For JWs and LDS

[SMP]

Hi, this is my first post. I think I will find this site edifying, as I enjoy learning about God and about my fellow believers of all Christian faiths. I have a question that is addressed to Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-Day Saints. I have read about this topic from second-hand sources online, but I thought I'd check with JWs and LDS to find out what you yourselves have to say about it.

I have read that you believe yourselves to be the only "true" Christians. I'm not singling you out by any means, because I know many Catholics, Protestants, fundamentalists, and people in many other sects and denominations believe this about themselves as well. They all believe the Holy Spirit has revealed that they alone are "in the truth", and that their interpretation of the Scriptures is the only correct one. I realize a lot of people who don't even go to a church believe this about themselves, too.

Basically, it seems that anyone can make the Scriptures say whatever they want them to say and claim that the Holy Spirit has revealed their "true" meaning. In reality, however, I think this has more to do with a person's temperament, culture, upbringing, education, life experiences, pride, fear, arrogance, and many other hidden factors than with the Holy Spirit, for God is not the author of confusion.

Anyway, my question is: Do you, Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-Day Saints, believe that you are the only "true" Christians, and that all others, i.e. Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostals, Quakers, Presbyterians, Mennonites, Associated Bible Students, Reorganized LDS, etc. and etc. and (sigh) etc. are NOT Christians at all?

Or perhaps, do you believe that they are indeed Christians, albeit in error?

Let me quote from A.W Tozer's Man the Dwelling Place of God:

"The Early Christians, under the fire of persecution, driven from place to place, sometimes deprived of the opportunity for careful instruction in the faith, wanted a 'rule' which would sum up all that they must believe to assure their everlasting welfare. Out of this critical need arose the creeds. Of the many, the Apostles' Creed is the best known and best loved, and has been reverently repeated by the largest number of believers through the centuries. And for millions of good men that creed contains the essentials of truth. Not all truths, to be sure, but the heart of all truth. It served in trying days as a kind of secret password that instantly united men to each other when passed from lip to lip by followers of the Lamb. It is fair to say, then, that the truth shared by saints in the apostolic fellowship is the same truth which is outlined for convenience in the Apostles' Creed." Chapter 19, The Communion Of Saints

In my opinion, anyone who can read the Apostles' Creed (without necessarily embracing the creed for its own sake) and not disagree with those few basics of the faith, whether or not he believes in the Trinity, hellfire, paradise on Earth, the WBTS, the Book of Mormon, spirit prison, the Pope, arianism, speaking in tongues, transubstantiation, calvinism, arminianism, or any number of other doctrines purported to be biblical, could be a genuine Christian and have the Holy Spirit. This goes along with my belief in the universal, as well as the local, church. I don't think it's a matter of some churches being true while others are false (not that there aren't any false churches), because the Church is the mystical Body of Christ, which is a SPIRITUAL reality that cannot be defined rationally by physical or doctrinal boundaries.

In the words of Watchman Nee, "He who regards appearance takes all the churches as true. He who judges rationally finds some to be true and others false. Only in the eyes of the one who has touched the spiritual reality is the church spiritual beyond question." Watchman Nee, in Spiritual Reality Or Obsession

So, if I believe everything that is outlined in the Apostles' Creed (which nether affirms nor denies the doctrines above) but I don't attend a Kingdom Hall or a LDS congregation, does that mean I am headed for annihilation (JW) or merely the terrestrial kingdom (LDS)? If so, I guess that's not so bad. Many (perhaps most) churches would exclude me from membership for not accepting every jot and tittle of their doctrines as well. That's why I choose to merely attend church rather than become a fully vested member.

I realize I may have rambled a bit, but thank you for your input. I don't plan on replying to any of your responses, but I look forward to reading them. Sam

 

[GarySneakers]

Why are you looking at the words of men. Creeds of who, the one's who wrote them.

Mark 15:38 The Temple is Wide Open. "Go In".

All religions are true. Yet no one "Go's In".

Watchmen of what?

The Portal, is shown to you.

 

[Ran77]

Hey SMP,

The LDS do not believe that anyone who is not of our faith is non-Christian. A Christian is anyone who follows the teachings of God. Hope that answers your question.

