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For Calvinists: Struggling with Matthew 22:14

StillGods

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Man...I wish I didn't post my question. I think it's best for me to not focus on this.

it's good you posted it. you have genuine concerns that are valid about the calvinist interpretation of that verse.
the rest of Christendom interpret that verse differently.
 
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Tania11

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I had something that popped in my mind that's bothering me today. Isn't it God that forms all people? Wouldn't this mean He forms some for hell?
 
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St_Worm2

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I had something that popped in my mind that's bothering me today. Isn't it God that forms all people? Wouldn't this mean He forms some for hell?
Hello Tania, the Bible tells us that God created us upright/in His perfect image, but as the preacher tells us later, we sought out many devices .. e.g. Genesis 1:26-27; Ecclesiastes 7:29.

To be specific, God created our progenitors in His perfect image, but we, their progeny, are begotten in their tarnished image instead. The good news is, God began to remedy the problem for us before our first parents had left the Garden of God .. Genesis 3:21

--David
 
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Tania11

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Thanks, man. Someone sent me a Spurgeon sermon and it kind of freaked me out. It was talking about double-predestination.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hello again @Tania11, I should add that predestination in the Bible is always to life (God does not need to work iniquity into hearts that are already filled with it .. e.g. Romans 3:10-12, 23; Ephesians 2:1-3).

There is a sense of a passive double-predestination that is implicit in the Bible however (which is what Spurgeon was, no doubt, referring to), because only those who are drawn by/given to Jesus by His Father will come to Him for salvation. Further, ~all~ who so drawn 1. will be saved and 2. will never be lost.

John 6
37 ~All~ that the Father gives Me ~will~ come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of ~all~ that He has given Me I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me ~draws~ him; and I will raise him up on the last day."

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been ~granted~ him from the Father.”

--David

Psalm 51
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me
.
.
 
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Tania11

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Thanks for your reply. You've been clearing my mind of all the fog and confusion I'm making. I could have gotten Spurgeon wrong.. something he said rubbed me the wrong way. I could've took it out of context. IDK, but I don't have to agree with it just because he said it.
 

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ViaCrucis

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I had something that popped in my mind that's bothering me today. Isn't it God that forms all people? Wouldn't this mean He forms some for hell?

Well, what does Scripture say?

The Scriptures say that God created man in His image and likeness. They say that God so loved the world that God sent His only-begotten Son so that all who believe in Him will not perish. They say that God demonstrates His love in that even when we were sinners Christ died for us. They say that God is the Savior of all people, especially those that believe. Etc and so on.

God didn't create anyone to be damned.
God wills that everyone be saved.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Tania11

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TY. I know a person that uses Roman's 9, Judas and I think Saul for believing that God Predestines some for hell. How would you respond to the story of Judas?
 
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ViaCrucis

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TY. I know a person that uses Roman's 9, Judas and I think Saul for believing that God Predestines some for hell. How would you respond to the story of Judas?

Those who point to Romans 9 that God predestines some for hell, I always argue, need to keep reading St. Paul's epistle. If they did, they'd find themselves confronted with Romans 11:32.

If Judas was fated to betray the Lord, and was helpless to do so; that would render him non-culpable for the crime. We don't hold the tectonic plates culpable for earthquakes, nor do we hold gravity morally responsible for a ball falling and hitting someone on the head. If Judas was merely a product of fate, then he isn't responsible, he had no control over his actions, it's no different than a piece of software following its programming: 2+2=5, it always equals 5.

We do hold Judas culpable for his actions, because human beings are morally culpable agents. The bondage of the human will to sin has nothing to do with fate; it is not by Divine will that we are in bondage to sin, God did not predestine us to sin. Indeed, this is morally abominable, and we would therefore rightly hold God morally responsible for the destruction of 10 million lives in the Holocaust.

What it means is that I am held in bondage to sin, and thus cannot free myself to the life of righteousness with God that I so desperately need, and therefore I am in need of One from the outside to come and save me. And this, this is what God has predestined and willed.

When I look upon my baptism I can know that it wasn't me that saved me, instead I have God's word and assurance that I belong to Christ, chosen and predestined in Christ before the world began, by the wonderful and beautiful mercy and love of God. And that this is His will and desire for all: that all be saved, for indeed, Christ came to save all.

The only thing that stands between us and our salvation is us. And graciously, lovingly, kindly, and wonderfully, God rescues us from ourselves.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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