Foot Washing

[timf]

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can become a significant problem. One might expect this ubiquitous problem to be mentioned in the bible simply as a necessary facet of daily life.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can become a significant problem. One might expect this ubiquitous problem to be mentioned in the bible simply as a necessary facet of daily life.

My church practices foot washing when we have communion. I am not sure why some churches don't practice it when it was part of what Jesus did at the last supper. The feet represents our path and the washing of feet is like a miniature baptism, that our path should be in the footsteps of Christ 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 1 John 2:6

 

[Rose_bud]

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can become a significant problem. One might expect this ubiquitous problem to be mentioned in the bible simply as a necessary facet of daily life.

We don't practice foot washing in our church. I cannot speak for other denominations, but I understand that if the scriptural symbolic references to Christs teachings on humility and servanthood is not explained to convey the spiritual significance (John 13), I supposed it just becomes a kind gesture or pedicure.

 

[RandyPNW]

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can become a significant problem. One might expect this ubiquitous problem to be mentioned in the bible simply as a necessary facet of daily life.

Yes, I think the Bible expects people to use common sense. The object never was about fixation with rigid guidelines, with duplicating exactly a particular exercise unless it was a matter of obeying the Mosaic Law. Then things had to be exact, or at least exact when circumstances permitted.

There were times when Sabbath could appear to be violated when it really wasn't rebellion against God to work as a matter of life and limb. There was a time when David, his troops in desperate need of food, partook of holyl bread. So it isn't about ritual, but more about obedience to God's word to the heart. When circumstances permitted, the ritual of the Law could be ignored.

Foot washing, however, wasn't even a matter of law. It just showed how low we mst be willing to go to help others, to put their needs ahead of our own, even at the expense of our so-called dignity. Foot washing was a cultural thing locked up in a particular time period. It need not be observed in our day of shoes and socks, in my opinion.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So we do not need to be in obedience to God’s law, but it’s only about the heart? Sounds like an oxymoron. If that were the case there would be no point in God writing His law in our heart not for us not to do them, but because we love Him so much we want to through the power of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18. I would like to see how this philosophy works out with the other 9 commandments- we don’t have to actually obey them, just keep them in our heart, but we can now worship other gods, murder, covet etc. Pretty sure scripture says those who do these things will not inherit the Kingdom of God without a heart change- meaning a new path to our feet, not the same as before . Jesus said those who keep their rules over obeying God’s commandments ones heart is far from Him, so what God placed in our hearts- His law Heb 8:10, He gives us the power to keep, not meant just to hear. Mat 15:3-14 James 1:22-26

It was never a sin to eat on the Sabbath, but it is to do secular work Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 . The priest who gave David showbread on the Sabbath because he was fearing for his life and hungry, did not violate God’s law as Jesus stated Mat 12:7. Sad people try to make this as an argument against keeping one of God’s commandments as if feeding someone who is starving would ever be a sin .


Back to the topic - if one is going to do communion, it should include feet washing, Jesus included it, who gets to decide what is involved in communion, us or God- we are called to be followers of Christ

Sadly the church who did away with foot washing also did away with one of God’s divinely written commandments sadly that most churches follow today instead of following Who we are told to abide in John 15:4-5,10 and follow 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22



Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?

A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another's feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. ...

Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?

A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; ...
—Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can become a significant problem. One might expect this ubiquitous problem to be mentioned in the bible simply as a necessary facet of daily life.

Jesus washed the apostles' feet and some people take that as a signal that they too ought to wash the feet of their fellow believers when celebrating the Lord's supper.

 

[RandyPNW]

So we do not need to be in obedience to God’s law, but it’s only about the heart? Sounds like an oxymoron.

Rom 2.29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Rom 10.10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Exercising faith from the heart is not "oxymoronic." In the case of circumcision, faith from the heart superseded the Law of circumcision among the Gentiles. Even among the Jews, foot-washing was not a law, nor did Jesus make it a law.

Back to the topic - if one is going to do communion, it should include feet washing, Jesus included it, who gets to decide what is involved in communion, us or God- we are called to be followers of Christ

Not in the same category. Communion was recommended to "remember Jesus and what he accomplished on the Cross." It was not a commandment in the category of law.

Foot-washing not only wasn't a law of Jesus--it wasn't even a requirement under the Law of Moses. These are examples of good Christian practice, or examples of the same. We should remember Jesus whether we take communion or not. We should be servants of one another, whether we foot-wash them or not.

