For Whom did Christ die?

[oworm]

Hit the poll and explain your vote.

 

[cygnusx1]

All the sins of some humans I voted , in essense because I don't believe Christ's blood can be ignored by God the Father .

 

[Rightglory]

If Christ in fact atoned for even one sin, He of necessity atoned for all sins.

 

[nobdysfool]

If Christ in fact atoned for even one sin, He of necessity atoned for all sins.

Not so. Scripture clearly states that Christ died for the sins of His People. Not all are His people.

 

[MrSnow]

Who will be raised from the dead, and why?

 

[Rightglory]

nobdysfool,

Not so. Scripture clearly states that Christ died for the sins of His People. Not all are His people.

They would definitely be included. But He did not atone for particular sins, or some sin or some kind of sin.l He atoned for the sin of the world. There is not a single sin not covered by His Blood. It is impossible to separate sin, one from another. Sin is sin. If He atoned for sin it of necessity is all sin.

 

[cygnusx1]

nobdysfool,

They would definitely be included. But He did not atone for particular sins, or some sin or some kind of sin.l He atoned for the sin of the world. There is not a single sin not covered by His Blood. It is impossible to separate sin, one from another. Sin is sin. If He atoned for sin it of necessity is all sin.

then explain exactly what is the PURPOSE of atoning for the "unforgivable sin" ?

 

[oworm]

There is not a single sin not covered by His Blood.

Why then, are all men not free from the punishment due because of their sins?

 

[nobdysfool]

then explain exactly what is the PURPOSE of atoning for the "unforgivable sin" ?

The unforgivable sin is attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan. God Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, said that this particular sin would never be forgiven, in this world, or the next. So, it is certain that not all sins, inclusively, have been atoned for. This one sin is excluded from atonement.

Those who commit this sin, are lost forever. The good news is, that this sin cannot be committed by accident. The Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus spoke to who He said had committed this sin, did so with full knowledge of what they were doing, and they did so deliberately, for personal gain, and to preserve their hold over the people. Thus, anyone who is worried they have committed this sin, could not have, because once committed, they would not care.

Even God has drawn a line beyond which He will not save. That is a hard truth for the Arminian "I lifted me" crowd to accept, because it destroys the image of the meek and mild, milque-toast, plastic bobblehead, wimpy Jesus who loves everybody, and can't bear to condemn even one person to reprobation, because it isn't "loving", and isn't "fair".

Scripture is clear. Jesus died to save His People and He made clear that not all are His Sheep.

 

[beloved57]

Jesys christ died for his sheep jn 10:


11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

He died for his church eph 5:


25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[Anglian]

I voted a) because He calls all me to Him that they should turn from their sins, receive Him as Lord and have life eternal.

John 17:2
as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

As to who is saved, that is known only to the One Just Judge, and heaven forfend that any should commit the impiety of assuming His place.

peace,

Anglian

 

[cygnusx1]

I voted a) because He calls all me to Him that they should turn from their sins, receive Him as Lord and have life eternal.

If you mean 'all without discrimination' then sure "all" are outwardly called , but if you mean 'all without exception' then you have three problems ;

1. Not everyone has heard the Gospel , so not everyone has been "called". were the Amalekites called ?

2. Even amongst those who have heard the Gospel , it is clear that many have heard a distortion of the good news , the Gospel does not go out with equal force.

3. The Indiscriminate call to sinners is in no way a contradiction of definite Atonement , for : many are called BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN.

 

[Anglian]

If you mean 'all without discrimination' then sure "all" are outwardly called , but if you mean 'all without exception' then you have three problems ;

1. Not everyone has heard the Gospel , so not everyone has been "called". were the Amalekites called ?

2. Even amongst those who have heard the Gospel , it is clear that many have heard a distortion of the good news , the Gospel does not go out with equal force.

3. The Indiscriminate call to sinners is in no way a contradiction of definite Atonement , for : many are called BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN.

Indeed, but His message is for all, and if all do not hear it, then we, as Christians, are at grave fault. He died for us all. But if we do not receive Him, that is our problem - and, as evangelists, our challenge.

peace,

Anglian

 

[Wizzer]

If Christ in fact atoned for even one sin, He of necessity atoned for all sins.

