For all: How can we promote peace?

[GreenEyedLady]

How can we promote peace with others that we disagree with?

How can we discuss/debate about other beliefs without it turning in to a who is right and who is wrong thread?

Is being right about beliefs more important than having peace with those that we disagree with?

I am not trying to promote unity as I don't believe that that is possible in the Biblical sense because of our differences, but having peace and respect regardless of our differences.

I think the Gospel message is offensive to everyone at some point in thier life. The Gospel was not ment to make "peace" but to sanctify us and seperate us into the body of Christ.
It should not be about who is right or WHO is wrong. All of us here who are baptist will agree that God's Word is ALWAYS right no matter what anyone says or what anyones church says. I think that in this forum, the bible should be the final autority and if others who are not Baptist disagree with it, then they should repectfully disagree as we so do in thier forums.
Gods word is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, having beliefe in that IS more important that peace. I know it sounds bad, but thats what GOD said, not me. I don't see anyone in this forum bashing any ones elses moral chartecter. All I see is people debating about doctrines. Although these debates might get heated, I have never seen anyone really cross the lines of being UNChristlike here in the Baptist forum.
I have seen God's Word used some get offended by it, but that is suppose to happen. I think some of the other forum parties want to blame the poster for the offence, when in reality it is Gods word that is offending them.

GEL

 

[eldermike]

I think we must remember that we are not a "local church" here, this is a forum. We have only recently had denominational forums added. You would not find our rules in a church setting, they would be of no use in a local church. We use creeds to define who gets through the door here, once inside it's our rules that keep the peace. But, the important issue to me is; we are not a church.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Exactly, that's why we should avoid paraphrasing an argument. I try to go to the direct source.

Above all things are we loving God? I think the Bible is clear on loving God and loving our brother. You can't love God without loving your brother.

Are Mormons our "bothers"? If not, why not?

I think I see now. 9-iron paraphrased the scriptures, using "brother" instead of "neighbor," and you were picking on him for paraphrasing, rather than quoting the scriptures and saying "loving God and loving our neighbor."

...No. That can't be. You brought up the Mormons before that...

Before this turns into a nasty argument, I think I need to ask you:

What's your point?

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I can tell what Bleeches point is. What he is saying is someone brought up being brothers and sisters in Christ. He is saying.......well, who is are brother and sister in Christ here at CF?
Are ALL the people who registered here born again believers? Is that how we would catagorize them? WHat makes them our brother and sisters because we all KNOW its not doctrine! LOL

 

[Gold Dragon]

I can tell what Bleeches point is. What he is saying is someone brought up being brothers and sisters in Christ. He is saying.......well, who is are brother and sister in Christ here at CF?
Are ALL the people who registered here born again believers? Is that how we would catagorize them? WHat makes them our brother and sisters because we all KNOW its not doctrine! LOL

Obviously everyone can have different defining lines for who that is. I think the board uses Nicene Christians as the defining line which includes most Catholics and Protestants while excluding Mormons.

FAQ: Rule No. 6 - "Christians Only" Forums

 

[SumTinWong]

Obviously everyone can have different defining lines for who that is. I think the board uses Nicene Christians as the defining line which includes most Catholics and Protestants while excluding Mormons.

Well said.

 

[ZiSunka]

We can promote peace by pursuing peace ourselves. When we are peaceable, we promote peace.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I can tell what Bleeches point is. What he is saying is someone brought up being brothers and sisters in Christ. He is saying.......well, who is are brother and sister in Christ here at CF?
Are ALL the people who registered here born again believers? Is that how we would catagorize them? WHat makes them our brother and sisters because we all KNOW its not doctrine! LOL

GEL, that sounds nice, but to me that didn't look like Bleechers point at all. Someone said (paraphrasing), "Love your brothers and sisters in Christ," and he responded with, "Who are my brothers and sisters in Christ? Mormons?"

ISTM, Jesus gave a response to a very similar question, asked with the same purpose: to determine who was not in the group Christ's followers are commanded to love.

I posted Jesus' answer to that question, plus one or two of his other sayings about who we are to love.

The question of who is outside the set of people loved by Christ's followers was declared out of bounds by Christ himself. It doesn't matter what word is used in a particular context to describe who we are to love. If we are asking who is "in" and who is "out" of the group we love, we are askiing a question Christ does not want us to ask.

