FLAT or ROUND Earth?

d taylor said:

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Science/scientist should humble themselves and acknowledge where their abilities come from.

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A lot of hard work and study.

Hans Blaster said:

A lot of hard work and study.

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Regardless of hard work and study of you had not been gifted with the ability to grow and learn in the science field by God. All the hard work and study would not bring about the same results.


If it was just hard work and study you could have mastered the piano or been an all proathlete, etc..

I've known several people who swear that the earth is flat and try to make a Biblical argument for that belief. Their attempts to interject the Bible are invariably nonsensical. These are usually the same people who will swear that the moon landing was staged and believe in other conspiricy theories.

These beliefs go back to the ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamian tribes who believed that the Earth was a flat disc floating in an ocean. The ancient Israelites also imagined the Earth to be a disc floating on water with an arched firmament above it that separated the Earth from the heavens. The ancient Norse and Germanic peoples believed in a flat-Earth cosmography with the Earth surrounded by an ocean.These beliefs were by and large abandoned beginning with Aristotle and were held by only a few by the time of Christ.

Until the mid-fourth century AD, virtually all Christian authors held that the Earth was round and was the center of the Universe. In the 4th Century it was St. Augustine who began the controversy in the Christian church when he called the spherical Earth theory a fable. His Biblical reasoning was, as he wrote "For Scripture, which proves the truth of its historical statements by the accomplishment of its prophecies, gives no false information; and it is too absurd to say, that some men might have taken ship and traversed the whole wide ocean, and crossed from this side of the world to the other, and that thus even the inhabitants of that distant region are descended from that one first man." While it always remained a minority view, from the mid-fourth to the seventh centuries AD, the flat earth view experienced a revival, with various church leaders calling the spherical Earth theory a sinful doctrine derived by the Greeks during a time when they were pagans.

In the modern era the belief in a flat Earth was reestablished in 1849 when the English author, Samuel Rowbotham wrote in support of it in his pamphlet, "Zetetic Astronomy" In 1956, Samuel Shenton founded what's become known as "The Flat Earth Society". For some reason this belief has started to grow in popularity again, partially due to the Internet and all the false information found there. I know of no established Church who holds the belief as part of their dogma.

Godsunworthyservant said:

Until the mid-fourth century AD, virtually all Christian authors held that the Earth was round and was the center of the Universe. In the 4th Century it was St. Augustine who began the controversy in the Christian church when he called the spherical Earth theory a fable. His Biblical reasoning was, as he wrote "For Scripture, which proves the truth of its historical statements by the accomplishment of its prophecies, gives no false information; and it is too absurd to say, that some men might have taken ship and traversed the whole wide ocean, and crossed from this side of the world to the other, and that thus even the inhabitants of that distant region are descended from that one first man."

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Actually, Augustine wasn't calling a spherical Earth a fable with that remark. In context, what he was declaring to be a fable was "antipodes", the idea of there being people living on the opposite side of the Earth. Here is the fuller context of his remarks, found in City of God Book 16 Chapter 9:

But as to the fable that there are Antipodes, that is to say, men on the opposite side of the earth, where the sun rises when it sets to us, men who walk with their feet opposite ours, that is on no ground credible. And, indeed, it is not affirmed that this has been learned by historical knowledge, but by scientific conjecture, on the ground that the earth is suspended within the concavity of the sky, and that it has as much room on the one side of it as on the other: hence they say that the part which is beneath must also be inhabited. But they do not remark that, although it be supposed or scientifically demonstrated that the world is of a round and spherical form, yet it does not follow that the other side of the earth is bare of water; nor even, though it be bare, does it immediately follow that it is peopled. For Scripture, which proves the truth of its historical statements by the accomplishment of its prophecies, gives no false information; and it is too absurd to say, that some men might have taken ship and traversed the whole wide ocean, and crossed from this side of the world to the other, and that thus even the inhabitants of that distant region are descended from that one first man. Wherefore let us seek if we can find the city of God that sojourns on earth among those human races who are catalogued as having been divided into seventy-two nations and as many languages. For it continued down to the deluge and the ark, and is proved to have existed still among the sons of Noah by their blessings, and chiefly in the eldest son Shem; for Japheth received this blessing, that he should dwell in the tents of Shem.

Augustine was critical of the idea of antipodes, because (1) no one had actual evidence of their existence, making it nothing more than speculation, and (2) he finds it implausible on a scriptural basis; since all men are descended from Adam, they would have had to venture across the whole wide ocean by boat to reach that area, an idea he rejects as absurd.

So Augustine clearly rejects the idea of men living on the other side of the world, but does not express a clear position on the question of the shape of the world. Even if he did think the world was flat (there is debate on what Augustine's view was), he does not declare a round Earth to be a fable, just the idea of men living on the other side of it.

d taylor said:

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Regardless of hard work and study of you had not been gifted with the ability to grow and learn in the science field by God. All the hard work and study would not bring about the same results.


If it was just hard work and study you could have mastered the piano or been an all proathlete, etc..

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God had nothing to do with it. Something something... crossroads... something.

d taylor said:

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Science the great deceptive fruit of this age.

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And you shall know them by their fruits.

Just because the sun, moon and the stars traverse the sky, it doesn't mean that the earth does.
The earth is fixed & motionless just as God created it.

Apple Sky said:

Just because the sun, moon and the stars traverse the sky, it doesn't mean that the earth does.
The earth is fixed & motionless just as God created it.

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Yeah, yeah, until a flat earther tries to explain gravity with the idea that the flat Earth is constantly accelerating upward at 9.8 m/s², creating the sensation of gravity.

Totally incoherent, random ideas.

d taylor said:

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Science the great deceptive fruit of this age.