Ran77

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hey SMP,

The LDS do not believe that anyone who is not of our faith is non-Christian. A Christian is anyone who follows the teachings of God. Hope that answers your question.

Ran77

Ran, do you believe anyone who does not belong to your church can be exalted to the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom?

 

[Enkil]

Why are you looking at the words of men. Creeds of who, the one's who wrote them.

Mark 15:38 The Temple is Wide Open. "Go In".

All religions are true. Yet no one "Go's In".

Watchmen of what?

The Portal, is shown to you.

By combining adjunctions and certain deformations, any associated supporting element appears to correlate rather closely with irrelevant intervening contexts in selectional rules. I suggested that these results would follow from the assumption that most of the methodological work in modern linguistics delimits a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test. Of course, the fundamental error of regarding functional notions as categorial does not readily tolerate the levels of acceptability from fairly high (eg (99a)) to virtual gibberish (eg (98d)). It appears that the theory of syntactic features developed earlier may remedy and, at the same time, eliminate the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol. Furthermore, an important property of these three types of EC is, apparently, determined by an important distinction in language use.

The Chomskybot

 

[JoJo50]

Sam

I am a servant of Jehovah God, (Jws), I will post God’s words, and try my best to explain. First God wanted people to use his name, (Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name). because there are so MANY “lords, and gods)” and (2 Chron. 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land). many have said, we just want these scriptures to apply to us,. but God's words are straight to the point. Jesus even revealed his Father’s name to the men who his Father sent to him,(meaning to be taught), John 17:6 I have manifested, (to make known, show, display), thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.


Many refuse to believe, even though these scriptures are shown, but we HAVE to use his name. NOT only that, we have to get to know him, as we so do Jesus…if we want to gain life , (John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). Many believe they’re doing Jesus will, but Jesus TOLD us to do his FATHER’S will,…IF we want to gain life ,( Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven). If we don’t Jesus DOESN’T see us as his spiritual family ,( Matt. 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother). We can’t straddle the fence, when it comes to God, we either serve him, or satan . which means we can’t try to be friends with the world, and God too ,(James 4:4, 1John 2:15,19 ,Jesus and his Followers wasn’t ,( John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world).


Many Christians wants to not only do what the world’s doing. But deal with those who choose NOT to serve Jehovah God, and follow Jesus. We can’t do that, no matter who wants to believe it ,( 2Cor. 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness)? We can’t do they things of the world we once did. If we’re to get God’s approval, we have to change our old ways ,( Rom. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God). Many Christians ONLY wants to believe satan blinded un-believes, or those who don’t agree with them. But here’s wear one should put themselves in check, before checking others. When we celebrate dead presidents birthDATES, (I SAY DATES because we don't do it on the “day’ they were born. We do it on the DATE, they were born. But the killing part is…they’re not even ALIVE! So they have NO birthdays to celebrate. Another reason I said satan blinded us,…we don’t even celebrate our OWN DEAD love ones birthday. The ONLY thing I hear many say is…”today WOULD HAVE BEEN, HIS/HER BIRTHDAY” SAD!


Everything we taught decades ago, which many didn’t believe, are now teaching it. Most believe in a “hellfire” now many teach there never was. Most taught the trinity, by doing research many now see differently. ALL goes to Heaven?, many wasn’t shown the truth. That ONLY a select amont goes ,(144,000- Rev. 14:1-4, And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads). ANY who refuse to believe the truth, God will help them to believe that lie they believe, which would mean death ,( 2 Thess. 2:10-12). Many do want the truth, but they’re taught wrong ,( Rom. 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge). Jesus said if you seek it ,(the truth), you will find it.Sadly many really don’t want the TOTAL truth, because many aren’t willing to give up what they hold dearly. Be-it their friends, family, especially the things of the world.