 

[bleechers]

Can't be the Nicene Creed

"Two fundamental differences between the Latin Catholic and Greek Orthodox traditions developed during the early Middle Ages. The first was the Petrine Doctrine, absolute in the West, resisted in the East. And the second was a Western addition to the Nicene Creed which provoked the filioque controversy."

"The Western legates accused Constantinople of having altered the Nicene Creed. In the end, Cardinal Humbert deposited a Bull of Excommunication against Michael Cerularius on the altar of the Hagia Sophia, and the Great Schism was official."

What about this from the CF page "Be a Christian":

You Must Receive Him

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." --John 1:12 (NIV)

When you receive Christ into your heart you become a child of God, and have the privilege of talking to Him in prayer at any time about anything. The Christian life is a personal relationship to God through Jesus Christ. And best of all, it is a relationship that will last for all eternity.

Receiving Him Now

If you want to receive Jesus now, and accept His gift of salvation, it's a matter of believing in Jesus Christ, repenting of your sins, and turning the rest of your life over to Him. This is not a ritual based on specific words, but rather, a prayerful guideline for your sincere step of faith.

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.”

 

[Gold Dragon]

Can't be the Nicene Creed

"Two fundamental differences between the Latin Catholic and Greek Orthodox traditions developed during the early Middle Ages. The first was the Petrine Doctrine, absolute in the West, resisted in the East. And the second was a Western addition to the Nicene Creed which provoked the filioque controversy."

"The Western legates accused Constantinople of having altered the Nicene Creed. In the end, Cardinal Humbert deposited a Bull of Excommunication against Michael Cerularius on the altar of the Hagia Sophia, and the Great Schism was official."

If you read the Catholics and Orthodox (Healing?) thread in General Theology, the filioque issue does not seem to be a significant one between modern Catholics and Orthodox Christians. What is the Petrine doctrine? The primacy of the Pope? I don't see anything about that in the Nicene Creed.

 

[bleechers]

The question of who is outside the set of people loved by Christ's followers was declared out of bounds by Christ himself. It doesn't matter what word is used in a particular context to describe who we are to love. If we are asking who is "in" and who is "out" of the group we love, we are askiing a question Christ does not want us to ask.

The question was not "who do we love?" it was "who do we love as brothers and sisters in Christ?" which is not only a good new testament thought, it is a biblical command.

I love Mormons, but not as "bothers and sisters in Christ"? This is based on the official doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If a Mormon denies the doctrines of his own church, he can call himself a Mormon all he wants, but that doesn't make him one. A Mormon is what the LDS say is a Mormon.

I can say the words "I believe that Jesus Christ is eternal God, equal with the Father... and I'm a Mormon" but that doesn't make me a Mormon. Conversely, if someone says "I don't believe that anyone can know his eternal fate because that fate is based on a final judgment of actions I've taken in this life... and I believe that punishment for sin was not satisfied in Christ and that I or someone else must suffer for my sins after death... but I'm a Christian."... do we just ignore what's been said?

Of course we must make distinctions. Making such distinctions is a totally separate matter from "love". If your friend thought he could fly, would you deem it hate to tell him that there exists a little law called gravity? Or should we love him and have respect for his belief system because, after all, he might survive the 20 story fall and who are we to contradict his sincerely held beliefs?

We speak the truth in love, but we speak it nonetheless.

 

[bleechers]

If you read the Catholics and Orthodox (Healing?) thread in General Theology, the filioque issue does not seem to be a significant one between modern Catholics and Orthodox Christians. What is the Petrine doctrine? The primacy of the Pope? I don't see anything about that in the Nicene Creed.

Regardless, it was core issue of the Great Schism that has not been settled. People were excommunicated over the creed... if they want to pretend otherwise, that is their business.

As for me, creeds are useless. I stated the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed hundreds of times long before I became a Christian. The Nicene comment was really a historical footnote as to the uselessness of creeds. Doctrinal statements are far more useful as are catechisms for they put meat on the bones.

One can recite the Nicene Creed and then deny the gospel in the same breath... I know I did it for 25 years.

 

[Crazy Liz]

The question was not "who do we love?" it was "who do we love as brothers and sisters in Christ?" which is not only a good new testament thought, it is a biblical command.

I love Mormons, but not as "bothers and sisters in Christ"?

Can you tell me the difference between the way we love brothers and sisters in Christ and the way we love others?

