Flawed Logic of Gay Christians

Zecryphon · Jul 26, 2008

Caylin said:
We are in a committed and consensual relationship. None of us sleep around indiscriminately. Your attempts to compare poly to rape are laughable indeed.

I knew you'd misunderstand that comment. The only thing laughabe here is you and your definition of a committed relationship. Anyone who is in a committed relationship is in a relationship with one other person, not two or more. Mycomment about rape is not directed at you, it's a comment about the decline of morality in society as a whole. People are trying to justify the sin of same-sex sex any way they can. They think God approves of such unions because they claim they are committed and consensual. That's not God's standard for proper sexual relations. So given enough time, I believe the people who commit rapes will say that rape isn't a violent act that's about control, dominance and violation of another human being. That will be "old fashioned" thinking about rape. No the new definition will be, it's just aggressive sex.

Caylin · Jul 26, 2008

*Shrug* Your bible has many examples of people in poly relationships. As far as I'm concerned, morality is determined by if an action harms someone else or not. To convince me anything I'm doing is wrong, you will have to prove I'm harming people.

OllieFranz · Jul 26, 2008

But Caylin, all the Biblical poly relationships are one man-many women, with the women faithful only to the man. (Except for Bilhah, who also slept with Reuben, her husband's son). To be Biblical, you need to find a man and all three of you must be faithful to him.

On the other hand, whatever you do with your two partners is not sex, Biblically. So if you don't find a man to be faithful to, you are still OK. You are just three girls who like "rubbing" one another's bodies. Absolutely nothing wrong with that according to the ancient Jewish worldview.

Caylin · Jul 26, 2008

Its like massage therapy, really.

EnemyPartyII · Jul 26, 2008

Anyone who is in a committed relationship is in a relationship with one other person, not two or more.

So Solomon was not in a committed relationship then?

EnemyPartyII · Jul 26, 2008

Caylin said:
*Shrug* Your bible has many examples of people in poly relationships. As far as I'm concerned, morality is determined by if an action harms someone else or not. To convince me anything I'm doing is wrong, you will have to prove I'm harming people.

QFT, which is where sermon of the mount comes in... the new comandment, simply put, breaks down to "only sin is something that harms others"

MercyBurst · Jul 26, 2008

RegularGuy said:
If God so despises homosexuality, why does he make some people gay?

Because some gays choose to have their gay sex, and God turns them over to their own proclivity, removing their own conscience to know right from wrong any longer -- giving them up to their own devices, and fashioning them to destruction, even as the apostle Paul says:

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.

When they stand before God on Judgment Day, God won't be the one to blame. Repent before it's too late.

catlover · Jul 26, 2008

MercyBurst said:
xlanna,

The girl claims more than one gay sex partner and swears that isn't promiscuous.

so while we are throwing stones here are a few right back at you...You claim homosexuality is some horrid sin yet the content of your posts are infantile and fixated on gay sex...

catlover · Jul 26, 2008

Zecryphon said:
Why is this person not allowed to freely express how she's feeling? You chastize her for not posting like an adult when she's done nothing wrong. I don't see you posting like an adult. I see you hearing a statement you don't like and pikcing on someone for it. Yeah, that's real adult behavior there.

oh sick gross...is that expressing anything but immaturity?

catlover · Jul 26, 2008

WarriorAngel said:
The full Bible is for warning and instruction.

To which it says God gave them up to reprobate sense. IE...to indulge in the sins markedly mentioned means that God removed His grace from them.
And they could no longer discern right from wrong because He let them do as they choose. [to give them up]

Therein lies the obstacle, and therein lies the decision.
For those who would act out the sins listed by Paul with full knowledge of those sins - should so as the Apostles exhorted all of us to do...To repent of our sins.... and then seek forgiveness.

Repentence and forgiveness brings us back into the graces of God Who helps us avoid all temptations whether they be of this nature or of the many others.

I am certain you are familiar with Romans 1 and Corinthians.
So I dont need to go through them again. However, i think ppl misunderstand or overlook the concept of God giving them up to reprobate sense.

Let's delve more closely to the word reprobate. Here is the actual definition in the dictionary.

rep·ro·bate

[rep-ruh-beyt]noun, adjective, verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing.
–noun 1.a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate.
2.a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation. –adjective
3.morally depraved; unprincipled; bad.
4.rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation. –verb (used with object)
5.to disapprove, condemn, or censure.
6.(of God) to reject (a person), as for sin; exclude from the number of the elect or from salvation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reprobate

I am not too concerned about God sending me to hell because of my sex life...according to your church teachings a person is in trouble for using artificial birth control or having sex that can't result in procreation...

