they can do one of two things:

- Come out of the closet.
- Shrug and say they do not know why.

You should be given a room where there would not develop any sexual tension.

You are not a leper, and you are not separated from others. You are merely given a room that does not cause sexual issues to ever arise.

I am sure you are well behaved and a good, upright person.

But imagine a heterosexual student who is bunking with a homosexual or bisexual student that is sexually harassing them; or perhaps a homosexual or bisexual student who is being harassed by a straight roommate.

Or imagine how uncomfortable a person would potentially feel being sexually attracted to their roommate that comes out of the shower in a towel?

I know if I was rooming with a female I found sexually attractive, there would be tension in the sense that I would become sexually aroused if she was scantily clad and such, and I would not want that.

I lived with a woman who was not my girlfriend for about two months. I had a different girlfriend at the time. We'd see each other in different states of undress and what have you. One night, while we were drunk, we ended up making out and nearly having sex.

That was a lesson to the extent that I learned that even when you have no intention of something like that happening the circumstances can change.

Imagine two intoxicated roommates and the homosexual one suddenly makes a move on their roommate. Negative things could happen.

That is what is trying to be avoided.

If we are looking at discomfort then should we not pre-screen those with racial sensitivities so they would never have to share a dorm room with a person of color? Of course the easiest way to deal with this and to avoid offending any racists is to place non-whites in their own special roomsthat way no one has to be uncomfortable

OllieFranz · Mar 20, 2010

BigBadWlf said:
If we are looking at discomfort then should we not pre-screen those with racial sensitivities so they would never have to share a dorm room with a person of color? Of course the easiest way to deal with this and to avoid offending any racists is to place non-whites in their own special roomsthat way no one has to be uncomfortable

[sarcasm]Or better yet -- their own separate (but equal) schools.[/sarcasm]

HannahBanana · Mar 20, 2010

two_commandments said:
Would it be more discrimination to have the homosexual to change rooms or to force the heterosexual to room with them? Either way you are "discriminating" one of the persons beliefs. Intolerance goes both ways, you should not be forced to reside with someone you view as wrong simply because of someone else's views, whether liberal or conservative.

Since when would all heterosexuals be against the idea of rooming with a gay person? I don't understand why you seem to think that all heterosexuals hold conservative beliefs.

lawtonfogle · Mar 21, 2010

BigBadWlf said:
You knowyears of playing sports, a tour in the army and going to gyms I must have showered with hundreds of gay men (some f whom I knew were gay)yet somehow I was never upset by this or even vaguely uncomfortable.

Perhaps you are big and buff then. Do you consider it unreasonable for a woman to feel uncomfortable showering with a bunch of males because they are likely to be sexually attracted to her? If not, where is the difference when we replace woman with man?

lawtonfogle · Mar 21, 2010

BigBadWlf said:
If we are looking at discomfort then should we not pre-screen those with racial sensitivities so they would never have to share a dorm room with a person of color? Of course the easiest way to deal with this and to avoid offending any racists is to place non-whites in their own special roomsthat way no one has to be uncomfortable

Do you consider it unreasonable to not require a male and female to room together if it makes the female feel uncomfortable due to the possibility of sexual attraction? If not, why does this chance if we replace female with male?

Axioma · Mar 21, 2010

If a homosexual's room-mate is uncomfortable with the homosexual's homosexuality, it's only natural to make the person who is uncomfortable move.

If I'm okay with you being my roomie, but you aren't okay with me being your roomie, then you're the one who needs to find a new room, right?

lawtonfogle · Mar 21, 2010

Axioma said:
If a homosexual's room-mate is uncomfortable with the homosexual's homosexuality, it's only natural to make the person who is uncomfortable move.

If I'm okay with you being my roomie, but you aren't okay with me being your roomie, then you're the one who needs to find a new room, right?

Except uncomfortableness due to sexual attraction is treated differently than any other form. In most cases, there are rules to keep two people who may be sexually attracted from rooming together even if they are comfortable with them.

As long as you force boys who like girls and girls who like boys to not live together, then to not discriminate, you must force girls who like girls and boys who like boys to not live together. One could argue that we keep them separate on gender and not sexual attraction, but that is less of an honest argument than saying gays already have a equal right to marry.

Axioma · Mar 21, 2010

I'm not arguing they should have stayed together, I'm arguing that if the heterosexual has a problem and the homosexual doesn't, it doesn't make sense to make the homosexual move instead of the heterosexual.

lawtonfogle · Mar 21, 2010

Axioma said:
I'm not arguing they should have stayed together, I'm arguing that if the heterosexual has a problem and the homosexual doesn't, it doesn't make sense to make the homosexual move instead of the heterosexual.

Yes, I do see the sense in saying the one with the problem should move, but should it be up to the one with the problem to arranged to be moved, or should the admin handle that. And when they are fine living together, but the admin insist on separating them to avoid a problem even arising, who should move? I would suggest asking, and if no one volunteers, flipping a coin.

Robbie_James_Francis · Mar 22, 2010

lawtonfogle said:
Perhaps you are big and buff then. Do you consider it unreasonable for a woman to feel uncomfortable showering with a bunch of males because they are likely to be sexually attracted to her? If not, where is the difference when we replace woman with man?

Is the assumption that the reason that males and females have separate changing areas is because of sexual attraction?

I can definitely see your point (I guess it's pretty intuitive), but if you use public changing rooms, you already do so in the presence of some gay men. Have any of them come on to you? Have any made you uncomfortable when all you're doing is trying to get changed or have a shower?

But are you going to harass a woman because she's naked in front of you? Are you more likely to do so because she's wearing less clothing? I think it's more to do with biological sex than sex. I mean, we all only have to look down to see what we've got. It's surely more comfortable to get changed in front of people of the same sex, regardless of their sexuality. To extrapolate for a moment, women (gay and straight) talk about certain things relating to their shared biology with other women, and men (gay and straight) do the same.

I'm not saying I agree with separate changing rooms, I agree with a society in which they aren't necessary, where we're less sexualised and where women aren't victimised. Until that happens, and I hope it will happen though I doubt it will be in my lifetime, I can more than see the rationale for separate changing rooms based on biological sex

flicka · Mar 22, 2010

After thinking about all the angles I do think what they did is best, considering the people in question were all minors at the time there are other issues on top of everything else. My feeling is that as long as everyone got to stay in school and get an education and not be harassed it didn't matter HOW they choose the room assignments.

Forcing a homosexual to change dorm rooms, discrimination?

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