"For All You've Done" #1

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

99% of the music done by hillsong IS great - but there are a number of songs that are actually not biblically based - and have no scriptural basis - one actually goes AGAINST what the Bible says about the subject, so I know a number of churches that actually don't sing one or two songs that they brought out.

I remember a few people at a church requesting a song to be played at some point, and our pastor had to stand up and state as to why that song was not in the church registry...

There's a song that says 'here in your courts where I'm close to your side, I know where I belong'... well, if you read the Bible it states that we now have the ability to be in the Holy of Holies with God, and that the courts were the furtherest from where the Glory of God was in the temple - and we belong in the Holy of Holies with God - therefore I don't sing that song, and I know of a number of churches in brisbane who refuse to also...

Just a thought - check out the lyrics and make sure they enforce sound scriptural truths before you sing them...

I'm not saying do it with all songs - heck I sing along to Powderfinger, and they don't espouse Christian views, but I think that when it comes to songs we sing to worship God, they should stand strong with scripture...

Just my two cents

Sasch

 

[Sharky]

That in your courts song, i interpret that Your courts is His Holy of Holies.

Not the outer courts.

So i sing that but that's my personal preference.

 

[Bevlina]

To be honest, I am amazed at Sasch's post as I only have one CD of Hillsong and that particular song isn't in it, nor have I heard it. It never crossed my mind to check the words in any worship song before, at any time. It's made me re evaluate how I look at modern hymns. Do I just like the tune and do I really take note of the words?
Very good post Sasch as I have many tapes which are not Hillsong, so must check the words of those. There was one in particular I automatically felt a teensy bit uncomfortable with...forget which one but it's on a 'Holy Fire' tape.
Thanks for that Sasch!

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Your welcome - I do have personal issues with Hillsong, but it's not just hillsong - it's a lot of pentecostal churches... but that's just me having been in pentecostal worldview for 20 odd years, and now testing it against scripture for myself

Yeah - I learnt that from my parents - always test what I'm being told by church/christian friends/songs/etc against the scripture - our pastor always told me - don't believe it just because I said it - take notes and then test them against the Bible, and if you have an issue about it not lining up - let me know!

Plus, I have an interest in The Old Testament Temple, and the symbolism behind each item and location in that temple, so that's why I caution people

Sasch

 

[Bevlina]

I'll be following your advice Sasch. I've never been taught by anyone in my life and have just been a gullible follower of man and his words, preferring the Bible as my guide, but Oh...so gullible. Today, I am finding it's folk like yourself and Jim who have been such a help to me.
We can tend to become lost in the world of Pentacostalism. It's so easy. But, we are told to test the spirits whether they be of God or not.
Today there is a world of would be Pentacostal Bands and song writers, singers and such. And, it's so easy to really like their songs because of their beat.
I feel a little uncomfortable with some things and often wonder. Being one of the naive folk of the 50's, I feel a guidance in many things, an unseen guidance. You have now made me more aware. More proof that the Lord guides us into all truths.
I never seem to understand many things that prompt me 'stop...stay away'
Then suddenly, someone like you comes along and the explanation is there.
" A little child shall lead them" makes sense to me in soooo many ways you would never understand.
Some amazing things have happened to me in this manner. I have an aversion to people saying many things in Pentecostal churches. Often, I tend to stand back and watch in wonder and never feel prompted to join in. It's as though I'm a loner really.
Standing by the side of Christ...and afraid of man and his teachings of the Bible.
Afraid and wondering what it's all about.
I cannot explain it. But to me God..Jesus...and the Holy Spirit is so very precious. The most precious gift I have is knowledge of them. The most precious part of my life is my God.
In no way do I wish to offend Him....nor grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I totally understand we're you're coming from Bev!!!

I have one of those personalities where I am generally happy to believe what anybody tells me - mum said it (or God, depending on whose authority I was taking at the time) and I never bothered to question it. I went to a Christian school my whole life, and never really thought to question anything. I grew up pentecostal, and took everything 'on face value' without question.

It was only when I got out of that lifestyle, and was working in a secular environment, and going to university and developing strong friendships with non-christians, and people from other denominations, that I realised I didn't have my own belief system, as such, and was just repeating what I'd heard my whole life without a strong backup reasoning for it... needless to say, I wasn't respected all that much!!!

So, I got into theology and belief structures and learning about differences between religions, denominations and theologies - and it was then and only then that I felt I could back up what I was saying with solid evidence. Lee Strobel was a very good writer for me at this point.