Personally speaking, I don’t feel the need to do the things the world does. it usually leads to something negative anyway. I don’t care what others think of me, when it comes to trying to serve Jehovah. Though I AM imperfect, I pray so much for God to remove ANYTHING that’ll cause me to lose his acceptance of me. I KNOW I don’t have that Heavenly calling, I might not even make it. But one thing I can say, i constantly try to put Jehovah first. I seek the truth, because I want to try and follow it. IF what we teach is wrong, then jws over the whole earth, will be destroyed, And the many other religions will remain. peace

 

[Ran77]

Ran, do you believe anyone who does not belong to your church can be exalted to the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom?

I do not. If a person is not willing to do all that God asks them to do then they can not obtain the fullness of Heaven. That does not change the fact that we consider anyone who follows Christ to be a Christian.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I do not. If a person is not willing to do all that God asks them to do then they can not obtain the fullness of Heaven. That does not change the fact that we consider anyone who follows Christ to be a Christian.

Thanks. I think that we have the difference shown in your reply between that of orthodox Christian and Mormonism. In orthodox Christianity either one is a Christian and has the sure destination of eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ or he is not and has a destination in the Lake of Fire for eternity. In Mormonism one is rarely deemed so unworthy as to deserve the outer darkness, by few are also deemed worthy enought to achieve the hisghest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. The great mass of humanity, including the majority of Mormons end up somewhere in between. Thus, a Mormon can declare virtually everyone on earth to be a Christian in the sense that they will not end up in the outer darkness, but also in good conscience declare that only truly worthy Christians (which, of course, is limited to Mormons) actually will spend eternity in the presence of the Savior.

 

[Rescued One]

I do not. If a person is not willing to do all that God asks them to do then they can not obtain the fullness of Heaven. That does not change the fact that we consider anyone who follows Christ to be a Christian.

Christian is a word that is defined differently by various groups. If anyone who follows Christ is a Christian, will all followers of Christ receive eternal life in the Presence of God(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)? Or will only those who who have obeyed the laws and ordinances of the LDS church receive eternal life in the Presence of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Or are the ones who obey the LDS laws and ordinances the only ones who are truly following Christ? IOW, "we consider anyone(LDS) who follows Christ to be a Christian."


From time to time, ask yourself these questions: "Am I ready to meet my Maker?" "Am I worthy of all the blessings He has in store for His faithful children?" "Have I received my endowment and sealing ordinances of the temple?" "Have I remained faithful to my covenants?" "Have I qualified for the greatest of all God's blessings-the blessing of eternal life."
--Russell M. Nelson, "Neither Trust in the Arm of Flesh", Ensign, Mar 2010, 24–25

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
The Articles of Faith

 

[TasteForTruth]

Thanks. I think that we have the difference shown in your reply between that of orthodox Christian and Mormonism. In orthodox Christianity either one is a Christian and has the sure destination of eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ or he is not and has a destination in the Lake of Fire for eternity. In Mormonism one is rarely deemed so unworthy as to deserve the outer darkness, by few are also deemed worthy enought to achieve the hisghest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. The great mass of humanity, including the majority of Mormons end up somewhere in between. Thus, a Mormon can declare virtually everyone on earth to be a Christian in the sense that they will not end up in the outer darkness, but also in good conscience declare that only truly worthy Christians (which, of course, is limited to Mormons) actually will spend eternity in the presence of the Savior.

Actually, those who inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom will enjoy the presence of the Savior. (D&C 76:77) Just FYI.

And "Mormonism" as a dispensation of the Gospel is unique to this dispensation. Simon Peter, for example, wasn't Mormon, but I have no doubt that he will inherit the Celestial Kingdom. Same with Adam, Enoch, etc.

-----

And for what it's worth, my view on who is and who is not Christian... anyone who in mortality follows the Light of Christ to the extent which God favors him with it...is Christian, for that is the essence of Christianity! (As opposed to the title of "Christian," which is attached to men by other men, and not by God, who looketh upon the heart (1 Sam. 16:7))

 

[Ran77]

Thanks. I think that we have the difference shown in your reply between that of orthodox Christian and Mormonism. In orthodox Christianity either one is a Christian and has the sure destination of eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ or he is not and has a destination in the Lake of Fire for eternity. In Mormonism one is rarely deemed so unworthy as to deserve the outer darkness, by few are also deemed worthy enought to achieve the hisghest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. The great mass of humanity, including the majority of Mormons end up somewhere in between. Thus, a Mormon can declare virtually everyone on earth to be a Christian in the sense that they will not end up in the outer darkness, but also in good conscience declare that only truly worthy Christians (which, of course, is limited to Mormons) actually will spend eternity in the presence of the Savior.

