for those who believe in OSAS...

[A Brother In Christ]

romans 13:10-14..... sinning still saved

 

[MamaZ]

A Person that is saved does not continue in sin. For now we have Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For Christ in us gives us power over our flesh and sin. Do we sin yes. Do we live a life of sin nope. We all will stumble fall and sin for sin dwells within us. We have our advocate with the Father. Jesus. When one is truly saved and born again it is a life altering experience with the Power of Christ in one. Not of outside works that makes us clean ,but because Christ has cleansed us we have become new.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

continued in sin... how long is this...

1 jn 3:2-3

 

[BrotherDave]

The wedding feast in Matt 22 describes the wedding feast of the bride and lamb. Only those God has saved will be seated at the feast. When God uses the figures as not having a wedding garment it means he is still under the wrath of God. He is not saved and will be cast away. The fact that the king calls him a friend shows that someone may be close to truth but being close does not count. A person is either saved or not. This is also shown in Matt 7:18-24 were God is talking about the last day when many will say Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and then Christ says “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” These poor people may have been in a church their whole life believing they were saved and doing good works but they were not following the one true gospel of grace alone. They were not listening to God.

So when God saves us, all our sins past present and future have been paid for by Christ. We now wear the wedding garment and our desire is to live righteously. Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

• Php 2:12-14 was written with the sufferings of the Philippians in mind. Php 2:12 is tied to Php 1:7, Paul is again recalling that they were a faithful congregation and not afraid to witness whether Paul was with them or not. They were obedient.
• “Work out your own salvation” means that they must display the fact that they have been saved while in the midst of suffering. According to v 14 this is done without murmuring and disputing. They should not react in bitterness or despair to troubles that come upon them.
• Verse 12 does not mean we are responsible for the final outcome of our salvation. The words are “work out” not work for. We cannot earn salvation we display its effects in our lives after God saves us.
• “Fear & trembling” do not refer to their reaction and they are not afraid of God. These words remind us God is pure and holy. The Lord alone must receive all the glory for a person’s creation and redemption. Only true believers understand the majesty of God (Heb 1:8, 4:13). God is highly exalted (v10) the Philippians recognize that their savior is God, all powerful and all wise.
  
  Fear & trembling may be illustrated by imagining we are leaning against a guard rail on the edge of a cliff hundreds of meters high overlooking a powerful roaring waterfall. The power of the water may be harnessed for our benefit and the rail may keep us safe but we can understand the demise of anyone who would challenge the water’s flow. Likewise the power of God is impressive and should be respected. Only those saved by God realize the power of God to create, save and perfectly judge.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The garment that we will have to be clothed with is righteousness.

Yes, but the righteousness is Christ’s righteousness which He gives to His elect the moment they are saved.

God's righteousness which can only take effect in our lives when we make the effort to give our lives over to him and to resist the devil. Once it takes effect is leads to our righteousness.

Before God saves us we are wicked and belong to Satan and cannot break the bonds. We naturally lust after sinful things. Effort is a work we do and we are not saved by our works. Once God saves a person he has a new soul and then good works and righteousness will be displayed through his life.

Once we surrender he works in us to do the things that he wants us to do. He works in us so that we can be righteous and our deeds can be righteous. He works in us so that we can be righteous. God had no hands and feet but our own. He works through us. But we must let him work. When we do that we become clothed with righteousness and we become fit for the kingdom. It is not about accepting Christ today and not thinking about anything else.

I agree, He works in his chosen. He calls them through the hearing of the gospel, saves them when He wants to and then they naturally do good works and turn from sin. A truly saved person always thinks about what God wants and lives to His glory.

...When the man was asked why he had to wrong garment he could not answer. He had no excuse because the garment was free.

The man thought he could just accept and attend. The garment was not free. The garment had to be given to him and it was not.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Only those chosen and saved by God will overcome and they will be clothed in white garment. But God does all the work.

Don't let anyone fool you. We must overcome to be clothed. It is not by our strength that we overcome but by God's strength. Those who say OSAS and are not overcomers will not be clothed and will be cast into outer darkeness.

Agreed that it is by God’s strength we overcome. He chooses to save someone and right at that moment we are reborn and as God’s spirit witnesses with ours we will overcome and persevere because we cannot lose our salvation which is eternal life. We are clothed with Christ’s righteousness at the moment He saves us.

