Following Christ

[Pal Handy]

These are some of my thoughts and not meant to be condemning but
are questions I have and am asking myself.

More love, that's what I think the result of following Christ will bring....

I need more love....

"They will know you are my disciples by your love one for another"

Are we at the level we should be?

Is Christ the one we go to for our direction in His words and by His
guidance in our lives or do we defer to others because Christ seems
like He is not available so we go to others to fill the gap?

Is Christ my FIRST LOVE?

Are His words too hard to actually follow?

Is our love based on what Christ has done for us or what others offer to us.

Is our loved based on personalities, churches, doctrines, ministries or
are we pressing to be conformed into the image and likeness of Christ.

If people fall outside our acceptable groups, churches, ministries or
doctrinal statements, is our love of others as Christ loves us, diminished?

ps go easy on me...I'm new

 

[stormdancer0]

These are some of my thoughts and not meant to be condemning but
are questions I have and am asking myself.

More love, that's what I think the result of following Christ will bring....

I need more love....

"They will know you are my disciples by your love one for another"

Are we at the level we should be?

Is Christ the one we go to for our direction in His words and by His
guidance in our lives or do we defer to others because Christ seems
like He is not available so we go to others to fill the gap?

Is Christ my FIRST LOVE?

Are His words too hard to actually follow?

Is our love based on what Christ has done for us or what others offer to us.

Is our loved based on personalities, churches, doctrines, ministries or
are we pressing to be conformed into the image and likeness of Christ.

If people fall outside our acceptable groups, churches, ministries or
doctrinal statements, is our love of others as Christ loves us, diminished?

ps go easy on me...I'm new

I think we have to love all men - but that does not mean we accept the actions and philosophies of all men. If I see you standing on a busy road, it would be the height of hate to let you stay there, even if you feel like that's where you belong. In the same way, if I see someone who is living in sin (according to God's Word), but thinking it's moral and okay because they "feel" right, it is my Christian duty to point out the error, and I must do it with love.

I guess I'm trying to say that accepting someone is not the same as loving them. Sometimes, the most un-loving thing you can do is accept a sinful lifestyle of a loved one. Even God gave people over to their sin when they were so entrenched in that lifestyle that they would not hear Him.

Romans 1:24-32 Because of this, God gave them up to impurity in the lusts of their hearts, their bodies to be dishonored among themselves, (25) who changed the truth of God into the lie, and worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (26) Because of this, God gave them up to dishonorable passions, for even their females changed the natural use to that contrary to nature. (27) And likewise, the males also forsaking the natural use of the female burned in their lust toward one another, males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving back within themselves the reward which was fitting for their error. (28) And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right, (29) having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, iniquity, covetousness, malice, being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, (30) slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, braggarts, devisers of evil things, disobedient to parents, (31) without discernment, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful, (32) who knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve those practicing them.

 

[Pal Handy]

I think we have to love all men - but that does not mean we accept the actions and philosophies of all men. If I see you standing on a busy road, it would be the height of hate to let you stay there, even if you feel like that's where you belong. In the same way, if I see someone who is living in sin (according to God's Word), but thinking it's moral and okay because they "feel" right, it is my Christian duty to point out the error, and I must do it with love.

I guess I'm trying to say that accepting someone is not the same as loving them. Sometimes, the most un-loving thing you can do is accept a sinful lifestyle of a loved one. Even God gave people over to their sin when they were so entrenched in that lifestyle that they would not hear Him.

Romans 1:24-32 Because of this, God gave them up to impurity in the lusts of their hearts, their bodies to be dishonored among themselves, (25) who changed the truth of God into the lie, and worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (26) Because of this, God gave them up to dishonorable passions, for even their females changed the natural use to that contrary to nature. (27) And likewise, the males also forsaking the natural use of the female burned in their lust toward one another, males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving back within themselves the reward which was fitting for their error. (28) And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right, (29) having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, iniquity, covetousness, malice, being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, (30) slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, braggarts, devisers of evil things, disobedient to parents, (31) without discernment, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful, (32) who knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve those practicing them.

