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Following Truth

BobRyan

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What about?

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Good question. Thank you for pointing that out.

Matt 7 says "Judge NOT that you be not judged".

This command to not judge others is no different post cross than it is pre-cross.

The annual shadow Sabbaths and festivals of Lev 23 end at the cross when all animal sacrifice and offerings end as Heb 10:4-12 points out.

As for the "Commandments of God" where "the first commandment with a promise is 'Honor your father and mother'" Eph 6:2 -- in that still-valid unit of TEN.

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

But Rom 8 makes it clear that it is only the lost that "DO NOT submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:5-11
- and when the lost become saved they are under the "NEW Covenant" with the "LAW of God written on the heart" Heb 8:6-12.

So then Rom 3:31 "what then? Do we make void the Law of God by our faith? ON the contrary - we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus


Jesus died for the debt of sin of the whole world
"He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The "many" of Matt 7 will be lost
The "few" of Matt 7 will be saved.

Rom 2:13-16 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just - but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified - ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"
 
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BobRyan

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You are absolutely correct when you say God cannot be just and hold us responsible for not keeping a law we cannot keep. The possibility must be there one way or another or God is a liar and a tyrant.
Amen - and Rom 8"4-12 says that it is only true of the lost - who are without the Holy Spirit -- that "they DO NOT submit to the LAW of God , neither indeed CAN they"

Which is the opposite of the Heb 8:6-12 NEW COVENANT case where the "LAW of God is written on the heart"

So then Rom 3:31 " Do we make void the Law of God by our faith? ON the contrary - we ESTABLISH the Law of God"
 
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The annual shadow Sabbaths and festivals of Lev 23 end at the cross when all animal sacrifice and offerings end as Heb 10:4-12 points out.
What is a shadow sabbath?
 
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BobRyan

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So besides helping the poor, what are some other ways I should be practicing righteousness?
Matt 22 - says

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

1 Cor 7:19 says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Where "the first commandment with a promise is "honor your father and mother"' - Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN
 
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BobRyan

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What is a shadow sabbath?
A predictive Sabbath as we see in the list of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 pointing to the death of Christ - such that in 1 Cor 5 we have "Christ our PASSOVER has been sacrificed".

All annual Sabbaths based in "Sacrifice and offerings" when created - end with those sacrifices and offerings - at the cross as Heb 10:4-12 points out.

By contrast for all eternity after the cross in the NEW Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 ..

The moral law of God is not edited or downsized and the UNIT of TEN was recognized in scripture as a key part of the Law of God such that Deut 5:22 says "He spoke these ten words - and added no more" referencing God speaking to all the nation at Sinai from the pillar of cloud.

And Jesus said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath"

This contrast/distinction between ceremonial shadow-systems pointing to Christ's work at His first advent - vs the moral law of God in the "Commandments of God" is not only noted in 1 Cor 7:19

But you can also find this in almost every Christian denomination on planet Earth.


Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today as included in the moral law of God.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..
 
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A predictive Sabbath as we see in the list of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 pointing to the death of Christ - such that in 1 Cor 5 we have "Christ our PASSOVER has been sacrificed".

All annual Sabbaths based in "Sacrifice and offerings" when created - end with those sacrifices and offerings - at the cross as Heb 10:4-12 points out.

By contrast for all eternity after the cross in the NEW Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 ..

The moral law of God is not edited or downsized and the UNIT of TEN was recognized in scripture as a key part of the Law of God such that Deut 5:22 says "He spoke these ten words - and added no more" referencing God speaking to all the nation at Sinai from the pillar of cloud.

And Jesus said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath"

This contrast/distinction between ceremonial shadow-systems pointing to Christ's work at His first advent - vs the moral law of God in the "Commandments of God" is not only noted in 1 Cor 7:19

But you can also find this in almost every Christian denomination on planet Earth.


Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today as included in the moral law of God.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..
*Edited after seeing forum rules ... standby
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Can I be saved and not observe the Sabbath?
Replace your question with any of the other 9 commandments- can you be saved by worshipping other gods, or coveting, or committing murder, without having a change in heart and direction through repentance. God never separated the Sabbath in this unit of Ten man did. They are all equally important for God's people Rev 14:12 The Sabbath is about spending time with Him on the day He set aside, blessed, and sanctified for holy use because man can't sanctify themselves only God can Eze 20:12 and sadly so many misses out on this wonderful blessing God is trying to give us. Isa 58:13-14

Sabbath worship is not going to end so if one is so opposed to Sabbath worship now, will they be happy in heaven? Isa 66:22-23. God loves us so much; He would never want us to do something that is against our will. Obeying Him is a choice through love and faith.
 
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BobRyan

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Can I be saved and not observe the Sabbath?
God's commandments say not to bow before graven images or promise to serve those they represent. Not everyone agrees , not everyone is in line with that - but that does not mean that they are not saved. James 4:17 "to him that KNOWS to do good and does it not - to him it is sin"
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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There are many people who are described as being righteous in the Bible
God called them righteous because they had Jesus' righteousness on them, not because they were without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin, this is the righteousness they had. James 2 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. We are all transgressors of the law.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 says that God's law is not too difficult to obey
You know the story of the young rich ruler? What do the disciples say after? “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. So how can the law be not too difficult to obey but at the same time be impossible? It is not too difficult to obey because God wrote it on a heart of a believer. Why do you think Israel had to sacrifice all the time?

however, I still see living in obedience to God's law as being an intrinsic part of the gift of being saved from not living in obedience to it.
Luke 18 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Why was the the sinner who did not follow God's law justified? Why not the one who was living by God's law? Why was God not merciful towards the Pharisee, he behaved better than the tax collector.

Luke 23 39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
What commandments was the thief keeping? He called Jesus Lord and repented, that's all.

King David, slept with someone's wife, and then ordained things to have her husband murdered. He lied. He made himself 'God' by counting the armies of Israel.

Abraham - Abraham was called righteous because he believed God's promise, not because of his deeds, for Abraham sinned many times.

Yes, these men believed God, they repented, but regeneration comes first.
For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it is given to him by the Father” (John 6:65).

Jesus is saying that, without exception, there is no human being who can come to Him unless it is given to him of the Father. This is an absolute,
No one has the ability to come to Jesus.

'Unless' is a necessary condition. So Jesus is saying that there is a necessary condition that must be met before anyone can come to Him. This verse is teaching is that none of us has the natural ability in and of ourselves to come to Christ unless God does something.

John 6:44: “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws Him.” This is not quite as ambiguous. Here, the necessary condition Jesus spells out is that the Father draws somebody.
Our Lord Jesus taught that it is impossible for a human being to come to Him unless that person is drawn by the Father.
But what does it mean that God draws?

The classical Arminian approach, or semi-Pelagian approach, is that nobody can come to Jesus unless the Father entices or woos him. That is usually tied into some notion of prevenient grace, or the influence of the Holy Spirit to woo and entice. The word “draw” in John 6:44 is interpreted to mean “to woo” or “to attract,” just as honey draws bees and lights draw moths. The idea is that the drawing God does is still resistible. According to Arminianism, those who respond to the enticement—to being wooed—are redeemed, and those who do not respond to being drawn are subsequently lost.

Let’s see how this Greek word is used elsewhere in the New Testament. If we turn our Bibles to James 2:6, we will find this same Greek word. The verse says: “But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?” This verse uses the exact same Greek word that is translated by the word “draw” in John 6. Do you have a guess as to which word that might be? It’s the word “drag.” Now let’s supply the semi-Pelagian interpretation: “But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally woo you into court?”

If that isn’t sufficient with respect to man’s ability, let’s look earlier in John’s Gospel where John describes the encounter that Jesus has with the Pharisee, the theologian, Nicodemus: “Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Truly, truly I say to you, unless (remember that “unless” indicates a necessary condition) one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God’” (John 3:3).