Those cast into outer darkness were never really saved by God. They are not clothed in Christ’s righteousness even though they may believe they accepted Christ and are doing good works. These people have put their trust in their own ability to believe and repent.

Belief, faith and real repentance comes from the heart. Before salvation we all have evil, stony hearts and are not capable of doing these works the way God requires. This is why Jesus had to come and pay for the sins of His elect. He paid for all their sins as proven by His statement “it is finished.” At some point in the life an elect individual they will hear the gospel, God will give them a new heart and they will then truly believe and repent should they fall into sin. A saved person will always pay attention to what they are saying and doing to make sure they are glorifying God. A saved person becomes very sensitive or aware of sin and will avoid it.

Saved means saved. Jesus did not give his life to save people if they say they believe and live righteously. It is impossible for anyone to live sinless on this earth in our current sin cursed body and spiritually dead soul.

When God saves someone they are reborn with a new resurrected soul in which they never want to sin. This new soul has eternal life. As a result a change can be seen in the way a person lives. He no longer will lust after old desires that brought pleasure. He often looses friends that think he has been brainwashed by a cult or something because he now wants to live for the Lord and put His desires ahead of his own. Think about how God changed Paul. A saved person loves God’s word and can’t get enough of it. As Paul described, the battle is then between his saved soul or inner man which only wants to do things God’s way and a cursed physical body that still lusts after sin (Rom 7:24; 8:10). Now should a saved person give into fleshly desires then he will feel terrible, fall to his knees and pray God for forgiveness and strength to turn from the sin.

After we are truly saved by God we will live a much more God glorifying life because his spirit witnesses with ours and we become more sensitive to sin and start to truly focus on spiritual things. Someone God saves will not return to old sinful ways.

 

[MamaZ]

If we are not saved by our works how can we loose salvation because of our works?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Romans 9:11

 

[Big Tuck]

Hello Paisley!

"Read the book of James.

OSAS leaves no room for repentance, and ignores what Jesus said to repent of our sins. It is pretty farfetched and egotistical to think that you can sin, and not have to repent of anything. Repentance and prayer keeps our heart and mind in the right place. To go about day to day living, thinking you are saved while you don't have to pay attention to what you are doing, or how you are saying things to others, that your words may hurt them, or whatever you may be doing, is not paying attention to what the Apostles taught us.

As I said before, read the book of James (the one Martin Luther wanted to throw out of the Bible) - and OSAS and the book of James is a complete opposite of each other."

I don't believe that James and OSAS are even close to being at odds w/ one another. The whole idea you have in James 2:17 is that faith without works is dead and that is absolutely true. Some people take OSAS and try to say that this leads to antinomianism (i.e. I can sin w/o repentance and be just fine) and that is definitely wrong. Someone who thinks that way is most likely not saved (Jude 3-4). If someone is truly saved they will be heartbroken over sin and will repent because of their love for God and desire to glorify Him. The whole point of James is that if someone truly is saved, their lives will reflect it in what they do. Faith alone is what saves us, but saving faith is never alone (Eph. 2:8-9 and James 2:17)

I believe OSAS is true because salvation is dependant upon God and not me. If it were dependant upon man we would all be taost b/c ALL of us are unfaithful. When you were saved, the penalty of your sin (not just you individual sins, but your sin as a whole) was paid for by the shed blood of Christ. The Scriptures say that all who believe are justified...made right before God. And that all that God has justified He has glorified. (Rom. 8:28-30). Your salvation in God's eyes is already complete because He will not go back on His justification of you by His Son and He won't quit working on you until the day of Christ (Phil. 1:6). Salvation is not a work of my will but a total work of God in my life. I wasn't saved because of my will, but because of God's will (John 1:13). The works that I do don't contribute one ounce to my salvation, nor do they keep me in the faith. Rather, they are in place to show that I truly believe and have been saved by Christ.

I would love to continue a discussion like this, but sadly I need to go.

In Christ

Matt

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I believe OSAS is true because salvation is dependant upon God and not me. If it were dependant upon man we would all be taost b/c ALL of us are unfaithful. In Christ

Matt

amen