While technically the bolded section of your statement is true, because an LDS member could declare that, but that doesn't mean they will or it is even likely. It definately is not the definition that the leadership of the church generally use. It certainly is not what I represented.

Maybe we can leave it to the LDS to state what the LDS believe and leave the far-reaching hypothetical out of it. Christians are those who choose to follow Christ. Period.

Now if you wish to discuss the varying degrees of faithfullness and the accompanying judgment, I'm fine with that.

 

[Ran77]

Are we under restriction to not communicate with one another? I had thought we were. But based on you having posted to me I will respond.

Christian is a word that is defined differently by various groups. If anyone who follows Christ is a Christian, will all followers of Christ receive eternal life in the Presence of God(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)? Or will only those who who have obeyed the laws and ordinances of the LDS church receive eternal life in the Presence of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Or are the ones who obey the LDS laws and ordinances the only ones who are truly following Christ? IOW, "we consider anyone(LDS) who follows Christ to be a Christian."

Here's the thing, a group can define any word they want in any way they want. That doesn't make it accurate. It may not even be worthy of evidence in making a point. The Webster online dictionary gives this meaning: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I am using the word the way it is meant to be used. Further, I am using the word in the way that the LDS use the word. They happen to be the same.

I suppose we could look at the Bible to see how the word is used there, but as I understand it, the word doesn't appear. It was a term that critics of the Church used in a derogatory way to identify the followers of Christ.

Still, I think this verse has application to what we are discussing.


Luke 9: 49-50

49. And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he that is not against us is for us.


Even when Jesus was actively involved in His ministry, there were those who were teaching the gospel that were not part of His group. The way I see it, Jesus considered them "Christians" as well as His own disciples.

I have no intention of diminishing the love for Christ that any person has in their hearts. If they say they are Christians, I certainly am not worthy of telling them otherwise. I'd say that only Jesus and the Father are worthy of making that call.

I love the whole maybe / could / what if thing, because it is the bread and butter of a writer. However, when it comes to a person's belief system it seems best to leave it to them to tell the story.

 

[A New Dawn]

Ran, do you believe anyone who does not belong to your church can be exalted to the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom?

No need to be so selective. Ask if they can get into any level of Celestial glory without being LDS.

 

[skylark1]

Thanks. I think that we have the difference shown in your reply between that of orthodox Christian and Mormonism. In orthodox Christianity either one is a Christian and has the sure destination of eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ or he is not and has a destination in the Lake of Fire for eternity. In Mormonism one is rarely deemed so unworthy as to deserve the outer darkness, by few are also deemed worthy enought to achieve the hisghest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. The great mass of humanity, including the majority of Mormons end up somewhere in between. Thus, a Mormon can declare virtually everyone on earth to be a Christian in the sense that they will not end up in the outer darkness, but also in good conscience declare that only truly worthy Christians (which, of course, is limited to Mormons) actually will spend eternity in the presence of the Savior.

I don't think that LDS tend to define who is a Christian based on their eternal destination (in the example above, everyone who does not end up in outer darkness. Nor do I think that they base their definition of who is a Christian on beliefs to the extent that orthodox/traditional Christians do. I thought that the following from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism might be helpful. The elispes are not to change the meaning, but for the sake of brevity concerning who LDS consider to be Christians.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not see itself as one Christian denomination among many, but rather as God's latter-day restoration of the fulness of Christian faith and practice. Thus, from its earliest days LDS Christians sought to distinguish themselves from Christians of other traditions. Other forms of Christianity, while bearing much truth and doing much good under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, are viewed as incomplete, lacking the authority of the priesthood of God, the temple ordinances, the comprehensive understanding of the Plan of Salvation, and the nonparadoxical understanding of the Godhead....