According to Jesus, what has to happen before a person can see the kingdom of God? He has to be born again. Regeneration precedes seeing the kingdom of God. In fact, nobody can see it at all unless they are first born again—regenerate.

John goes on to say that Nicodemus is puzzled: “Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can a man be born when he is old? He can’t enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born, can he?’ Jesus said, ‘Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’” (John 3:4–5). Regeneration is a prerequisite for entering and seeing the kingdom of God.

Semi-Pelagians have people choosing Christ before they are regenerate. Semi-Pelagians have people in their human nature cooperating with prevenient grace, responding to this wooing, enticing, or attracting of God when the Holy Spirit is not yet in them and has not yet regenerated them. The bottom line is that the Arminian position has people who are not yet born again seeing and choosing the King of the kingdom of God. Boggles the mind, doesn’t it?

Regeneration precedes faith. Regeneration is seen as a necessary condition for faith, as Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:4–5. He says that, while we were dead in sin and trespasses, God quickened us, that is, made us alive in Christ—when we were dead!

Paul then tells us, “Therefore it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that is not of yourselves, but is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). So we see that faith is the gift of God which is the result of the Spirit’s work of regeneration within us. God Himself supplies the necessary condition to come to Jesus. That’s why it is sola gratia, by grace alone, that we are saved.

Next, Jesus says: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you that you must be born again” (John 3:6–7). Jesus is saying: “Why should this surprise you? You’re a theologian, Nicodemus. Don’t you understand the fundamental point of man’s fallen nature? That which is born of the flesh is flesh.”

Elsewhere He tells us that the flesh profits nothing (John 6:63). But if we believe that God entices us to Christ and all we have to do in the flesh prior to our regeneration is cooperate or assent—if we can in fact cooperate and assent to prevenient grace—to the end that we enter into the kingdom of God and are redeemed forever, and we’re doing that while we’re still in the flesh, then I ask you: What would the flesh profit? Not just something, but everything—your eternal salvation.

Paul speaks about this in Romans: “For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace because the mind set on the flesh is hostile towards God. For it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do it” (Romans 8:5–7).

Here the Apostle tells us something about man’s moral inability in the flesh. He says that man in his fallen state, in the flesh, is hostile to the law of God. He does not obey the law of God, he is not subject to the law of God, and neither indeed can he be. The Apostle is saying that fallen man cannot obey the law of God and “those who are in the flesh cannot please God” (Rom. 8:8).

If God only wooed us to Christ and left it to us to make the final decision, nothing would please Him more than that we would respond positively to that enticement and wooing. But the Apostle tells us that, in the flesh, there is nothing man can do to please God.

It's not abut who keeps more commandments, that person is saved. Or who is trying to keep the commandments. I myself broke all the commandments as a non-Christian, and so did many others, yet I am saved. No one is good enough, that's why God send a Saviour.
Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God
And so do I delight in keeping Lord's commandments. When Christians ask me what they can pray for me, I always say first that I love God and obey Him. This is not me saying do not keep God's commandments, I'm saying ask God to be merciful to me sinner. Psalm 32
Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 2 Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them and in whose spirit is no deceit.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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That is only true of the lost
Every Christian was once lost. Did you keep God's commandments before you were saved? As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;

Jesus died for the debt of sin of the whole world
Well if that was the case, then we are all saved. Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ.
God has mitigated His wrath on sinners temporarily; by letting them live and enjoy earthly life. In that sense, Christ has provided a brief, temporal propitiation for the whole world. But He satisfied fully the wrath of God eternally only for the elect who believe.

Christ’s death had unlimited and infinite value because He is Holy God. Thus, His sacrifice was sufficient to pay the penalty for all the sins of all whom God brings to faith. But the actual satisfaction and atonement was made only for those who believe.
 
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Gary K

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Every Christian was once lost. Did you keep God's commandments before you were saved? As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;


Well if that was the case, then we are all saved. Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ.
God has mitigated His wrath on sinners temporarily; by letting them live and enjoy earthly life. In that sense, Christ has provided a brief, temporal propitiation for the whole world. But He satisfied fully the wrath of God eternally only for the elect who believe.