Not so. Scripture clearly states that Christ died for the sins of His People. Not all are His people.

Hello all,

I suggest that a logical error has been made here in the 2nd post. Let's say for the sake of argument that Christ died for the sins of all people, then wouldn't it also be true that He died for the sins of His people as well? For are not His people a subset of all people? (And are not all people in some sense "His people"?) So then, if He died for the sins of all, then He surely died for the sins of some.

I think the real question is who are those who benefit from His death? Is it all, or is it some? (And what must one do to become one of these beneficiaries?)

 

[Rajni]

I voted "All the sins of all humans", because I believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.




.

 

[cygnusx1]

Hello all,

I suggest that a logical error has been made here in the 2nd post. Let's say for the sake of argument that Christ died for the sins of all people, then wouldn't it also be true that He died for the sins of His people as well? For are not His people a subset of all people? (And are not all people in some sense "His people"?) So then, if He died for the sins of all, then He surely died for the sins of some.

I think the real question is who are those who benefit from His death? Is it all, or is it some? (And what must one do to become one of these beneficiaries?)

but to say "He died for the sins of His people" which is taken from scripture , cannot logically mean He died for the sins of all people , especially seeing as the sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven ....which sin His people can never commit . the real question is what did Christ purpose - and what did He achieve ?

 

[Anglian]

I voted "All the sins of all humans", because I believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

That's an excellent way of putting it.

Indeed, I'm slightly puzzled by the other options, and assume it must have something to do with Western theological divisions, as the Eastern Churches have always taken the view that He died for us all - but that we have to receive Him, by faith, in our hearts, with thanksgiving.

peace,

Anglian

 

[cygnusx1]

I voted "All the sins of all humans", because I believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.




.

so all humans have had their sins taken away ?

wow !

I am certain everyone will be pleased they are going to heaven !!!

 

[Rajni]

so all humans have had their sins taken away ?

wow !

I am certain everyone will be pleased they are going to heaven !!!

That's just what my bible says. It could very well be that other versions say that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of only some of the world, but I rather doubt it.

God is the Savior of all men, especially (not 'exclusively') of believers.



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[cygnusx1]

That's just what my bible says. It could very well be that other versions say that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of only some of the world, but I rather doubt it.

God is the Savior of all men, especially (not 'exclusively') of believers.



.
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mmmm , "World" (Gk . Kosmos) doesn't mean everybody ;

here's an example ;

'Kosmos' is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12:47; 1 Corinthians 4:9; 2 Corinthians 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of 'the world' in each place.


here's a further example , this one blows apart the theory world=all ;



'Kosmos' is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Romans 3:6 'If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you.' Believers do not 'hate' Christ, so that 'the world' here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. 'God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world.' Here is another passage where 'the world' cannot mean 'you, me, and everybody,' for believers will not be 'judged' by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view.


Biblical texts that teach Christ died for the "world" or for "all" do not contradict definite redemption. By the word "world", the Bible often draws attention not to human demography, but the sinfulness of mankind. Christ died for a sinful world. B. B. Warfield comments on the meaning "world" in John 3:16, "It is not here a term of extension so much as a term of intensity. Its primary connotation is ethical, and the point of its employment is not to suggest that the world is so big that it takes a great deal of love to embrace it all, but that the world is so bad that it takes a great kind of love to love it at all, and much more to love it as God has loved it when he gave his Son for it." (The Saviour of the World, Banner of Truth Trust, 1991, p. 120-121). John also wrote of Christ, "he himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2). John draws attention to the ethical meaning of world in 2:15-17 of this letter. But in the text quoted, the apostle wanted to show that Christ did not die for a privileged minority among the people of God, but for a whole world of lost sinners. This does not necessarily mean that he died for all human beings inclusively. But that Christ was the propitiation for the whole world extensively - for all peoples in this fallen world. Those who hold to limited atonement should glory in such statements rather than be embarrassed by them. This is our message, "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Saviour of the world." (1 John 4:14).

http://exiledpreacher.blogspot.com/2007/10/ten-things-on-limited-atonement.html