Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
If you know so much about biology, then explain to me the physical processes in the brain that produces the human “will”?You should really take a biology class sometime
If you know so much about biology, then explain to me the physical processes in the brain that produces the human “will”?
Interesting. I think I read this somewhere too.Why not do some research yourself. It's only a google away you know.
(I remember reading about this subject in some book on the brain. I haven't got time to google it myself as I'm off home, but brain readings in experimenst can reveal decisions being made 5 or 6 seconds before conscious thought is involved. Maybe someone can find it for me. Once again, it's a fascinating subject, with surprises for both religious and non-religious people.)
Define "human will" for me first. I don't want to misrepresent your position.
As a human I can learn to make one. Monkeys cant, and never will. Thats the difference.A nuclear weapon is simply an advanced tool. You couldn't make a nuclear weapon. That doesn't make you any less human.
Isnt the evidence obvious? Robots are driven by electricity. Humans are driven by free-will. I can choose not to eat no matter how many neurons are firing in my brain telling me Im hungry.You have no evidence for this, no matter what analogy you use. You're just making it up to fit in with a preconceived notion of the nonphysical "will".
Hunger and thirst maybe, but desire is of the will. This is why I can desire not to stop the pain.There's the fact that hunger, thirst, the desire to stop pain all come from neurons firing in your brain. Why would any other urge or impulse be any different?
I’m not trying to separate the brain from the mind. The mind needs a brain. I am simply stating that the human “will” is not generated by the brain, but it works through the brain. So if the brain is altered the “will” is affected.Where is your evidence that the mind is separate from the body? There are many, many instances in the research where it is clear that altering the brain alters the mind. You can't separate the two.
It was predicted that there is a nonphysical element to the human mind/brain, so it’s no surprise scientists can’t figure it out.My point about other organs was that you are perfectly fine in accepting physical explanations for those organs because it is so clearly demonstrated that you'd be considered a fool not to accept them. But the brain...ah...there is some ambiguity there. It's much more abstract. The consensus isn't as clear. We must insert the supernatural there! What's going to happen to your God of the Gaps when brain function gets more conclusively mapped? It will just move to a new gap...just like how God used to be behind the thunder and lightning, used to be in the ocean, and used to be in the stars.
The human “will”.Me: there is no evidence of anything beyond the physical
You: PROVE IT!
Ya think?This is like asking me to "disprove" God's existence. Why should I have to? You're the one making the claim. All I'm saying is that there is no reason to believe the mind is any different than the body.
My claim about the nonphysical “will” is not a scientific claim; it’s a theological claim that science is yet to falsify. You falsified “young earth” claim by showing the earth was old. Surely you can do the same with my claim!You are the one claiming that there MUST be a supernatural "will" tacked on to the physical. Occam's razor is with me on this one - you are the one that is adding extraneous information.
But you cannot demonstrate that what you detect generates the human “will”. You are blindly assuming.The evidence is that all we ever detect is physical and nothing else.
If it’s nonphysical then what kind of evidence would you expect?Now, you're the one making the claim that there is more than meets the eye. Show us evidence that human will is nonphysical.
The human “will” drives our body through the use of brain power.In fact, show me even a single instance where the nonphysical can verifiably and demonstrably explain anything at all?
Im not trying to separate the brain from the mind. The mind needs a brain. I am simply stating that the human will is not generated by the brain, but it works through the brain. So if the brain is altered the will is affected.
It was predicted that there is a nonphysical element to the human mind/brain, so its no surprise scientists cant figure it out.
My claim about the nonphysical will is not a scientific claim; its a theological claim that science is yet to falsify. You falsified young earth claim by showing the earth was old. Surely you can do the same with my claim!
As a human I can learn to make one. Monkeys cant, and never will. Thats the difference.