Christ’s death had unlimited and infinite value because He is Holy God. Thus, His sacrifice was sufficient to pay the penalty for all the sins of all whom God brings to faith. But the actual satisfaction and atonement was made only for those who believe.
Do you believe you owe a debt of gratitude for Christ's sacrifice?
 
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BobRyan

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I did not say we shouldn't follow God's law and commandments, I said we are not capable of it.
That is only true of the lost according to Rom 8.


Galatians 3 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.
True - because all start out as lost - as being in need of the gospel as Rom 3:19 says "every mouth shut and all the world accountable unto God" under the Law which defines what sin is.

But Rom 8 makes it clear that it is only the lost that "DO NOT submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:5-11
Since none of us keeps the law perfectly, we are all under a curse. Jesus Christ took this curse on Him so in Him we might be justified.
True - and when the lost become saved they are under the "NEW Covenant" with the "LAW of God written on the heart" Heb 8:6-12.

So then Rom 3:31 "what then? Do we make void the Law of God by our faith? ON the contrary - we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus
Does that then mean because we are saved, we no longer have to keep God's commandments? Don't even think about it. Who loves Lord Jesus, keeps His commandments, but we do not keep His commandments to be saved,
true.
because God already provided the payment for the sins of every born again believer.
Jesus died for the debt of sin of the whole world
"He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The "many" of Matt 7 will be lost
The "few" of Matt 7 will be saved.

Rom 2:13-16 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just - but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified - ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

Every Christian was once lost. Did you keep God's commandments before you were saved? As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
Which is why everyone needs Christ - everyone needs the Gospel

Jesus died for the debt of sin of the whole world
"He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2
Well if that was the case, then we are all saved.

No because as 1 John 2:2 informs us - this is atonement, and the atoning sacrifice. But it requires confession. The atonement model of the Bible is not apart from confession and repentance. When the sinner confesses and repents that blood is applied - his/her sins are forgiven.

Most of the world will be eternally condemned
true.
to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ.
This is not a grocery store payment system but a Bible "Atonement" system where confession and repentance are required for that transaction to take place.
 
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Replace your question with any of the other 9 commandments- can you be saved by worshipping other gods, or coveting, or committing murder. God never separated the Sabbath in this unit of Ten man did. They are all equally important for God's people Rev 14:12

Sabbath worship is not going to end so if one is so opposed to Sabbath worship now, will they be happy in heaven? Isa 66:22-23. God loves us so much, He would never want us to do something that is against our will. Obeying Him is a choice through love and faith.
I will exclude the first commandment, because that one is obvious.
What does Jesus say though?

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


If I sin, which I do, do I forfeit salvation? Or is it the Grace and sacrifice by Jesus on the cross which saves me?
I am not against the sabbath inherently, I am against a sabbath based salvation though.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
 
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God's commandments say not to bow before graven images or promise to serve those they represent. Not everyone agrees , not everyone is in line with that - but that does not mean that they are not saved. James 4:17 "to him that KNOWS to do good and does it not - to him it is sin"
Ya but there's alot more than just graven images in regards to that which causes concern.
 
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A predictive Sabbath as we see in the list of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 pointing to the death of Christ - such that in 1 Cor 5 we have "Christ our PASSOVER has been sacrificed".

All annual Sabbaths based in "Sacrifice and offerings" when created - end with those sacrifices and offerings - at the cross as Heb 10:4-12 points out
When you say annual sabbaths, are you referring to the feast days?

What I dont understand is how you can say clearly that sacrifices and offerings end at the cross with this.
Heb 10:5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;
Heb 10:6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
Heb 10:8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.


But not the sabbath adherence with this...

Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!


Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Col 2:20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations
Col 2:21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”
Col 2:22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings?
Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.


Christ is the fulfillment, you dont put old wine into new skins.

