Flesh / Mind (Eph. 2:1-3)

[TrueColors]

Ephesians 2~

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

I'd like to focus on verse 3 in this thread. Specifically, what is being said in regard to 'lusts of the mind'. It seems to be seperate from 'lusts of the flesh'.

I haven't formed a view, as of yet... I'd like input. If you have biblical references, that's great.

Thanks!

 

[KJVisTruth]

Its about imagination. Theres a bunch of verses about this, Gen. 6:5 for starters...

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

For a sinner, the carnal mind is natural, cuz of whats in his heart. That passage describes the sinner's miserable condition.

 

[TrueColors]

Thank you KJV,

I heard a pastor recently tell one of his very saved members (at the altar) they needed to be careful of 'lusts of the mind'. I know this person... and really have to wonder how this could play out in a believer's life.

 

[KJVisTruth]

I think he probably means not to entertain evil thoughts, even though their hearts might not be into it, not to let imaginations "run away" cuz then it would be "fulfilling the lusts of the mind." If one entertains evil thoughts and runs with something in his mind, I think it makes it much more likely and easier to justify and rationalize. Once it reaches that point, it could become a desire of the heart (the flesh) or at least, a real temptation.

Thats just my thoughts and I am no pastor. lol

Interesting thread, btw! =)

 

[TrueColors]

If one entertains evil thoughts and runs with something in his mind, I think it makes it much more likely and easier to justify and rationalize. Once it reaches that point, it could become a desire of the heart (the flesh) or at least, a real temptation.

Whole heartedly agree.

I wonder if simply 'dying' to our own hopes and aspirations comes into play here. Especially if they are strong, and lead us in a way that God may not be directing. I'm looking for the balance with this thought, in relation to the fact that God 'gives us the desires of our hearts'.

Thats just my thoughts and I am no pastor. lol

~ Maybe a few pastor's will join in here...

 

[bigdAddyweAve423]

I think he probably means not to entertain evil thoughts, even though their hearts might not be into it, not to let imaginations "run away" cuz then it would be "fulfilling the lusts of the mind." If one entertains evil thoughts and runs with something in his mind, I think it makes it much more likely and easier to justify and rationalize. Once it reaches that point, it could become a desire of the heart (the flesh) or at least, a real temptation.

Thats just my thoughts and I am no pastor. lol

Interesting thread, btw! =)

If I may; It seems that the lusts of the mind has a direct affect on the lusts of the flesh/heart. Like you said above, when you let thoughts run rapid & allow them to gain control. Then those thoughts become desires & desires run you into temptations.

It may be that the lust of the mind leads to the lust of the flesh/heart. That is why we need to take every thought captive & make it obedient to Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5).

 

[KJVisTruth]

Oh yes. Even Jesus Himself said it, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." Mat. 22:37

=)

 

[Beasley]

Paul makes further reference to it in Eph 4 and there are a couple of things about it that are highly interesting.

20But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus,
22that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.
26BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
27and do not give the devil an opportunity.

In between the believer taking off the old self and putting on the new is the renovation of the mind or where we do our thinking.

Notice that it says the old self, the sin nature is being corrupted. In the Greek this is a present passive. That means that it is receiving the action of being corrupted. Sometimes a present tense is just an event occuring in the present, sometimes it carries the connotation of repeated action but many times, as with salvation it views an ongoing condition. So our sin natures are constantly being corrupted by the lusts of deceit.

In order to quit living in the flesh and learn to live in the new man a believer has to have his thinking changed. Our thinking is changed by the Word. The more we learn under the filling of the Spirit, the more we are able to live in who we are in Christ.

Notice also, he says 'lay aside falsehood' and 'be angry and do not sin. He is talking to believers. Unbelievers will live in their old self. The believer has the opportunity to lay it aside. But, a believer who does not submit to having his thinking changed is going to live in the old man.

 

[bigdAddyweAve423]

Paul makes further reference to it in Eph 4 and there are a couple of things about it that are highly interesting.

20But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus,
22that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.
26BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
27and do not give the devil an opportunity.

In between the believer taking off the old self and putting on the new is the renovation of the mind or where we do our thinking.

Notice that it says the old self, the sin nature is being corrupted. In the Greek this is a present passive. That means that it is receiving the action of being corrupted. Sometimes a present tense is just an event occuring in the present, sometimes it carries the connotation of repeated action but many times, as with salvation it views an ongoing condition. So our sin natures are constantly being corrupted by the lusts of deceit.

In order to quit living in the flesh and learn to live in the new man a believer has to have his thinking changed. Our thinking is changed by the Word. The more we learn under the filling of the Spirit, the more we are able to live in who we are in Christ.

Notice also, he says 'lay aside falsehood' and 'be angry and do not sin. He is talking to believers. Unbelievers will live in their old self. The believer has the opportunity to lay it aside. But, a believer who does not submit to having his thinking changed is going to live in the old man.

I totally agree with you!!

Everything that happends in our lives, starts in our minds. That is the only way the devil has any means of attacking us; is through our minds.

Living in the Flesh is a mind set & Living in the Spirit is a mind set. It all starts in our minds.

 

[Beasley]

BigDaddy

reminds me of 2 Cor 5, taking every thought captive. Couple that with Eph 6, our battle is not against flesh and blood but the powers and principalities of the air. We are hip deep in a muddy battlefield.

When a person first becomes a believer, their thinking is mostly made up of what they have learned in the world and that thinking has to be changed, conformed to the mind of Christ. As they learn the Word it changes them. We don't change ourselves by ourselves. That is human power and human power does not work.

One fellow I know compared the thinking we learn in the world to a bunch of counselors sitting around a conference table giving advice. As the Word develops Christs thinking in you, there is a new voice at the table. Its learning to pay attention to it and dismiss the other that is important.

 

[bigdAddyweAve423]

BigDaddy

reminds me of 2 Cor 5, taking every thought captive. Couple that with Eph 6, our battle is not against flesh and blood but the powers and principalities of the air. We are hip deep in a muddy battlefield.

When a person first becomes a believer, their thinking is mostly made up of what they have learned in the world and that thinking has to be changed, conformed to the mind of Christ. As they learn the Word it changes them. We don't change ourselves by ourselves. That is human power and human power does not work.

One fellow I know compared the thinking we learn in the world to a bunch of counselors sitting around a conference table giving advice. As the Word develops Christs thinking in you, there is a new voice at the table. Its learning to pay attention to it and dismiss the other that is important.

Again, I totally agree!!!!

That is a great way of putting it as well. It comes down to dicernign what is of the Lord & what is a lie of the enemy.

God Bless you Beasley!!

 

[jsimms615]

I'd like to focus on verse 3 in this thread. Specifically, what is being said in regard to 'lusts of the mind'. It seems to be seperate from 'lusts of the flesh'.

I haven't formed a view, as of yet... I'd like input. If you have biblical references, that's great.

Thanks!

I would think that lusts of the flesh are physical actions and lusts of the mind have to do with thoughts. Perhaps related to 1 John 2:15.