Love should have nothing to do with our approving of someones actions before we will love them.

We base love on performance but God bases His love on His choice,
God chooses to love us all, sinner or saint with the same absolute love
that sent Christ to the cross for all sins of all men for all time.

I am not talking about the performance based love that permeates
many of our churches and the hearts of many people but I am talking about Christ's love.

Christ said to love others as I HAVE LOVED YOU.

How does Christ love us?

Completely, absolutely as a choice not base on how good or bad we are
but because of how great and merciful and loving our God is.

You or I cannot love like this unless we ask God to love through us
in the way He wants to love others.

The woman caught in the act of adultry....
Jesus eating in the homes of sinners...
The woman at the well who was living with a man outside of marriage.

Jesus loved these people and reached out to them not because they were
good enough but because He is love...God is love...

This love doesn't enable or codone sin but it destroys sins power over
others by breaking the condemnation that the enemy uses to drive people away
from God and then by offering a pardon for sin through Christ's sacrifice.

God chooses to love us, not enable us...

God's great mercy is meant to lead us to repentance...

The time for God's wrath is not yet but we live in the time of God's
grace and mercy, a time of God's blessings raining down on the just and the
unjust.

Anyway....if we are to love our enemies, why do we fight with our
brothers and sisters in Christ?

I think it is because we have taken our eyes off Christ and we are
looking around at others and sizing them up as compared to ourselves.

I have experienced great love in groups of people and I have seen
people who have come to church off the street, turned away because
they did not meet a dress code....

Just saying, has to be more to it than what I normally see and
it has to start with me and anyone else who sees the need.....

I want more....

 

[praisehimalleluia]

Hi all, its been a long time. Nice to be back. Just had my break after exams

Well, this is a tough call on Christians. Having said that we are to love, regardless of the nature of people around us, I remember the saying, Christ came for the sick, not the healthy. So I think it is to love unconditionally, with all our hearts without prejudiced minds. That is the purest form of love one can show they are of Christ.

I remember ministering to a drug addict and a prostitute recently. It was weird, they thought, when I told them they can be assured of salvation, if only they accept salvation which is freely given by the saviour. Well that is a great start to bring them to listen to what I am about to say. Cause these ppl think we look down on them, when we are not supposed to.

I think an act of kindness brings the spark of our flame of love within this sinners hearts. Touch them, and they will touch their soul in Christ.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Pal Handy. In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Jesus tells us: if we love Him, we follow His Commandments. You say" Following Christ," when Jesus was told by the young man: " I already do all that," Jesus tells him: " If you want to be perfect, give all you have to the poor and needy, and then follow me." Jesus gives us two ways of proving our love to Him: " Love God as He deserves to be loved, and love or neighbour as ourselves. Or: Following Him, and do as He does, give our All: Life and possessions. Most of us are slowly, but surly, changing from being selfish to loving as God wants us to love: God with all our being and our neighbour: all others, friends or not friends, As we love ourselves. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy to share with our neighbour, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love. Jesus told us, " ask and ye will receive," and we then share our love and all things God gives us, with our neighbour/each other. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. I say this with love, Pal Handy. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. a good way to start: " treat all we know and meet as we would love to be treated," Love is very catching, and given time and effort it will become second nature to us.

 

[Pal Handy]

Dear Pal Handy. In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Jesus tells us: if we love Him, we follow His Commandments. You say" Following Christ," when Jesus was told by the young man: " I already do all that," Jesus tells him: " If you want to be perfect, give all you have to the poor and needy, and then follow me." Jesus gives us two ways of proving our love to Him: " Love God as He deserves to be loved, and love or neighbour as ourselves. Or: Following Him, and do as He does, give our All: Life and possessions. Most of us are slowly, but surly, changing from being selfish to loving as God wants us to love: God with all our being and our neighbour: all others, friends or not friends, As we love ourselves. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy to share with our neighbour, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love. Jesus told us, " ask and ye will receive," and we then share our love and all things God gives us, with our neighbour/each other. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. I say this with love, Pal Handy. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. a good way to start: " treat all we know and meet as we would love to be treated," Love is very catching, and given time and effort it will become second nature to us.