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So why aren't you living in a cave then?

d taylor said:

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Everything thing comes from God, science gives us nothing but deceptions.

God has given man the ability to invent, that is not of mans on accord.
God began with Adam and taught Adam and others, with out God's help and guidance man would be no where.

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d taylor said:

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Science has tried to steal the credit from God especially in this age of satan. But science along with satan will be brought down especially the deceptive areas of science.

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d taylor said:

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Science/scientist should humble themselves and acknowledge where their abilities come from.

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This astounding level of generalization shows that you don't actually care about the topic in the slightest and just want to protect your personal interpretation of the Bible. You don't know the hearts of any scientist in the world nor their minds, and the Bible specficially says not to do that, in James 4:11 - 12 -
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

And Matthew 5:22 -
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Apple Sky said:

And you shall know them by their fruits.

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And we know you by yours

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

So why aren't you living in a cave then?

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There are no caves where i live.

d taylor said:

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There are no caves where i live.

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They are actually surprisingly rare. None near where I live either, unless I travel a few miles by train then walk a good few miles.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

This astounding level of generalization shows that you don't actually care about the topic in the slightest and just want to protect your personal interpretation of the Bible. You don't know the hearts of any scientist in the world nor their minds, and the Bible specficially says not to do that, in James 4:11 - 12 -
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

And Matthew 5:22 -
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



And we know you by yours

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No you just think because of science, The Bible should not be read and believed the way i believe The Bible.

It is simple God states He created two great lights, so i believe God created two great lights. Not a great light and a great light reflector.

So i am 100% confident the Bible should be believed as given and understood the same way. The people who originally were told or read the accounts given Genesis 1, 2, 6, 11, Joshua 10:12-15, Isaiah 38 , Job, etc...

d taylor said:

No you just think because of science, The Bible should not be read and believed the way i believe The Bible.

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No, I know so because God's creation and the actual study of God's creation shows an entirely different story than that in a literal accounting of the Bible.

d taylor said:

It is simple God states He created two great lights, so i believe God created two great lights. Not a great light and a great light reflector.

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There is no way I can say anything against that without breaking forum rules. But that is an entirely sad lack of logic.

d taylor said:

So i am 100% confident the Bible should be believed as given and understood the same way. The people who originally were told or read the accounts given Genesis 1, 2, 6, 11, Joshua 10:12-15, Isaiah 38 , Job, etc...

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But then that leaves the same problem I have with AV1611VET's interpretation of the Bible, in that you set out God to be deceptive. Because either the Bible is correct and everything about Earth's history is a lie, or the opposite.
Now I know that the Bible does not have lies in it, and that God also cannot lie, and neither does a study of the Earth, which leads me to conclude that any 100% accurate literal interpretation of the Bible as fact is nothing but BUNK.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

They are actually surprisingly rare. None near where I live either, unless I travel a few miles by train then walk a good few miles.

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I am in the Mississippi delta, flat as a pancake.

JSRG said:

Actually, Augustine wasn't calling a spherical Earth a fable with that remark. In context, what he was declaring to be a fable was "antipodes", the idea of there being people living on the opposite side of the Earth.

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Yes, I didn't state that he actually believed in a flat earth. I stated that his writings reignited the controversy. That is because at the time the two beliefs were intertwined and when Augustine wrote about "antipodes", many took it to mean that since there was no habitable other side of the world, then it stood to reason that he was rejecting the spherical Earth theory as well. (BTW, my understanding his comments on "antipodes" is not simply that there were people on the other side of the Earth, but that there is actually a habitable "other side of the world" for people to live in, thus the controversy. He actually never mentions specifically whether the Earth is flat or spherical. I didn't go into great detail or even mention the word "antipodes". If you'll notice I started the quote right after where he mentions "antipodes", mainly so as not to get off topic and add yet another layer of confusion. I was simply making note that because of the reaction from some about his writings, the controversy about a flat Earth gained a resurgence that lasted for several centuries.

I find it constantly bewildering in the various ways some here in this forum deny what God's own Creation, as Created by God is showing us about itSelf. I don't believe that God or HIs Creation is deceptive, but that sure seems to be the trajectory of some.

Apple Sky said:

Just because the sun, moon and the stars traverse the sky, it doesn't mean that the earth does.
The earth is fixed & motionless just as God created it.

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And yet here it is, a pale blue dot, floating in space as it orbits the sun.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

This astounding level of generalization shows that you don't actually care about the topic in the slightest and just want to protect your personal interpretation of the Bible. You don't know the hearts of any scientist in the world nor their minds, and the Bible specficially says not to do that, in James 4:11 - 12 -
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

And Matthew 5:22 -
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



And we know you by yours

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I am not condemning any scientist to hell. i just state what they say does not match up with what is written in The Bible.

Matthew 5;22 is not addressing this age. This will be in effect during the 1000 year rule of Jesus. Jesus will rule the entire earth with the law of God and this rule will be a rule of iron.

d taylor said:

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I am not condemning any scientist to hell. i just state what they say does not match up with what is written in The Bible.

Matthew 5;22 is not addressing this age. This will be in effect during the 1000 year rule of Jesus. Jesus will rule the entire earth with the law of God and this rule will be a rule of iron.

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Of course the Bible doesn't match up with science. It's not a text book of any stripe. It's a book written by ancient Bronze Age Jews, especially regarding the parts you and your ilk unduly focus on. Unless of course you want God to be deceptive, which is the only way to square things away at all.

Cop out answer on the latter. You saying that "science will be brought down along with Satan" is very unambiguous and written in plain English.

I am so glad that your ilk is confined to the US.