Now, I'm not saying being spoon fed and 'child like' is necessarily completely BAD!! Sometimes that is a good thing - that blind faith. But occasionally you will be witnessing to someone who is highly sceptical, yet wants to know your beliefs, so you need some strong back up. THAT is why I learnt to study everything I hear against the word and what it says...

Once I had some strong belief systems in place - both evidenced by biblical standards and my own experiences of doing as the bible says, and doing something 'non-christlike' I found that people were far more respectful of me and my faith and were willing to ask me questions on it...

Go ahead and question! Line up what your pastor says (and the lyrics) with what you read FOR YOURSELF in the Bible...



Sasch

 

[marduke]

hey Sasch just out of interest what were the two songs you are talking about?

thanks
Rob

 

[Bevlina]

Sasch...I don't have a pastor honey. I was a COE Sunday School child, sent to a Catholic Convent Hugh and baptised into the Catholic church age 11. At age 7 I had a HUGE experience with God. A huge one.
At age 8 I experienced another. And, I tell you, it was huge.
In the Catholic church...I did have another aged 12.
Then, having just blindly following the catholic church because it was the 'done thing' and learning nothing. I was pulled away from it when my parents put me out of their home aged 15. Bewildered and absolurely lost, I met a woman hell bent on getting me into the Church of Christ to make up numbers. I was amazed at the backbiting there, and learned nothing. But managed to be given a prize at that time. A Bible which I still have.
Then, aged 21 I met mormon elders and became a Mormon.
Following them for awhile, blindly not questioning, I left them because one and one didn't make two.
So I just went on through life reading the Bible and trusting in God.
Then I met Pentecostal women who were only too happy to teach me all about Pentecostalism. I followed blindly. And very happily!!
Then, they turned their backs on me as one of the women kept throwing the catholic church at me. She still states that I am in "two camps". I don't know what she means but she (a pentecostal) has had a great time slandering me!
Consequently.....I am churchless. Too afraid to go where those people are.
The letters that woman wrote me were shocking. This has turned me off churches.
The accusations that very religious woman has thrown at me put me in Hospital.
I don't trust anymore.
Churches scare the hell out of me.
I just read my Bible and now and then trot down to the Catholic Church meetings.
A pastor? The only pastor I saw when my husband died was the Catholic Nun who conducted my husband's funeral.
The Pentecostal one's who knew of his death...and knew I was suffering. Well, they didn't bother to come near me, nor did I even receive a card from any Pentecostal.
I just read my Bible. In other words Sasch.....no 'pastor' has ever shown compassion to this one! So...I don't trust them. "Ye shall know them by THEIR FRUITS"
And, unfortunately, I watch for those fruits all the time Sasch. Those words stick in my mind continually.
Maybe I expect too much...I just don't know. But I have seen people yelling out "Praise The Lord!!" ... and forget their fellow man.
I see these people fall down in ther spirit...and forget their fellow man.
I see these people throwing up their hands and 'laughing' in the spirit...and forget their fellow man.
I see them in worship mode....and then forget their fellow man.
I don't know what it's all about...but sometimes I feel inside, it's better to keep away.
Again...one and one does not make two.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Bev,

What you experience, unfortunately, does happen a fair bit - my mum experienced it for being a single mum, I experienced because I didn't shut out a pregnant girl who started coming along - like all the other youth did I did find a very 'clique-y' element to certain churches of which you speak - so I never felt I fit in... also the 'over-hype' never rung true for me - and I was isolated as a result.

I do have a lot of questions about the more well known pentecostal churches in Brisbane - because, other than those friends who went to my school and go there, I was never really welcomed, and I didn't see much love to the fellow man - maybe to the mission trip or charity they were supporting that year, but not to people who walked through the door as strangers or 'different' from us (ie goths, ex-addicts, pregnant teens)...

I guess that's why I'm a salvo - a lot of people think we have a belief that because of our 'works' we get to heaven - but I have never come across that at the churches I've attended of this denomination...

What attracted me to the salvo church (other than a friend, who now attends a corps somewhere else) was the fact that the minute I walked in the door, I was accepted. I was invited to a lifegroup the very first time I went, and have never been without friends since. I may wish we had communion more (we only have it for Christmas and Easter - I'll explain why if you wish to PM me or just look up why the salvos were created), but I'm willing to accept that decision and worship where I am able to in WHATEVER way I please

Our pastor is fantastic (if we were being traditional salvo here, I'd say 'officer' or 'major') - as is his wife...

God bless you Bev and I really hope you find a spiritual home where love is not only preached but shown to the congregation at all times

Sasch

 

[Sharky]

Wow Bev, that actually happened?