Thanks...

Love is the answer...
God is love....
Jesus Christ is God...Emanuel, God with man...

Perfect love casts out fear..
Why?
Because if we really know that God loves us, we will trust in Him
and know that no matter what happens, if we trust, God will see us through.

No one is perfect, for that we need Christ.

Only Christ is the perfect God, the perfect man.

All that we do on our own is as filthy rags but all that is done
through Christ in us is acceptable.


That scripture you quoted of the rich man perplexed me for years.

Is this what God calls each and every saint to?

It dawned on me one day what Christ was offering the rich man...
to be one of His disciples. Jesus was offering Him a place among
those that were ordained by His Father to be one of the 12 apostles.

What was the cost?

Everything....

All those who followed Jesus as His intimate disciples had all given up
their all and left family, friends, businesses and the security of the old life
and they followed Jesus.

When the man went away sad Jesus said many are called but few are chosen,
referring to His Fathers choice of who would be Christ's disciples.

So....I rest in the fact that I must make choices as God offers to me
opportunities to serve Him.

I was not offered the position of an Apostle, one of those chosen by God
to be an eye witness and to carry the message forward.

So does God want me to sell all I have and give to the poor...
Not as of yet...

If everyone was called to the same purpose or function in the body
of Christ we would all be the same and the body would be useless.

In your heart God wants the place of honor for Himself.

For some that means letting go of the hold that money and possessions
have on our lives and to surrender to God and knowing in that moment
that if God asked you to sell everything and to follow His Christ,
it would result in the absolute best outcome for you.

So I do not try to take Scriptures and overlay them on my life as if
those words spoken to the rich man are for me at this time in my life.

I do seek God and ask Him to guide me and prepare me so that if
He does ask me to give it all up, I will be more that willing to because
I will know God most intimately by His guiding me daily so that I will trust
Him implicitly no matter what He asks me to do....

 

[Pal Handy]

Hi all, its been a long time. Nice to be back. Just had my break after exams

Well, this is a tough call on Christians. Having said that we are to love, regardless of the nature of people around us, I remember the saying, Christ came for the sick, not the healthy. So I think it is to love unconditionally, with all our hearts without prejudiced minds. That is the purest form of love one can show they are of Christ.

I remember ministering to a drug addict and a prostitute recently. It was weird, they thought, when I told them they can be assured of salvation, if only they accept salvation which is freely given by the saviour. Well that is a great start to bring them to listen to what I am about to say. Cause these ppl think we look down on them, when we are not supposed to.

I think an act of kindness brings the spark of our flame of love within this sinners hearts. Touch them, and they will touch their soul in Christ.

Thanks for sharing....
What a wonderful way of showing Gods love.

Your thought that love is uncoditional is great...


Love is a comittment that causes the proper responses for each situation.

Marriage is a great example of this type of love or comittment
in its intended form as given by God.

Two people decide that their love and comittment to each other
has birthed the desire to be together and to share life with each other
in an intimacy that goes beyond friendship or any other relationship.

So the two enter into a covenant in which vows are exchanged that
promise that no matter what, the two will remain one and stay with
each other.

The covenant is the binding contract that supercedes concepts of love, feelings,
self fulfillment and all other challenges to the promise that was given in marraige.

So....if all else fails in the relationship, if the self fulfilling love dries up,
if the feelings go away and the two grow apart in direction or paths,
the contract is still binding.

So love is not so much a feeling or a self fulfilling life that recieves
back what is given or a life of perfect agreement and choices that
bind the two together in a common purpose.....

Love is a choice.

