FLEXIBLE CHRISTIANITY?? I DON'T THINK SO!!!

[nadroj1985]

By that I mean don't look for excuses to sin, just because that particular sin is enjoyable to you,...

Hey P4J

I was just wondering....I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times in this thread already.....could you give me an example of a sin that you have seen people doing this with? I think it's rather presumptuous to say this is their motive...they might actually believe that the thing is not a sin. Either way, it would be helpful if you could give me an example.

 

[Philip4Jesus]

Hey P4J

I was just wondering....I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times in this thread already.....could you give me an example of a sin that you have seen people doing this with? I think it's rather presumptuous to say this is their motive...they might actually believe that the thing is not a sin. Either way, it would be helpful if you could give me an example.

Yes , nadroj1985 , I can give you an example. From what I have seen/read it seems that masturbation would be an example of this. I say that because I have breifly been to other so called "Christian" forums on the internet and one thing that they all have in common is questions about masturbation. An example of the type of questions that are asked would.. be " Is masturbation really sinful?" . First of all ., what this tells me is that they have a " gut instinct" (if I may use that term) that it really is not right or christianly to be doing but at the same time they ask the question because they want someone to say " No it isn't sinful" so that they can keep on doing it. To reassure them that it is okay.

That is just one example. I could give a couple more but I don't feel that it is necessary. I hope that was of some help to you and answered your question.

 

[William Nunn]

Hey P4J

I was just wondering....I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times in this thread already.....could you give me an example of a sin that you have seen people doing this with? I think it's rather presumptuous to say this is their motive...they might actually believe that the thing is not a sin. Either way, it would be helpful if you could give me an example.

Phillip already elaborated on masturbation, so that's one. Another one is sexual promiscuity. Many people, including some here, try to interpret the Bible as not condemning sexual activity before marriage.

And like Phil said, if you have a "gut instinct" that it's wrong, it's wrong. You shouldn't be asking people about technicalities or translations in ancient Greek to try and make yourself feel better about what you are doing.

 

[Rafael]

Sometimes I think we never change from when we are little children. If a child asks a father for something and the answer is no, it runs to the mother and asks for the same thing - seeking to here the answer they desire to hear. With the scriptures, when people do not like the "no" of scripture, they keep asking and seeking someone to say yes until their ears are scratched and they hear the answer they want.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

I totally see where you are coming from now, P4J, and I completely agree. I think it helps Christians to understand WHY God commands us to do the things that he does. For instance, we are called to love everyone (not just the people we get along with best) because God himself is love and causes the sun to shine on both the evil and the good. We are called to save ourselves for marriage because children (the natural result of sexual activity) are happiest when they have two parents to care for them and sex itself creates an emotional and physical bond between two people ("and the two shall become one flesh") that should not be severed (as most of us have seen in either our own lives or in others' lives, one night stands are very emotionally damaging). We are called not to lust because getting involved in worldly things (like pornography--which can easily lead one down the path of sexual addiction) takes our eyes off of God's mission for our lives and off of God's command to treat each other (bodies included) with love and respect (not objects), and, as Christ says, lusting is itself a sexual act with that person. As Christians, we are commanded by Christ to follow in his example and lead Christ-like lives (or we at least aim for that). I think it helps us as Christians guiding each other not to say "this is a sin because God said so;" although this should be enough, as most of us have found out with spirited children, "because mommy says so" is not the best way to correct misbehavior, but once a child understands that the action is against his/her own good, the child--hopefully--will choose to seek good on his/her own account and try to reform. Not every sin has an intellectual reason that we can understand, but through applying the principles and reasoning that God sets forth in other parts of the Bible, we can better understand that these are sins, too. For example, homosexuality is wrong because God created Adam and Eve to start the first family, not Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve. God, thus, feels that it is in humanity's best interest to keep marriage between only males and females. God started the world in this way, and although we cannot know the precise reason God created the first marriage in this way, we as Christians must recognize that we need to follow God's example. Maybe I'm blinded by my own shortcomings, but I don't understand how someone could be a Christian and think otherwise on these issues. I do think it is important, though, for all of us Christians to understand that we, of course, still sin every day, but the key is to become aware of our sin and earnestly seek to do good. Homosexuality is on par with gossiping (I think that all sins are equal before God)--and many Christians are unaware of the gossip coming out of their own mouths about others. Pornography and sexual addictions can be difficult for even strong Christians to overcome, but part of being a Christian is identifying those parts of your life that need to be made better and trying to act upon this no matter how many times you stumble. Because someone continues to do particular sins does not mean that they do not think they are doing wrong--perhaps they are just stumbling on the path of trying to do better. Only God can judge their hearts. If someone, however, willingly acts against the spirit of God's commands set forth in the Bible, then they, in my opinion, are doing wrong, but I have no place to judge. Like I said, only God really knows their hearts. Issues like sexual immorality, murder, lying, cheating, envy, judgment, theft, hate, idolatry--are the big sins in the 10 commandments and Christ's teachings, and are essential, in my opinion, to guard against within a Christian lifestyle. These are the things I think should be inflexible for any Christian. These are also things upon which we should be inflexible with other Christians, but in our dealings with non-Christians we would do better to show compassion and love before rebuking them. Personally, I'd really like to see someone justify sexual immorality with Scripture because I cannot imagine how (or why) anyone would do that.

