For those who know a bit of history...

[Nanopants]

How plausible does it seem to you that Stoicism (or some variation of it), was adopted and proliferated throughout the Westernized world by Christianity?

How plausible does it seem to you that now Western societies are beginning to see the rejection of related paradigms, through changes in culture (such as in accepted forms of entertainment), which seem to embrace many of the "passions" that I'm assuming were thought to be "disordered" and led to suffering?

 

[quatona]

How plausible does it seem to you that Stoicism (or some variation of it), was adopted and proliferated throughout the Westernized world by Christianity?

How plausible does it seem to you that now Western societies are beginning to see the rejection of related paradigms, through changes in culture (such as in accepted forms of entertainment), which seem to embrace many of the "passions" which I presume were thought to be "disordered" and led to suffering?

Correct me if I am wrong but you almost make it sound like until modern days´ hedonism appeared on the scene Stoicism was held as an unquestioned/unquestionable philosophy in the western world.

 

[Nanopants]

Correct me if I am wrong but you almost make it sound like until modern days´ hedonism appeared on the scene Stoicism was held as an unquestioned/unquestionable philosophy in the western world.

In the Church that may be very close to accurate, if it has adopted Stoicism, but I'm not sure that it has, and I'm asking because I'm not very familiar with ancient philosophies that were popular at around the time of Christ. I assume that certain aspects of Western culture (especially common beliefs on morals) have been heavily influenced by, and at times, dominated by the Church. I'm not implying that Stoicism has never been questioned or is unquestionable.

 

[brightlights]

How plausible does it seem to you that Stoicism (or some variation of it), was adopted and proliferated throughout the Westernized world by Christianity?

How plausible does it seem to you that now Western societies are beginning to see the rejection of related paradigms, through changes in culture (such as in accepted forms of entertainment), which seem to embrace many of the "passions" that I'm assuming were thought to be "disordered" and led to suffering?

Christianity and stoicism are very different. They conflict at many points.

 

[Nanopants]

Christianity and stoicism are very different. They conflict at many points.

How so, and if so, where did we get the concept of "sinful passion" as mentioned in NT scripture? I don't see anything even close to it in the Jewish OT.

 

[brightlights]

How so, and if so, where did we get the concept of "sinful passion" as mentioned in NT scripture? I don't see anything even close to it in the Jewish OT.

Sin is thoroughly an Old Testament concept and the New Testament is a thoroughly Old Testament book. What do you understand the concept of "sinful passion" to mean?

 

[Nanopants]

Sin is thoroughly an Old Testament concept and the New Testament is a thoroughly Old Testament book. What do you understand the concept of "sinful passion" to mean?

This isn't about the concept of sin. "Passion" is, in my understanding, a concept that Stoics spent a good amount of time considering, and might even be attributed to Stoicism itself. The Apostles used the term but did not define it, and I assume that when they wrote their epistles, they were addressing a pre-existant concept in the minds of their intended audience, else the term would be perceived as nonsense. The question is, where did this concept come from if not Stoicism? Hence the thread.

Down a more theological rabbit trail, it's noteworthy that the Apostles also wrote of the destruction of a certain understanding, but that subject is not the focus of this discussion.

 

[brightlights]

Epithumea is the Greek word often translated as "sinful passion". It literally means "over-desire" - to love something inordinately. It is directly connected to the first commandment and the concept of worship. A sinful passion worships a created thing in place of the creator.

 

[Nanopants]

Epithumea is the Greek word often translated as "sinful passion". It literally means "over-desire" - to love something inordinately. It is directly connected to the first commandment and the concept of worship. A sinful passion worships a created thing in place of the creator.

So you say. What are your assumptions founded on?

 

[brightlights]

So you say. What are your assumptions founded on?

The etymology of the word itself along with the general body of biblical theology. If you read the whole Bible it's just obviously the meaning.

 

[smaneck]

How plausible does it seem to you that Stoicism (or some variation of it), was adopted and proliferated throughout the Westernized world by Christianity?

Speaking as a historian Stoicism did have a significant impact on Christianity. It had an even greater impact on Islam.

 

[Nanopants]

Speaking as a historian Stoicism did have a significant impact on Christianity. It had an even greater impact on Islam.

That's interesting, and surprising.

 

[Loudmouth]

Instead of stoicism, I think you are actually thinking of asceticism which is more in line with Paul's teachings.

"Asceticism (/əˈsɛtɪsɪz(&#601m/; from the Greek: ἄσκησις áskēsis, "exercise" or "training") is a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from various worldly pleasures, often with the aim of pursuing religious and spiritual goals."
Asceticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[smaneck]

Instead of stoicism, I think you are actually thinking of asceticism which is more in line with Paul's teachings.

I don't think we see Stoicism so much in the Bible but rather in the Early Church Fathers, particularly in the thinking of St. Ambrose of Milan.

 

[Nanopants]

I don't think it was taught by the Apostles so much as addressed in their epistles. Being a Greek philosophy, the theory behind my question is that it had influenced the cultures they were addressing in some of their epistles to the Greeks and others under the influence of Hellenization. I'm thinking some of the theologians in later centuries may have read these epistles as though they were intended to support their preconceived philosophies, whereas the Apostles may not have intended for that at all, instead pointing to a much more ancient and mystical kind of thought or reasoning that was characteristic of the prophetic traditions of the Semitic line. Case in point: nothing like the Greek understanding of "passion" is found in Jewish scripture.