We can LOVE others not because it feels right or feeds our needs
or because we are in agreement with a persons life style or
because we think they are deserving of our love or we will receive
anything back for our love investment but we can choose
to love others because God has married Himself to us and we understand
that as God has chosen to bind Himself in the covenant of marriage so
to speak, between the Bride (each believer) and His son, Jesus Christ,
we can from this assurance of unconditional love from God, love others as we have been loved.

Now we know what true love is by example of God through His
marriage of every believer to His Son, Jesus Christ.

We now know that...
love is a choice that we have allowed to become a binding comittment
that causes us to react in a way that is best for those we have chosen to love,
no matter what the circulmstance....

We can choose to love as Christ loved us and forgave us all our
sins, faults and short comings.

Christ did not look upon our wretched uglyness of sin and bondage but
instead He saw in us the seed of His Father who breathed life into every living
soul and He loved us not for who we were but who we could become, if love had its way.

Inside every man or woman no matter how the ravages of sin have perverted
their lives, is the potential for a new creature in Christ and God loves
and pursues everyone of us with a relentless love.

God is looking for those who will love others as He has loved them....

Can we see God in every man?

How can we love God who we have not seen when we cannot
love man made in God's image and likeness?

Love is a commitment...not a feeling but a choice as God has chosen to
love us and has let His action speak out in His willingness to give Himself
to us in a binding contract or covenant sealed with Christ's very lifes blood...

I choose to love because God chose to first loved me....

How that love manifests itself in you or me to others
can only unfold as we ask God for His help and for
opportunity to show the love of God to others.

 

[kingston123]

you do good effort to make it more valuable.

 

[stormdancer0]

Love should have nothing to do with our approving of someones actions before we will love them.

We base love on performance but God bases His love on His choice,
God chooses to love us all, sinner or saint with the same absolute love
that sent Christ to the cross for all sins of all men for all time.

I am not talking about the performance based love that permeates
many of our churches and the hearts of many people but I am talking about Christ's love.

Christ said to love others as I HAVE LOVED YOU.

How does Christ love us?

Completely, absolutely as a choice not base on how good or bad we are
but because of how great and merciful and loving our God is.

You or I cannot love like this unless we ask God to love through us
in the way He wants to love others.

The woman caught in the act of adultry....
Jesus eating in the homes of sinners...
The woman at the well who was living with a man outside of marriage.

Jesus loved these people and reached out to them not because they were
good enough but because He is love...God is love...

This love doesn't enable or codone sin but it destroys sins power over
others by breaking the condemnation that the enemy uses to drive people away
from God and then by offering a pardon for sin through Christ's sacrifice.

God chooses to love us, not enable us...

God's great mercy is meant to lead us to repentance...

The time for God's wrath is not yet but we live in the time of God's
grace and mercy, a time of God's blessings raining down on the just and the
unjust.

Anyway....if we are to love our enemies, why do we fight with our
brothers and sisters in Christ?

I think it is because we have taken our eyes off Christ and we are
looking around at others and sizing them up as compared to ourselves.

I have experienced great love in groups of people and I have seen
people who have come to church off the street, turned away because
they did not meet a dress code....

Just saying, has to be more to it than what I normally see and
it has to start with me and anyone else who sees the need.....

I want more....

I agree, 100%. We must love whether the people are friends or enemies. Even the worst sinner can be saved, but only through the love of Christ. We have to show that love.

Part of that love is explaining God's view on life, and His commands. While people are wrestling with their sinful ways, we have to support and keep them uplifted in prayer, and love them. I hear people all the time fighting about this.

One says we have to teach truth; the other says we have to show them love. Why can't we do both at the same time? We can tell the truth without condemning or rejecting; and we can show God's love without treating a sinful lifestyle as "okay."

Why does it have to be either/or?

 

[Pal Handy]

I agree, 100%. We must love whether the people are friends or enemies. Even the worst sinner can be saved, but only through the love of Christ. We have to show that love.

Part of that love is explaining God's view on life, and His commands. While people are wrestling with their sinful ways, we have to support and keep them uplifted in prayer, and love them. I hear people all the time fighting about this.