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Just to speak plainly, I have no issue if someone wants to observe the sabbath. The question I always ask though is why?
 
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BobRyan

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When you say annual sabbaths, are you referring to the feast days?

What I dont understand is how you can say clearly that sacrifices and offerings end at the cross with this.
Heb 10:5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;
Heb 10:6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
Heb 10:8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

But not the sabbath adherence with this...
There are no animal sacrifices in the making of the Sabbath as a holy day , set apart, sanctified as a day of worship and rest.

Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath is made AS the 7th day of creation week - before any sin,,, before any Jew. No animal sacrifices or offerings

Mark 2:27 "made for mankind" not mankind "made" for the Sabbath. In the Gen 1- 2 origins teaching of scripture we have the making of "both" the Sabbath and mankind.

Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" -- no animal sacrifices or offerings there either

Ex 20:8-11 the entire Sabbath commandment -- no animal sacrifices.

Ex 20:11 points directly to the Gen 2:1-3 origin for the seventh day observance.

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth all of mankind worshipping "from Sabbath to Sabbath" and as we all know from Heb 10 -- no animal sacrifices after the cross.
Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!
In the Gal 4 we find nothing about the Commandments of God ever said to be "weak and beggarly" or "worthless elementary principles of the world". Paul is not condemning the Word of God in Gal 4.

Rather he is addressing former pagans who are 'returning once again to some of their pagan practices and observances.

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? 10 You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.
.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Col 2:20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations
Col 2:21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”
Col 2:22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings?
Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Christ is the fulfillment, you dont put old wine into new skins.
He is the fulfillment of predictive Sabbaths -- annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 "Christ our Passover has been slain" 1 Cor 5. But the Gen 2:2-3 Sabbath did not "predict anything" . Rather in Ex 20:8-11 it is a MEMORIAL "Remember the Sabbath day... for in six days the Lord made... and rested the seventh day therefore the Lord blessed the SABBATH day and made it holy"

Jesus perfectly complied with moral imperative law (fulfilled) like "do not take God's name in vain" and "remember the Sabbath day - keep it holy". And he perfectly fulfilled the messianic prediction in messianic-predictive law such as Passover, Feast of first fruits etc.

And for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 -- no animal sacrifices there either.

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
That is Christ quoting Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "love your neighbor as yourself" from the Law of Moses.

His argument is that all of scripture "all the law and the prophets" are firmly based on that solid foundation. Jesus is not deleting all of scripture in Matt 22. Even the Jews agree with Christ's summation as you see in Mark 12:28-34. So this idea was not new to them.


Matt 19 Jesus said "if you want to inherit eternal life - KEEP the Commandments" and Jesus is asked "Which ones?"

He then quotes from the TEN and adds Lev 19:18 but does not include Deut 6:5 because He is not giving an exhaustive list.
Just to speak plainly, I have no issue if someone wants to observe the sabbath. The question I always ask though is why?
Understood - I am just addressing those concerns - not trying to say anything negative about asking those questions.
 
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Soyeong

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God called them righteous because they had Jesus' righteousness on them, not because they were without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin, this is the righteousness they had. James 2 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. We are all transgressors of the law.
In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Jesus. Someone would not earn their righteousness by obeying God's law even if the managed to live in perfect obedience to it (Romans 4:1-5) because God's law was never given as a means of earning righteousness. In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and obey God's law more consistently.

You know the story of the young rich ruler? What do the disciples say after? “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. So how can the law be not too difficult to obey but at the same time be impossible? It is not too difficult to obey because God wrote it on a heart of a believer. Why do you think Israel had to sacrifice all the time?
With God nothing is impossible, including obeying God's law. The reason why someone chooses not to sell all that they have is not because it is beyond their ability to do that.

Luke 18 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Why was the the sinner who did not follow God's law justified? Why not the one who was living by God's law? Why was God not merciful towards the Pharisee, he behaved better than the tax collector.
It was about pride and humility.