The tricky issues for me come in on "gray" moral areas like: Is it immoral for a woman to wear pants (the clothes of a man)? Can women cut their hair? Can women pray without covering their heads? Can women become ministers? Can women wear makeup and jewelry? (Okay, I'm a woman, so these are the issues that spring into my mind first, but I know there are others.) My Bible is not handy at the moment, but I think that most of these injunctions are in Paul's epistles to the early churches--not commands or examples of God/Christ himself. Its issues like these that I feel historical context is necessary (I'm not trying to find a "loophole" to justify my blue-jean wearing self, but earnestly seeking God's will). I do think that there is room for flexibility here since these are not (to my knowledge--do correct me if I am wrong) direct commands of God or precedents established by him. Whether we baptize by adult immersion or sprinkle infants, or take communion with wine or grape juice, I personally don't think it is that important to God or that someone will not be allowed into heaven for doing one of these things incorrectly (if there is a correct way to begin with). We are all saved by God's grace and through our faith in Jesus Christ as our savior, and because we know and love him, we seek to live lives that will show others' Christ love and forgiveness.

In conclusion, (bless you if you read this far!) I think there are certain things upon which a Christian should be inflexible, and some issues in which flexibility is not against God's will. I don't think Christianity is always so black and white, and I pray for forgiveness if I am wrong in thinking that. I am just doing my best without hope of ever being perfect.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Also, did it bother anyone else that the author of the article said that going to church on Sunday is sinful??

 

[nadroj1985]

Also, did it bother anyone else that the author of the article said that going to church on Sunday is sinful??

Yeah I thought so too. It didn't bother me necessarily, I just thought it was quite silly.

 

[Philip4Jesus]

Once again , I am posting in my own thread, not with any comments , but just to hopefully bring more attention to it. This is something that I feel is important and I want to share it with others.

 

[Hook]

Hiya P4J! I haven't followed the link yet but wanted to respond to your post.

I agree wholeheartedly. Seems there are many posters here at CF who take what is God's Word and twist and manipulate to make their own sins seem acceptable. It's their "interpretation". I feel that I am not worthy to go around and "interpret" God's Word. I should be humble and obedient and take it for what it says. I SHOULD CHANGE ME TO SUIT HIS WORD, NOT CHANGE HIS WORD TO SUIT ME! People like to take a law from the bible and start referencing it to this book, then that book, then so-and-so's commentary then an article they've read in T.V. Guide and come up with "Its ok if I do this sin, God doesn't mind. There is the proof!! " In actuality, all they have to do is read a simple easy-to-understand line or verse thats usually straight forward and take it for what it says! Why risk swaying from His word? I suppose the lure of this sinful world is very strong, indeed!

Remember, you may be able to fool your friend. You may be able to even fool yourself. But you won't fool God.

Evil proclaimed as good and good proclaimed as evil - I so agree with you Philip & One Son. I know teens today who call themselves Christians yet have decided the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, but rather a book written by men containing errors due to re-writing, revising and interpretation into many languages. They are deceiving themselves to suit their own sinful desires. It's good to see folks who still stand for Biblical truth.

 

[Christi]

When we let Christ decide who is a follower of Christ, how to be a follower of Christ, and follow where He leads us........things become so simple. Quite simply, He wants our whole hearts. He wants us madly in love with Him. And when we are, it's not about following rules, or making checklists, or looking at our brother's and sister's to see if they are, as well. When we are madly in love with Him, nothing matters to us BUT pleasing Him. It's our hearts He's after. A heart for Jesus almost always lines up with His wishes for us. Our lives become pleasing to Him, when there is less of us and more of Him. We all stumble, and we all try, and in the end none of us present ourselves holy to Him, no matter how far we've come. But when we are covered in the blood of Jesus, and God looks at us, he'll see Jesus, pure and holy in us. When you are in love with Someone, you try to do everything you can to not hurt them and to make them smile. It's really simple.

 

[flyfishing]

When we let Christ decide who is a follower of Christ, how to be a follower of Christ, and follow where He leads us........things become so simple. Quite simply, He wants our whole hearts. He wants us madly in love with Him. And when we are, it's not about following rules, or making checklists, or looking at our brother's and sister's to see if they are, as well. When we are madly in love with Him, nothing matters to us BUT pleasing Him. It's our hearts He's after. A heart for Jesus almost always lines up with His wishes for us. Our lives become pleasing to Him, when there is less of us and more of Him. We all stumble, and we all try, and in the end none of us present ourselves holy to Him, no matter how far we've come. But when we are covered in the blood of Jesus, and God looks at us, he'll see Jesus, pure and holy in us. When you are in love with Someone, you try to do everything you can to not hurt them and to make them smile. It's really simple.

AMEN!!!!