Latter-day Saints hold that Christians in the broadest sense are those who base their beliefs on the teachings of Jesus and who have a personal relationship with him. Within that definition they recognize Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, and Latter-day Saint Christians, with the understanding that Latter-day Saint Christianity is the restored fulness of Christ's gospel.

... But for the Mormon, right beliefs (orthodoxy) and right behaviors (orthopraxy) are those congruent with the revealed mind and will of the Lord. Some of the misunderstandings between traditional communities and the Latter-day Saints arise from this issue: whether Christians must first believe traditional, especially credal, dogmas in order to live "correct Christian lives."​

For the entire entry, please see: Christians and Christianity - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[Rescued One]

Are we under restriction to not communicate with one another?

No.

Here's the thing, a group can define any word they want in any way they want. That doesn't make it accurate. It may not even be worthy of evidence in making a point. The Webster online dictionary gives this meaning: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

That is a convenient answer.

Matthew 7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I am using the word the way it is meant to be used. Further, I am using the word in the way that the LDS use the word. They happen to be the same.

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith , The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60

"'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)

Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111

(Bold mine)

Contrary to what many think, just believing in God and being virtuous and pure are not sufficient to qualify a person for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
...

People who accept and live doctrines of men do not know the living God.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, January 1973, p. 44

(bold mine)

I suppose we could look at the Bible to see how the word is used there, but as I understand it, the word doesn't appear. It was a term that critics of the Church used in a derogatory way to identify the followers of Christ.

Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
Acts 26:28

Still, I think this verse has application to what we are discussing.


Luke 9: 49-50

49. And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he that is not against us is for us.

Matthew 7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Even when Jesus was actively involved in His ministry, there were those who were teaching the gospel that were not part of His group. The way I see it, Jesus considered them "Christians" as well as His own disciples.

I have no intention of diminishing the love for Christ that any person has in their hearts. If they say they are Christians, I certainly am not worthy of telling them otherwise. I'd say that only Jesus and the Father are worthy of making that call.

I love the whole maybe / could / what if thing, because it is the bread and butter of a writer. However, when it comes to a person's belief system it seems best to leave it to them to tell the story.

Of course, I'm not going to tell people a lot of what Jehovah's Winesses teach or Christadelphians or Greek Orthodox, but I have studied Mormonism for over forty years and was a member of your organization and had family members in it. LDS are frequently trying to find fault with me for talking about Mormonism, but God says, "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

I have said nothing about your personal beliefs. I don't presume to read minds. I do presume to know a lot about Mormonism. It was taught to me by Mormons. So when I share information with non-Mormons, I try to provide sources so that they can do their own research.

 

[TasteForTruth]

LDS are frequently trying to find fault with me for talking about Mormonism...

I cannot not speak to this, Phoebe Ann. I don't want anything here to become a personal issue, but if you make this issue public by speaking about the general group of LDS members here, you cannot but expect public response from that group.

Your statement is simply wrong. In all the time I've been here I have never once witnessed a member of the LDS church take issue with you "talking about Mormonism." What I have witnessed—and expressed myself, forcefully at times—is members of the LDS church 1) finding serious errors in your interpretation and presentation of Mormonism and 2) finding fault with your unending repetition of those very errors in spite of, and in the very face of, correction. Ran77 has spoken well.

We are all subject to correction. It is your super-human resistance to it in this area (errors in portraying Mormonism) that ultimately gets the better of us (LDS) in this environment, where all we want is for our religion to be represented for what it is. And honestly, I don't understand the imperviousness. There simply is nothing to gain from it. Talk Mormonism all you want. No one will take issue with that. It's the other that causes the trouble.

Peace. No ill feelings intended in the slightest. I just want what you want... the truth to be told.

P.S. If there have been LDS who have found fault with your mere talking about Mormonism, I do not contest your statement, in spite of my never having witness such a thing. And in that case, the remainder of my comments I leave as they are.

 

[Ran77]

That is a convenient answer.

I certainly find it more convienent to be straight forward and honest with my responses. Thanks for noticing.