Luke 23 39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
What commandments was the thief keeping? He called Jesus Lord and repented, that's all.
In Proverbs 3:5-7, we can either lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by choosing to do what is right in our own eyes or trust in God with all of heart to correctly divide between right and wrong by choosing to obey what He has instructed in all of our ways and He will make our way straight, and this is what it means to have faith. However, we can still have faith by being someone who chooses to obey what God has instructed even when we are physically prevented from doing that.

King David, slept with someone's wife, and then ordained things to have her husband murdered. He lied. He made himself 'God' by counting the armies of Israel.
He repented of his sins.

Abraham - Abraham was called righteous because he believed God's promise, not because of his deeds, for Abraham sinned many times.
While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:7), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed as being and obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as a wage as the result of his obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were an expression of his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

Yes, these men believed God, they repented, but regeneration comes first.
For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it is given to him by the Father” (John 6:65).

Jesus is saying that, without exception, there is no human being who can come to Him unless it is given to him of the Father. This is an absolute,
No one has the ability to come to Jesus.

'Unless' is a necessary condition. So Jesus is saying that there is a necessary condition that must be met before anyone can come to Him. This verse is teaching is that none of us has the natural ability in and of ourselves to come to Christ unless God does something.

John 6:44: “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws Him.” This is not quite as ambiguous. Here, the necessary condition Jesus spells out is that the Father draws somebody.
Our Lord Jesus taught that it is impossible for a human being to come to Him unless that person is drawn by the Father.
But what does it mean that God draws?

The classical Arminian approach, or semi-Pelagian approach, is that nobody can come to Jesus unless the Father entices or woos him. That is usually tied into some notion of prevenient grace, or the influence of the Holy Spirit to woo and entice. The word “draw” in John 6:44 is interpreted to mean “to woo” or “to attract,” just as honey draws bees and lights draw moths. The idea is that the drawing God does is still resistible. According to Arminianism, those who respond to the enticement—to being wooed—are redeemed, and those who do not respond to being drawn are subsequently lost.

Let’s see how this Greek word is used elsewhere in the New Testament. If we turn our Bibles to James 2:6, we will find this same Greek word. The verse says: “But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?” This verse uses the exact same Greek word that is translated by the word “draw” in John 6. Do you have a guess as to which word that might be? It’s the word “drag.” Now let’s supply the semi-Pelagian interpretation: “But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally woo you into court?”

If that isn’t sufficient with respect to man’s ability, let’s look earlier in John’s Gospel where John describes the encounter that Jesus has with the Pharisee, the theologian, Nicodemus: “Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Truly, truly I say to you, unless (remember that “unless” indicates a necessary condition) one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God’” (John 3:3).

According to Jesus, what has to happen before a person can see the kingdom of God? He has to be born again. Regeneration precedes seeing the kingdom of God. In fact, nobody can see it at all unless they are first born again—regenerate.

John goes on to say that Nicodemus is puzzled: “Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can a man be born when he is old? He can’t enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born, can he?’ Jesus said, ‘Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’” (John 3:4–5). Regeneration is a prerequisite for entering and seeing the kingdom of God.

Semi-Pelagians have people choosing Christ before they are regenerate. Semi-Pelagians have people in their human nature cooperating with prevenient grace, responding to this wooing, enticing, or attracting of God when the Holy Spirit is not yet in them and has not yet regenerated them. The bottom line is that the Arminian position has people who are not yet born again seeing and choosing the King of the kingdom of God. Boggles the mind, doesn’t it?

Regeneration precedes faith. Regeneration is seen as a necessary condition for faith, as Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:4–5. He says that, while we were dead in sin and trespasses, God quickened us, that is, made us alive in Christ—when we were dead!
God needs to take the initiative of being gracious to us by teaching us how to intimately know Him by having the experience of expressing his nature before we can choose to intimately know Him by obeying His instructions. In other words, we need to first be graciously taught how to embody God's word before we can intimately know the one who is the embodiment of God's word. Eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus (John 17:3) and God needs to take the initiative by teaching how to have that experience by walking in His way in obedience to His law before we can have that experience (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23).