I feel humbled now, you went through all that and you still dont have grudges.

Still learning


Never ever take the word from just teachings from pastors, unless someone is prophesying to you or speaking from the Holy Spirit of course. Always check it up and match it on the bible.

I checked up alot of verses off the bible when my pastor taught stuff. Sometimes he'd get it wrong of course which is why he always says to check it up off the bible in case he made mistakes.

I started off in a kinda sunday school back in my home town (malaysia) run by my auntie. She's a full on christian, haven't seen her for aaaages. Anyway!

That sunday school was the first place where i said that 'sinner's prayer'. At the time, i didn't really think anything of it, it was just something i said. Then they gave me a bible and that was that lol. I went for maybe 2 or 3 more sundays but that's it.

Next church i went in of course was a mormon church which i didn't really go in, but rather just headed up to ask them about the book of Revelations. They didn't have a clue . But gave me a mormon book trying to tell me about how God was a human or something etc etc.

The my cousin told me to stay away from there because it was considered a cult etc. (BTW i'm not such a hard head that i hate mormons).

Then of course next i went is the one i'm in now at hillsong. Actually i serve more in Powerhouse which is the Youth ministry. Loud, active, i fit into the backstage side of things where i learnt alot of things with videos, film, animation, editing etc.

There are alot of people who are really into it but some are new comers wondering what all the racket was about .

however, i started to study the bible by myself with my friends of course because it allows me to build up my own style and keeps me vigilant of anything that's contradictory. That's what i love about learning the bible, you get so much wisdom from there and a solid weapon to fight temptation.

I dont think i've been to a church which stopped me from coming in before, every church i've been too welcomed me. Some are quieter than others, some are into the positive side, the 'need to hear this' side, the motivational side, the leadership area etc, all churches ive been to have their own unique style.

I'd be saddened if a church should kick someone out based on race or culture. Obviously if someone is having fun raping people that church should kick him or her out immediately. If they wish to repent then they should be let back in and forgiven and prayed for.

I wish our ministry should concentrate totally on the teachings and helping out community side of things more tho, always suggesting to them tho hehe.

 

[Bevlina]

Wow Sharky! That must be the longest letter you have posted here! Thankyou so much for that!

Sasch, I loved your post too And as soon as I read it the thought crossed my mind.I wonder if Sasch's pastor or his wife could teach me something on msn if I need to ask a question? Would that be possible Sasch? For some reason, I feel there is someone who posts here can help me that way.

I am so impressed with your Aunt Sharky. What a beautiful person she must be! Actually, I didn't say a 'sinner's prayer' until a few years ago (I think). Today I wonder why I was told to say it because I have always believed and never swayed from my God through His Son. Believing to me is as natural as breathing.

In the catholic church in my day, it was forbidden for us to read a Bible. That was only for the priests. So, the little white Bible was a very precious gift to this curious one.
To me, reading about my Lord and my God was far more important that being told to do this and that. It was a case of wanting to know what HE had to say.

The first thing I read was "And call no man Father except your Father in Heaven", that made me blink a bit after being at cofession at High and saying "Bless me father for I have sinned" to the priest for a few years, and the priest forgave me.

It actually shocks me that church going folk can actually turn their backs on any living human being. Shocks and appalls.

The Bible states that we should love one another. It is with hope and prayers that this one has found the right path for it seems impossible to find it in a church. Some seem to say if you don't belong to their church you go to hell. This is so wrong from what I read in the Bible. Jesus said there would only be a few who find the right way.

He also said "Learn of me". That's why I love the Bible, it is so clear cut. Actually, Jesus had little to say...but wat He said was powerful. It's so sad that many can't see the words for the pages. Studying the words of Jesus alone is an eyeopener.

The Book of Proverbs is a great help to me. It provokes intense thought and meditation. But, really I am not self taught. The Holy Spirit guides me completely, and has done from the first time I received the Bible. I welcome that fact.

Is it possible for us all, one Saturday, to have a little one hour meeting on msn on the Bible as a little Church meeting for me? It would mean so much.

 

[warriorprincessdaughter]

Thats so true about always checking out everything in the bible, the pastor I had in my hometown always taught me that and I learn so much. The one thing I miss at my old church was that my family was great friends with the pastor so I would just call him up anytime if I had a question.

Thats shocking Bev, one thing I really learnt this week was from Paul Scanlon and his work in Bradford, England.
They went from being a white middle class church to a church that invites in everybody. Last week there was this beeping in the church that wouldnt stop, and this guy got up and walked out without turning it off or anything. Paul found out later that he was on parole and had gone over curfew!