If we are to "remember Jesus" liturgically, then out of respect we should do so in a proper manner. Some think that taking grape juice instead of wine is illegitimate and not what Jesus said. Again, we must show respect to the degree we see it.

Those who turn the Christian commandments to "love God and love one another" into required rituals are endeavoring to impose a form of legalism on Christians, thus trying to impose control and dominion over those who are under the Lord. They should take warning from Paul...

1 Cor 7.19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
Gal 5.2 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

The rituals are not the significant part. Obedience is.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The rituals are not the significant part. Obedience is.

He is who I place my faith, not the words of man. Obedience to God is keeping God's commandments. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, thus saith the Lord Exo 20:8-11 Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 written by God. Exo 31:18 Can you tell me who has more Authority than He?


There is no scripture that says keep My commandments except the one I said to Remember, that one you can forget, the one commandment that uses the word holy and was blessed by God, that no man can reverse Num 23:20. Sounds like the same teaching that deceived Eve, doing the opposite of what God said. If one thinks worshipping the Lord on His holy day Isa 58:13 is just a ritual and can be forgotten probably wouldn’t enjoy heaven too much because it very much continues thus saith the Lord Isa 66:23. Started from the beginning, God’s perfect plan before sin Gen 2:1-3 will be there until the end Isa 66:23 its a matter of who we are going to listen to. Following the popular traditions of man, or being obedient to God. Mat 15:3-14 God wrote God spoke the Ten Commandments that includes the Sabbath that He placed in the same category as only worshiping Him and not to murder our neighbor, no one has more Authority than God. Sadly, its the same story, over and over again, people don’t seem to learn from the disobedience in scripture we are told not to follow Heb 4:11 Heb 4:6.

Jesus didn’t live just to die for our sins, He lived to show us how one lives a righteous life, if we abide in Him, we will follow His example. 1 John 2:6 John 15:4-5,10 1 Peter 2:21-22 so the teaching we do not have to do what Jesus asked or follow His example is not a biblical argument and seems like a bad idea to me, but we are given free will.

Guess this will all get sorted out soon enough. For me, Jesus said to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, there are a lot of thus saith the Lords and promises on His Sabbath and not one saying it was abrogated. God kept, Jesus kept, God spoke God wrote, Jesus is Lord of, thats where my faith lies in Him.

 

[RandyPNW]

He is who I place my faith, not the words of man.

Your own words are the "words of man." So for you, your words mean nothing. Not trying to be cute--it is what it is. We all have to interpret what we read in the Scriptures. Those are the interpretations of "Man."

Obedience to God is keeping God's commandments.

Paul informed us that the rituals of the Law are of no consequence. That's why he used circumcision as an example of meaningless externals of the Law, which of course includes initiation ceremonies and rituals. The commandments are not fixed rules, like passing a test. Rather, they are matters of the heart, informed by God's love and direction.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God..

Sabbath requirement is legalism under NT standards. We are not living under an outdated Jewish contract. We already know we cannot merit eternal life by obedience to obligations that "earn" Salvation. If so, then we must recognize that Christ alone obtained Salvation for us. He had no need to meet such requirements since he originated in perfection, and only came to fulfill requirements on our behalf.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your own words are the "words of man." So for you, your words mean nothing. Not trying to be cute--it is what it is. We all have to interpret what we read in the Scriptures. Those are the interpretations of "Man."

Paul informed us that the rituals of the Law are of no consequence. That's why he used circumcision as an example of meaningless externals of the Law, which of course includes initiation ceremonies and rituals. The commandments are not fixed rules, like passing a test. Rather, they are matters of the heart, informed by God's love and direction.

Sabbath requirement is legalism under NT standards. We are not living under an outdated Jewish contract. We already know we cannot merit eternal life by obedience to obligations that "earn" Salvation. If so, then we must recognize that Christ alone obtained Salvation for us. He had no need to meet such requirements since he originated in perfection, and only came to fulfill requirements on our behalf.

God said to Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy, God wrote these Words and spoke them that Jesus also kept and taught. He said and wrote them in the same unit He said to only worship Him and not to murder. They were never the Ten suggestions nor were they ever optional to the ones we think are okay or not. When we decide what to keep or not keep instead of living by what God said, it essentially makes one their own god.