One says we have to teach truth; the other says we have to show them love. Why can't we do both at the same time? We can tell the truth without condemning or rejecting; and we can show God's love without treating a sinful lifestyle as "okay."

Why does it have to be either/or?

You are absolutely right...
Give them the truth in love.
The Gospel truth...

WWJD
The woman at the well...
Jesus knew her sin but He did not uncover it....
She confessed it to Him after He asked the questions
that only God can ask.

It seems like some Christians want to take the place of God.

We want to be God's policemen.

We want to beat the sinner over the head with his sin in
the hopes he will see the light.

Only God can bring the need for repentance.

We are given the Good News to preach it, not to beat it over others heads....

Jesus said to preach the gospel.

Jesus never intended that we would become his morality police.

Did Jesus become a morality preacher or do He teach others on the righteousness of God.
Did Jesus so uncover everyones sins that they would run from Him when they would see Him coming?

The Bible says that LOVE covers a multitude of sins.

Jesus was love and He preached the righeousness of God and
let the Holy spirit convict each man of his sins.

We want to find the sinner, expose his sin, beat him with it and
tell him we love him while we tell him he's going to hell.

I don't see that as an example of Christ.

The sinners were not intimidated by Christ.
In fact the sinners feared the religious folks but they flocked to Jesus.
Somehow the sinners knew that they had found a friend in Christ and
not a judge and jury ready to expose them as vile sinners.

Jesus said that He did not come to judge but to save the world.

Jesus told the truth about the love of the Father, heaven and hell
but He did not call out each person's sins and expose them in
an effort to shame them into the kingdom.

Jesus allowed the Holy spirit to do His work of conviction.

If we started by loving one another, the sinner will see the power of
God in the lives of those that bring good news and flock to the churches.

Instead we often times shoot our wounded as we wear masks that
hide our own sins while we pick up rocks to hurl at those that are
as we are, sinners saved by grace.

Are there any perfect men?
All have sinned...right...
Is any one sin greater to God than another?
If we break one of God's laws are we not guilty of them ALL.
We put degrees on our sin and say that our lies are not as bad as
a murderer.

But under the law all are guilty and the only punishment for any and all sin is death.

There is no other punishment that is in degrees to what we think our sins deserve.

What did Jesus say?
Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone...

How many were left?

Preach the gospel.... and part of that gospel is that man is sinful as compared to God
and that all men need forgiveness, even those bringing the message.

Jesus did not renumerate the sins of those
He preached to. He instead renumerated the Holiness of God in
the sermon on the mount and allowed the people to see the Holiness of
God and the great gulf that seperates man from God's Holiness.

I do not remember Jesus preaching a sermon on sin by calling out each
and every man's sin and telling them they were all going to hell.

Jesus warned of judgement and then told them that He was the way, the truth and the life
and that no man could come to the Father but through Him.

Jesus preached the gospel truth that He is the way to His Father and
that all who believd received a pardon and eternal life.

Jesus did preach that if anything prevents you from
receiving that gift we should pluck it out or rid ourselve of
whatever it is...

Jesus was the freind of sinners, He ate with them and He
said that He was not sent for the well but those that are sick,
those that know they are in need and know they need God's help.

What did Jesus tell the disciples?

Go and preach the gospel and if they do not receive you, walk on...

The good seed we have is the gospel message of God's pardon
and eternal life in Christ alone.

We scatter the seed and it is up to God to cause it to grow.

No man can make the seed grow.

One scatters and another waters it but only God can cause the
seed to take root and grow.

I don't want to be a police officer for God that reads
the riot act of a list of sins to each person I meet.

I want to preach the gospel in love, including the possibility of heaven
or hell and let God do the work of convicting each person of there sin.

It's so simple...all are sinners and need a savior,
Jesus Christ is the savior....

Trust me...those that God are dealing with, already know they are sinners who need a savior.

God knows all our secret sins so unless I get an ok from
God to uncover others, I will put my stone down.