AmericanCatholic · Jul 26, 2008

catlover said:
I am not too concerned about God sending me to hell because of my sex life...according to your church teachings a person is in trouble for using artificial birth control or having sex that can't result in procreation...

Why are you not concerned? Does God measure all our actions except those done in the privacy of the bedroom?

The Church's positions on sexual matters are not arbitrary. It's view on birth control, pre-marital sex, and homosexuality are inherently linked. Through a combination of Scripture, Tradition, natural law, and reason, the Church has concluded that sexuality outside of marriage is wrong -- whether it's heterosexuality, homosexuality, masturbation, or anything else. If it is to be accepted that one is immoral, it has to be necessarily accepted that the others are immoral. It is not a condemnation of those who claim to be homosexuals, otherwise everyone else would have to be likewise condemned. Rather, it's a recognition that we are called to holiness, and that each of us have our own obstacles to that end.

WarriorAngel · Jul 26, 2008

Caylin said:
*Shrug* Your bible has many examples of people in poly relationships. As far as I'm concerned, morality is determined by if an action harms someone else or not. To convince me anything I'm doing is wrong, you will have to prove I'm harming people.

You are hurting the most important person ~ yourself. And here is how.

1 Corinthians 6
16 Or know you not, that he who is joined to a harlot, is made one body? For they shall be, saith he, two in one flesh. 17 But he who is joined to the Lord, is one spirit. 18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth, is without the body; but he that committeth fornication, sinneth against his own body. 19 Or know you not, that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own?

catlover said:
I am not too concerned about God sending me to hell because of my sex life...according to your church teachings a person is in trouble for using artificial birth control or having sex that can't result in procreation...

In some respects I envy your invincible ignorance - in other respects i do not.

As it is, i am a bigger sinner than you. For i truly know better and i am held to a greater judgement.

But all the same, I posted scriptures i think you should be given awareness of.
Since it mentions 'fornication' as an act against the body.
Sex is very important. As it is in keeping oneself for marriage of the opposite sex to procreate. Or it should be avoided altogether.

If the affliction or cross you carry stems from same sex attraction, your reward is greater in Heaven for overcoming the desires.

catlover · Jul 26, 2008

AmericanCatholic said:
Why are you not concerned? Does God measure all our actions except those done in the privacy of the bedroom?

The Church's positions on sexual matters are not arbitrary. It's view on birth control, pre-marital sex, and homosexuality are inherently linked. Through a combination of Scripture, Tradition, natural law, and reason, the Church has concluded that sexuality outside of marriage is wrong -- whether it's heterosexuality, homosexuality, masturbation, or anything else. If it is to be accepted that one is immoral, it has to be necessarily accepted that the others are immoral. It is not a condemnation of those who claim to be homosexuals, otherwise everyone else would have to be likewise condemned. Rather, it's a recognition that we are called to holiness, and that each of us have our own obstacles to that end.

I don't care what a male dominated institution teaches-it doesn't pertain to me...

KCKID · Jul 26, 2008

WarriorAngel said:
You are hurting the most important person ~ yourself. And here is how.

1 Corinthians 6
16 Or know you not, that he who is joined to a harlot, is made one body? For they shall be, saith he, two in one flesh. 17 But he who is joined to the Lord, is one spirit. 18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth, is without the body; but he that committeth fornication, sinneth against his own body. 19 Or know you not, that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own?

In some respects I envy your invincible ignorance - in other respects i do not.

As it is, i am a bigger sinner than you. For i truly know better and i am held to a greater judgement.

But all the same, I posted scriptures i think you should be given awareness of.
Since it mentions 'fornication' as an act against the body.
Sex is very important. As it is in keeping oneself for marriage of the opposite sex to procreate. Or it should be avoided altogether.

If the affliction or cross you carry stems from same sex attraction, your reward is greater in Heaven for overcoming the desires.

While I may not agree with you in total, WarriorAngel, I do appreciate the intent and the humbling of yourself in your post.

One thing I'm curious about, however, was this part:

Sex is very important. As it is in keeping oneself for marriage of the opposite sex to procreate. Or it should be avoided altogether.

Very interesting. I'm almost prompted to start a thread based on this statement because it rather hints at 'no sex for recreational purposes'.

KCKID · Jul 26, 2008

catlover said:
I don't care what a male dominated institution teaches-it doesn't pertain to me...