But you also have other neurons firing in your brain telling you not to eat, for whatever evolutionary reason. There's a shortage of food, you are overweight, or you're trying to prove a religious point. If you're hooked up to an EEG machine, we can look at the brain activity that triggers this. And we can affect the "will" to perform actions with various chemical and electrical stimulation. If the will is nonphysical, then why can it be changed by taking very physical things like antidepressants, marijuana, alcohol, or LSD?Isnt the evidence obvious? Robots are driven by electricity. Humans are driven by free-will. I can choose not to eat no matter how many neurons are firing in my brain telling me Im hungry.
Hunger and thirst maybe, but desire is of the will. This is why I can desire not to stop the pain.
The human will has to do with our wants and desires and the choices we freely make to fulfill those wants and desires.Define "human will" for me first. I don't want to misrepresent your position.
The human will has to do with our wants and desires and the choices we freely make to fulfill those wants and desires.
It is our wants and desires and the choices we freely make to fulfill those wants and desires.He didn't ask what it "has to do with," he asked what it is.
This is a simple question.
It is our wants and desires and the choices we freely make to fulfill those wants and desires.
It is our wants and desires and the choices we freely make to fulfill those wants and desires.
The manufacturers do.
The Manufacturer does.
Only of its false.
At least you are willing to admit the possibility of something nonphysical. Not many others do.
Do I?
I suppose you would like me to deny God being a true fact too, right? Sorry.
The manufacturers do.
The Manufacturer does.
Only of its false
I suppose you would like me to deny God being a true fact too, right? Sorry
I am assuming but not blindingly. We've never seen anything nonphysical. Do you know of a reason why we should think there's more to the universe than what what can be detected?But you cannot demonstrate that what you detect generates the human will. You are blindly assuming.
I'm not going to do your homework. You made the claim, you provide the evidence.If its nonphysical then what kind of evidence would you expect?
What did it predict and how can we verify this?Lets just say I have a reliable, age-old prediction that there is more to the human mind than just a physical brain:
There is a spirit in man...For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. - Job 32:8,1 Cor 2:11.
You're wrong. That quote talks about psychic abilities.Based on this prediction we would expect that scientists, who rely on physical observations alone, would not be able to comprehend how the human mind/brain works. And this is exactly what we see; scientists have a much easier time trying to explain an infinite universe than they do trying to explain a little brain in a human head, even though there are so many brains walking around here on earth. They seem to be confirming the prediction.
The human will drives our body through the use of brain power.
This claim is as falsifiable as Noahs global flood, so why cant you falsify it? If you are so sure the human will is physical then this should be easy enough. Provide the evidence. If not, my claim is a valid as yours, or even more valid since I have an age-old prediction that scientific ignorance about the human mind/brain seems to be confirming.
These are instinctual, programmed drives of the physical mind highlighted through external stimuli in a physical environment. Even if I am thirsty and want to drink water, this can be easily overridden by a desire to not want to drink. And such a desire can be fulfilled. The sole desire to drink water when thirst erupts or the inability to defy such would be a demonstration of a lack of free will.Well, the wants and desires are easily explained by the reaction our body has to certain stimuli. Whether that's hunger, thirst, sexual arousal, or the chemicals associated with the memory of a good or bad experience.
You'll find most of your thoughts are directly or indirectly related to social status, sex and the satisfaction of physical needs and appetites.These are instinctual, programmed drives of the physical mind highlighted through external stimuli in a physical environment. Even if I am thirsty and want to drink water, this can be easily overridden by a desire to not want to drink. And such a desire can be fulfilled. The sole desire to drink water when thirst erupts or the inability to defy such would be a demonstration of a lack of free will.
The same with responses to the environs at hand. Purely physical stimuli in a physical world will engage the desire for purely material constructs and the fulfillment of such is purely instinctual, where the will to oppose or act in defiance of that desire is weakened or inevitably vanquished.
But Im glad to hear you do read what I say.
Earlier you had some ideas about noahs ark, i responded and you never let me know if you saw it, understood it, or had questions.
Im not looking to get people to "admit they are wrong" at least not in principle, tho when im right and they are wrong, it would be nice if i felt like i got thru and they could see it. You have some odd ideas about biology and geology, and I would be interested to see if you would be willing to learn where your ideas are off.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?