Circumcision was never in the Ten Commandments so not sure why you keep trying to compare it as if it were. Paul contrasted circumcision with God's commandments, the Sabbath is one of God's commandments Exo 20:6, thus saith the Lord so it matters, just like only worshipping the one true God. 1 Cor 7:19 Exo 20:11

Sad one would think spending time with God on His holy day is legalism. We need to be careful, the devil has counterfeited everything God made holy, sanctified and good, who we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No God said toe Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy

How did you get from foot washing to Sabbath keeping?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How did you get from foot washing to Sabbath keeping?

Foot Washing

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can...

www.christianforums.com

I suggested to get back on topic.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Foot Washing

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can...

www.christianforums.com

I suggested to get back on topic.

Catholics wash feet on Holy Thursday, the day before Good Friday, every year. The Pope does it, every parish priest does it, many deacons do it. It is a part of remembering the first Holy Eucharist meal.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Catholics wash feet on Holy Thursday, the day before Good Friday, every year. The Pope does it, every parish priest does it, many deacons do it. It is a part of remembering the first Holy Eucharist meal.

Thats nice. Our whole church does it to each other. It should be part of every communion.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Thats nice. Our whole church does it to each other. It should be part of every communion.

If I am not mistaken SDA people have communion once a quarter. Catholics have the Holy Eucharist every time we have mass.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Some denominations practice ceremonial foot washing. An observation I made in a visit to a Greek Island in the 1960s was that the transport of goods was all done by donkey. Especially when one wears sandals, one becomes acutely aware of donkey manure. Combined with infrequent rainfall, this can become a significant problem. One might expect this ubiquitous problem to be mentioned in the bible simply as a necessary facet of daily life.

The Catholic Churches (in my experience) have foot washing on Holy Thursday which is the same day Christ would have washed the disciples feet. The priest does it, and the media usually manages to get a photo or video of the Pope doing the same thing in Rome.

As for stepping in donkey dollops, we don't have that problem in the modern west - dog dollops maybe from time to time. The worst the foot washer is likely to suffer is sweaty feet, but I suspect most volunteers to have their feet washed would also have washed their own feet beforehand if they knew they were going to be sitting in the washing seats.

These days as an act of courtesy for visitors we would probably offer them a cup of tea or coffee, and maybe biscuits or cake. If we were going to use a modern analogy, Christ would get out the cups, make the tea or coffee, cut up the cake, serve the guests Himself and wash the dishes afterwards.

But because we take that hospitality ritual for granted we probably would not even mention it if the Gospels were being written today.

 

[RandyPNW]

God said to Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy, God wrote these Words and spoke them that Jesus also kept and taught.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, because people like you just keep trudging on, ignoring the point, and it is critically important: What Jesus said under the Law applied while the Law was still in effect. THE LAW IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT!

So, if Jesus taught the10 Commandments as required, along with the command to "remember the Sabbath Day," it was understood to be part of God's contract with Israel that at the Cross was annulled. The requirements that kept Mankind out of the Garden were nailed to the Cross so that Israel could eventually enter into Paradise by Grace.

There is no longer need to honor certain Feast Days in order to be in compliance to an outdated Hebrew contract. Those festivals were preliminary to Christ's work of atonement, and ceased to be of value when Christ died and rose again.

We now have access to Christ in heaven purely by faith with no need whatsoever to keep the Law of Moses. At any rate, Gentiles never did need to obey that Contract, because God never intended uninversal Salvation to come through the Law. For Israel it was a way of keeping Israel in relationship with God until Christ could come and do his work.

Circumcision was never in the Ten Commandments so not sure why you keep trying to compare it as if it were. Paul contrasted circumcision with God's commandments, the Sabbath is one of God's commandments Exo 20:6, thus saith the Lord so it matters, just like only worshipping the one true God. 1 Cor 7:19 Exo 20:11

My point was that both Circumcision and Sabbath observance were requirements *under the Law.* You ignore this common element--all 613 or so requirements were part of "God's Commandments" under the Law. If Circumcision is no longer required under the New Covenant, that means the entire Law has been annulled under the New Covenant.

Do certain commandments remain in in common between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant? Yes, God's moral requirements for Man will never go away. We must always live in the image and likeness of God.

But that does not mean that the Old Covenant of Israel did not go away--it did! While morality did not go away with the passing of the Law, its fulfilllment in the New Covenant has taken its place.

Sad one would think spending time with God on His holy day is legalism.

What's sad to you is joyful to me. We are liberated from focusing on one day here and one day there. Today, we can approach God every day, knowing that for us Christ has made every day holy, and has now allowed our good works into his Kingdom. We don't have to rest in order to have our good works sanctioned.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, because people like you just keep trudging on, ignoring the point, and it is critically important: What Jesus said under the Law applied while the Law was still in effect. THE LAW IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT!