Now, now ...your militance does not become you. Tsk, tsk. Females were designed primarily by God to stay barefoot and pregnant and to cater to the every whim of the male-dominated household. YOUR task in life is to pump out baby after baby and it's essential that we get back to the Bible basics on this issue!

Are you even a Christian, catlover? If not your point of view isn't worth considering anyway because you're lost, my friend.

(sarcasm intended)

By the way, since I'm talking to you on a personal level, I'm a cat lover - well, actually I'm an animal lover generally. One of my best friends at the moment is my cat, Scamp. I love him with all my heart.

Zecryphon · Jul 27, 2008

catlover said:
oh sick gross...is that expressing anything but immaturity?

I saw her post and she didn't say 'oh sick gross', that's a lie by you. She said she was feeling sick. I'm actually surprised you didn't accuse her of spreading "fundie Nazi propaganda" like you usually do. The one behaving immaturely here is you, no one else. You don't like her comments so you not only lie about what she said you have to attack her personally and call her immature. She was being honest, something you have yet to do in this thread. Tell me Catlover, are you now exhibiting the Christian behavior you desperately seek in others? You want others to tell the truth, yet here you've blatantly lied. That's a nice double-standard you have there.

morningstar2651 · Jul 27, 2008

DMagoh said:
This thread concerns the flawed logic of persons justifying homosexual behavior. I have seen many reasons posted as to why people think homosexual behavior is okay. However, if these reasons are true, then the logic should follow through to all things. Here are some popular reasons I have seen posted, and why you cannot say homosexual behavior is okay based on these logical reasons.

Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.

Flawed Logic: Jesus also never mentioned incest, polygamy, pedophilia, necrophilia.... are those okay too?

Why would a loving God hate love?

Flawed Logic: If I love my sister and she turns me on sexually, is it okay to have sex with her?

Animals do it.

Flawed Logic: Animals also eat their young and some female animals kill their male counterparts after mating. Should we do this too? My dog positions himself on my leg periodically is he thinking sex with humans is okay, and if so, does that mean humans and animals can have sex since animals do it?

Its genetic; it would unnatural for me to be heterosexual.

Flawed Logic: Men turned on by animals and children feel the same way it would be unnatural for them to have sex with humans or adults.

You should not deny happiness to someone.

Flawed Logic: What if children and animals make me happy?

Monogamous same-sex relationships are okay; its just being promiscuous thats a sin.

Flawed Logic: So if I JUST have sex with my sister, and only my sister, is that okay?

In no way am I condoning any behaviors mentioned in this thread, just merely pointing out the flawed logic. If your reason for thinking homosexual behavior is okay does not follow through to all other activities, then it is flawed logic.

What does the Bible say about pedophilia, necrophilia, and incest?

AmericanCatholic · Jul 27, 2008

catlover said:
I don't care what a male dominated institution teaches-it doesn't pertain to me...

Willful ignorance is not a counter-argument. If you think the Church's positions are wrong, you are welcome to debate them. That's the purpose of this forum. I summarized the Church's stance on sexuality in general -- are you free from the cultural norm of respectful debate because you perceive yourself discriminated? Are you expecting others to respect your views while you have a free hand in dismissing theirs? There is a sizable debate within the Church on this very issue. But I suppose whims are more easily accepted than arguments?

catlover · Jul 27, 2008

AmericanCatholic said:
Willful ignorance is not a counter-argument. If you think the Church's positions are wrong, you are welcome to debate them. That's the purpose of this forum. I summarized the Church's stance on sexuality in general -- are you free from the cultural norm of respectful debate because you perceive yourself discriminated? Are you expecting others to respect your views while you have a free hand in dismissing theirs? There is a sizable debate within the Church on this very issue. But I suppose whims are more easily accepted than arguments?

There is nothing to debate celibate men who wrote pages and pages about how people are to have sex is pretty ironic...

catlover · Jul 27, 2008

KCKID said:
Now, now ...your militance does not become you. Tsk, tsk. Females were designed primarily by God to stay barefoot and pregnant and to cater to the every whim of the male-dominated household. YOUR task in life is to pump out baby after baby and it's essential that we get back to the Bible basics on this issue!

Are you even a Christian, catlover? If not your point of view isn't worth considering anyway because you're lost, my friend.

(sarcasm intended)

By the way, since I'm talking to you on a personal level, I'm a cat lover - well, actually I'm an animal lover generally. One of my best friends at the moment is my cat, Scamp. I love him with all my heart.

...so I am lost, here KCKID...yes...some of my pets make better company than people so I can understand why Scamp is one of your best friends.

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