A chip off the old block is someone who has the same character or nature as their father expressed through doing the same works and this is what we are becoming when we are born again as children of God. This is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God insofar as he is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so that is also the sense that we are children of God when we are partaking in the divine nature through following his example. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied in accordance with the promise is by people becoming born again as children of Abraham by being taught to turn from their wickedness and how to do the same works as him in accordance with spreading the Gospel. This is also why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God (1 John 3:10) and why those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law (Romans 8:4-7).

Paul then tells us, “Therefore it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that is not of yourselves, but is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). So we see that faith is the gift of God which is the result of the Spirit’s work of regeneration within us. God Himself supplies the necessary condition to come to Jesus. That’s why it is sola gratia, by grace alone, that we are saved.
In Ephesians 2:10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, choosing to have the experience of doing good works is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of being saved from having the experience of not choosing to do good works.

It's not abut who keeps more commandments, that person is saved. Or who is trying to keep the commandments. I myself broke all the commandments as a non-Christian, and so did many others, yet I am saved. No one is good enough, that's why God send a Saviour.
Again, living in obedience to God's law through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to be good enough.

And so do I delight in keeping Lord's commandments. When Christians ask me what they can pray for me, I always say first that I love God and obey Him. This is not me saying do not keep God's commandments, I'm saying ask God to be merciful to me sinner. Psalm 32
Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 2 Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them and in whose spirit is no deceit.
That is good when so many prefer to argue that they have been done away with.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I will exclude the first commandment, because that one is obvious.
What does Jesus say though?

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


If I sin, which I do, do I forfeit salvation? Or is it the Grace and sacrifice by Jesus on the cross which saves me?
I am not against the sabbath inherently, I am against a sabbath based salvation though.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
The sin is not the real issue- we are covered by His blood, we have a loving Father who wants nothing more than for His children to come to Him with our burden of sin and give it to Him so we can overcome our sin and walk with Him in obedience though His Spirit. The issue is not sin, it is sinning, living in perpetual sin, not going to Jesus for confession and repentance which is a change in direction. What is dangerous is becoming comfortable in our sins where we no longer hear the Holy Spirit calling us in that small voice and start to cover our sins Heb 3:7-8 Pro 28:13. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and the law quoted from is the Ten Commandments. Romans 7:7 what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 Matthew 5:19-30 The commandments are like a mirror so we can see our sins and shows us our need for Jesus to help cleanse us from all our unrighteousness and walk with Him through His Spirit in obedience. John 14:15-18 Rom 8:4-8 If we stumble and fall along the way we have an Advocate with Jesus we can turn to, but when we sin we should not delay our confession- sin separates us from God through the blood of Jesus we can be reconciled but it requires our cooperation. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 and through Jesus it is possible to overcome. Matthew 19:26 John 14:15-18 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Psalms 119:142 Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your Law is truth.

Are you in favor of following truth or not? Why or why not?
The law reveals truth, that we are all sinners and in need of our Messiah, Jesus Christ of Nazareth who restores the hearts of those who love Him. Blessings.
 
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BobRyan

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I will exclude the first commandment, because that one is obvious.
What does Jesus say though?

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
In those cases Jesus affirms and strengthens the text of scripture. So in the case of "do not kill" He does not say "well actually go and kill a few times but try to keep it at a minimum". His response is to strengthen - deepen the understanding of existing scripture.
If I sin, which I do, do I forfeit salvation? Or is it the Grace and sacrifice by Jesus on the cross which saves me?
I am not against the sabbath inherently, I am against a sabbath based salvation though.
Why would we have any "obedience based salvation"?
Why should we not tell the lost "just decide not to take God's name in vain and that will earn you salvation"?

We don't believe in salvation by works - but that does not mean we delete the command that says "do not take God's name in vain"
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Which is all the more reason to compare everything to scripture especially if someone is teaching that scripture is to be edited or deleted.
 
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