Does your answer have anything at all to do with the OP?

 

[bleechers]

Can you tell me the difference between the way we love brothers and sisters in Christ and the way we love others?

Does your answer have anything at all to do with the OP?

Certainly, our love for the brethren is greater than our love for those outside. Jesus, Paul and Peter lived and taught this.

We certainly don't let those who are not brethren teach.

Did Jesus and Paul just ignore false doctrine and false teachers in the name of love?

We certainly approach the two groups differently (see Jesus and Paul).

We exclude Mormons here at CF don't we?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Regardless, it was core issue of the Great Schism that has not been settled. People were excommunicated over the creed... if they want to pretend otherwise, that is their business.

They are not pretending it didn't happen but looking for reconciliation despite history. History does not have to dictate the future. The papal issue will still be the deal breaker though.

As for me, creeds are useless. I stated the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed hundreds of times long before I became a Christian. The Nicene comment was really a historical footnote as to the uselessness of creeds. Doctrinal statements are far more useful as are catechisms for they put meat on the bones.

Creeds have their uses, and I feel that CF has used the Nicene creed appropriately here.

One can recite the Nicene Creed and then deny the gospel in the same breath... I know I did it for 25 years.

Nobody said that reciting the Creed saves. Just that it is useful as a dividing line. Although dividing lines themselves may be part of the problem. Unite!

 

[bleechers]

Unite!

So I'll ask you... does that include Mormons and if not, why not?

Can't we use the "Be a Christian" page found here at CF as a "dividing line"?

 

[SumTinWong]

Bleechers: I posted this before but just in case you missed it...
Are they our brothers and sisters in Christ? Well the code of the Mormon Church claims to be the only true church. In God's supposed revelation to Joe Smith, Jesus told him to join no other church for "they were all wrong...their creeds were an abomination". Mormons teach that after the NT all churches became heretical and no true saints existed until the latter day saints was organized. We are considered gentiles to the Mormons. Mormons except four books as scripture and the word of God. The KJV is one of them as long as it is correctly translated. Joe Smith corrected over 600 things himself to make sure it "was correct". The other standards are the Book of Mormon(BoM), Doctrine and Covenants(DoC), and the Pearl of Great Price(PoGP). According to the BoM the Bible is missing some "plain and precious parts", which the other three complete.

As they tell it the Israelites travelled to America in 600 B.C. and their tale was was preserved by Reformed Egyptians on golden plates. Old Joe received a gift from God as was able to translate the platters and then returned them to the angel Moroni who took them back to heaven.

Now as far as their theology: God is an exalted man. Elohim the God of this universe, was previously a man in the prior existance. As a result of having kept the laws of Mormonism, he was exalted to godhood and inherited his own universe(wow did he luck out!). God is confined to a body of flesh and bones and yet is thought to be all present and all powerful, but he can't be everywhere at once(so he picked Utah?). There are an infinate number of Gods with their own worlds, these two were previously men. Byt eh way Jesus Christ and Lucifer are Go's heavenly children.

So no I do not think we are in communion with them. What do you think?

 

[OracleX]

Bleechers ... it is really simple. Christian Forums has rules and has made stands about who is allowed to post in Christian only forums and who are not to. Christian Forums has rules to keep order. Christian Forums is not a publicly operated business but a privately owned ministry staffed by volunteers.

If you do not like the way Christian Forums is setup, either take your concerns up line with senior staff or please feel free not to post here any more.

This thread was to discuss how to bring about peace not unity. This was a thread to promote respecting one another not picking apart each other. If you can not post in the about these issues seriously then please don't ruin the thread for others.

 

[Crazy Liz]

So I'll ask you... does that include Mormons and if not, why not?

Can't we use the "Be a Christian" page found here at CF as a "dividing line"?

No, Bleechers. We don't get to vote on the CF rules. Erwin makes them. It is his forum and he has chosen to make the Nicene Creed the dividing line.

If you want to discuss who is "in" and who is "out" here at CF, take that up with Erwin. There is a forum already set up where you can do that. It has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

 

[eldermike]

A person that posts here should be connected to a local church, this will not replace your church. One of my biggest fears in working in this ministry is that CF becomes a church to some. We don't debate in my home church. We don't use creeds as a test of how comes in the door. However, after working here for some time now I can see the wisdom of using them here. God has used Erwin in a mighty way to create something that's needed. But, it will not replace your home church.