So, if Jesus taught the10 Commandments as required, along with the command to "remember the Sabbath Day," it was understood to be part of God's contract with Israel that at the Cross was annulled.

I'm more interested in what God said and Jesus told us to live by that what man says. If we are not part of God's Israel, we are not part of His promise and we can be part of it grafted in through our faith Gal 3:26-28, hence why God's law written in the heart is still with Israel Heb 8:10, rebelling against it, doesn't seem like a good idea Rom 8:7-8 1 John 2:4 Mat 7:23 . The Sabbath started at Creation when there was just man and in God's Kingdom, the Sabbath will be kept by all flesh (God's saints, not just Jews). Jesus never taught or lived what you're teaching, Jesus actually warned about it Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19.

There is no scripture that says God's law is no longer in affect.

One of the last scriptures of the bible before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Sadly, what you are teaching leaves people outside God's Kingdom Rev 22:15

 

[RandyPNW]

I'm more interested in what God said and Jesus told us to live by that what man says.

So, if you're to be consistent you should ignore what *you* say, because you're a "man." This kind of argument assumes that you have divine revelation and all those who disagree with you are thinking apart from divine revelation. That is a purely subjective claim, and self-serving, to boot. Please don't use this argument anymore, because it is completely worn out!!

If we are not part of God's Israel...

We are not part of "God's Israel," whatever that means? Israel is in the Middle East, and I'm a citizen of the US--not Jewish either. It seems you're into "Replacement Theology," which is making what you yourself have described as a "man's assumption." It is questionable whether you are operating under divine inspiration, or that your interpretation is correct.

, we are not part of His promise and we can be part of it grafted in through our faith Gal 3:26-28, hence why God's law written in the heart is still with Israel Heb 8:10, rebelling against it, doesn't seem like a good idea Rom 8:7-8 1 John 2:4 Mat 7:23 .

Yes, God's Law is written on our heart, but it is now a New Testament law--not the Law of Moses. Once Christ atoned for our sin, atonements made under the Law of Moses became meaningless. They were intended to precede and prefigure the atonement of Christ. The Law that is written on the hearts of Christians is the Law of God that *preexisted* the Law of Moses, described in Genesis 1 as the "Image of God."

The Sabbath started at Creation when there was just man and in God's Kingdom, the Sabbath will be kept by all flesh (God's saints, not just Jews).

You are here confusing two distinct Sabbaths, the Sabbath of Law with the Sabbath of Creation. Clearly, they are not the same thing!

Jesus never taught or lived what you're teaching, Jesus actually warned about it Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19.

There is no scripture that says God's law is no longer in affect.

The NT is chock full of NT theology which, by definition, supplanted the OT Law. You are clearly a Legalist. You can do what you want on Saturday...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, if you're to be consistent you should ignore what *you* say, because you're a "man."

I never quoted "me" I did not give or write God's commandments, God did. He is the greatest Authority we have and sadly Christians don't always seem recognize this for some strange reason. When a Christian means a follower of Christ. What did Jesus teach, how did He live. Thats what we are called to live by.

We are not part of "God's Israel," whatever that means? Israel is in the Middle East, and I'm a citizen of the US--not Jewish either. It seems you're into "Replacement Theology," which is making what you yourself have described as a "man's assumption." It is questionable whether you are operating under divine inspiration, or that your interpretation is correct.

Yes, God's Law is written on our heart, but it is now a New Testament law--not the Law of Moses. Once Christ atoned for our sin, atonements made under the Law of Moses became meaningless. They were intended to precede and prefigure the atonement of Christ. The Law that is written on the hearts of Christians is the Law of God that *preexisted* the Law of Moses, described in Genesis 1 as the "Image of God."

You keep using your words, but I am going to have to rely on what God's Word says.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jesus said when we reject God's commandments in lieu of our own rules quoting right from the Ten Commandments ones heart is far from Him Mat 15:3-14 because it is rejecting what God placed there- His law and makes one an enmity with God Rom 8:7-8 Mat 7:21-23 1 John 2:4. Moses never wrote God's Ten Commandments- God did and claimed them as His. Deut 4:13 Exo 20:6

God's covenant is still with Israel. We are grafted in through faith Gal 3:26-28 Rom 2:28-29 Romans 11:11-36.