 

[Sharky]

Wow Sharky! That must be the longest letter you have posted here! Thankyou so much for that!

Sasch, I loved your post too And as soon as I read it the thought crossed my mind.I wonder if Sasch's pastor or his wife could teach me something on msn if I need to ask a question? Would that be possible Sasch? For some reason, I feel there is someone who posts here can help me that way.

I am so impressed with your Aunt Sharky. What a beautiful person she must be! Actually, I didn't say a 'sinner's prayer' until a few years ago (I think). Today I wonder why I was told to say it because I have always believed and never swayed from my God through His Son. Believing to me is as natural as breathing.

In the catholic church in my day, it was forbidden for us to read a Bible. That was only for the priests. So, the little white Bible was a very precious gift to this curious one.
To me, reading about my Lord and my God was far more important that being told to do this and that. It was a case of wanting to know what HE had to say.

The first thing I read was "And call no man Father except your Father in Heaven", that made me blink a bit after being at cofession at High and saying "Bless me father for I have sinned" to the priest for a few years, and the priest forgave me.

It actually shocks me that church going folk can actually turn their backs on any living human being. Shocks and appalls.

The Bible states that we should love one another. It is with hope and prayers that this one has found the right path for it seems impossible to find it in a church. Some seem to say if you don't belong to their church you go to hell. This is so wrong from what I read in the Bible. Jesus said there would only be a few who find the right way.

He also said "Learn of me". That's why I love the Bible, it is so clear cut. Actually, Jesus had little to say...but wat He said was powerful. It's so sad that many can't see the words for the pages. Studying the words of Jesus alone is an eyeopener.

The Book of Proverbs is a great help to me. It provokes intense thought and meditation. But, really I am not self taught. The Holy Spirit guides me completely, and has done from the first time I received the Bible. I welcome that fact.

Is it possible for us all, one Saturday, to have a little one hour meeting on msn on the Bible as a little Church meeting for me? It would mean so much.

Aww! i wanted to meet in person and give you a hug but you live in vic

Icyst lives here in sydney so both of us can meet, not sure who else lives in sydney tho.

But hey, msn meeting would be great! Ill pm you my msn.

 

[Bevlina]

Great Sharky!

 

[Bevlina]

Thats so true about always checking out everything in the bible, the pastor I had in my hometown always taught me that and I learn so much. The one thing I miss at my old church was that my family was great friends with the pastor so I would just call him up anytime if I had a question.

Thats shocking Bev, one thing I really learnt this week was from Paul Scanlon and his work in Bradford, England.
They went from being a white middle class church to a church that invites in everybody. Last week there was this beeping in the church that wouldnt stop, and this guy got up and walked out without turning it off or anything. Paul found out later that he was on parole and had gone over curfew!

Uh...you kid me WP! And...he went to a church while he was on parole and that caused him to be over curfew? See what the Lord can do?

It appears to me that you are all so contented in your churches. The fellowship you all have must be precious. I elieve that is important. Caring and sharing for one another in the Name of Jesus. Isn't this what the original church 2000 years ago was all about? I note Paul with intent. He went on his way under all extremities bring folk together under the Banner of Christians. Followers of Christ. And, he didn't seem to care who, or what they were either. Just as long as they believed and acted in love towards one another. There was no Paul's Church. There was just the outrageous ex murderer called Paul who preached defiantly. And loved everybody.
Paul has made quite an impression on this one!

 

[KristianJ]

Aww! i wanted to meet in person and give you a hug but you live in vic

Icyst lives here in sydney so both of us can meet, not sure who else lives in sydney tho.

But hey, msn meeting would be great! Ill pm you my msn.

We'd all love to give Bev a big old

Paul is certainly an inspiring figure to look at...I am so amazed how he went from instigating the persecution of Christians to being persecuted, and actually rejoicing in the troubles he had. I have never seen a better role model to show how all of us as part of God's Kingdom should be living...a challenge to us all I'd think.

 

[Bevlina]

A role model? You said it Kris. It always makes me so proud to think God chose Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles. He is your Apostle...and mine. And, that thrills me. He was a man with a very big heart for God. For people. For Christ. It took me awhile to get to really get to know Paul's attitude to life. And then...it all clicked into place. He was just a human. He got angry and stood up for what he believed in. Role model? You betcha!

 

[JarrodlovesGod]

What is the United CD that has One way and all that? I REALLY want it.

 

[marduke]

'more than life' track one awesome cd

 

[KristianJ]

What is the United CD that has One way and all that? I REALLY want it.

It's on the new Hillsong one as well..."For All You've Done"