Contrary to what many think, just believing in God and being virtuous and pure are not sufficient to qualify a person for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

I am not concerned with what the "many" may think or say. That is their right. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what your statement has to do with what I posted. It strikes me as being another issue and another point of view from what I presented.

Of course, I'm not going to tell people a lot of what Jehovah's Winesses teach or Christadelphians or Greek Orthodox, but I have studied Mormonism for over forty years and was a member of your organization and had family members in it. LDS are frequently trying to find fault with me for talking about Mormonism, but God says, "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

I suggest that you take this issue up with the people that are finding fault with you. If I happen to do that in the future, and I sure don't plan for it, then you should definately bring it to my attention.

I have said nothing about your personal beliefs. I don't presume to read minds. I do presume to know a lot about Mormonism. It was taught to me by Mormons. So when I share information with non-Mormons, I try to provide sources so that they can do their own research.

And I have not accused you of speaking to my personal beliefs. I have discussed the LDS view on this topic - maybe that is what you are addressing here.

As for providing sources, I would very much like to see you post what the General Authorities have offered as our view about Christians, specifically the definition of a Christian.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No need to be so selective. Ask if they can get into any level of Celestial glory without being LDS.

Good point. So, Ran, can any Christian who is not LDS reach any level of Celestial glory?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't think that LDS tend to define who is a Christian based on their eternal destination (in the example above, everyone who does not end up in outer darkness. Nor do I think that they base their definition of who is a Christian on beliefs to the extent that orthodox/traditional Christians do. I thought that the following from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism might be helpful. The elispes are not to change the meaning, but for the sake of brevity concerning who LDS consider to be Christians.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not see itself as one Christian denomination among many, but rather as God's latter-day restoration of the fulness of Christian faith and practice. Thus, from its earliest days LDS Christians sought to distinguish themselves from Christians of other traditions. Other forms of Christianity, while bearing much truth and doing much good under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, are viewed as incomplete, lacking the authority of the priesthood of God, the temple ordinances, the comprehensive understanding of the Plan of Salvation, and the nonparadoxical understanding of the Godhead....

Latter-day Saints hold that Christians in the broadest sense are those who base their beliefs on the teachings of Jesus and who have a personal relationship with him. Within that definition they recognize Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, and Latter-day Saint Christians, with the understanding that Latter-day Saint Christianity is the restored fulness of Christ's gospel.

... But for the Mormon, right beliefs (orthodoxy) and right behaviors (orthopraxy) are those congruent with the revealed mind and will of the Lord. Some of the misunderstandings between traditional communities and the Latter-day Saints arise from this issue: whether Christians must first believe traditional, especially credal, dogmas in order to live "correct Christian lives."
​

For the entire entry, please see: Christians and Christianity - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

Thank you. This strikes me as being extremely similar to the modern Roman Catholic view of other Christians. How times do change!

 

[Rescued One]

As for providing sources, I would very much like to see you post what the General Authorities have offered as our view about Christians, specifically the definition of a Christian.

Let's start with information provided at lds.org:

Stephen E. Robinson, Are Mormons Christians?
1 What is a Christian? The term is found three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; Acts 26:28; 1 Pet. 4:16), but it is not defined in any of those passages. According to Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, the term Christian may be defined in a number of ways, but the most common is “one who believes or professes … to believe in Jesus Christ and the truth as taught by him … one whose life is conformed to the doctrines of Christ.” The second most common meaning is “a member of a church or group professing Christian doctrine or belief.”
Stephen E. Robinson, Are Mormons Christians? New Era, May 1998

Let's look at LDS scripture which can't be construed by LDS as being merely speculation:


Doctrine and Covenants 84
33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.

34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;


This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth . . . (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 164-165)

IOW, all but the LDS are outside the true Church. If Christ is the cornerstone of His Church and only Mormons are in that Church, where does that leave the rest of us?

Brigham Young stated:

Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10:230)

Was he only speculating?

LDS scripture:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

For those who haven't accepted Mormonism, LDS scripture says that they can come under Satan's power by having only the Bible as scripture:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
29 ...because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
1 Nephi 13Â[bless and do not curse]