Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

[prodromos]

As I said, go listen to your husband. He’ll tell you the reality that clouds absolutely do not go behind the sun and moon. Oh, and the earth is a globe. Does he know you think he’s indoctrinated?

I sometimes feel that @Apple Sky being on the forums so much of the time at least gives her husband some respite, although I suspect in reality the shape of the earth never comes up in conversation between them.

 

[Phil G]

I sometimes feel that @Apple Sky being on the forums so much of the time at least gives her husband some respite, although I suspect in reality the shape of the earth never comes up in conversation between them.

I agree, I’d say it never comes up. The poor man would get so frustrated. I feel for him!

 

[Apple Sky]

although I suspect in reality the shape of the earth never comes up in conversation between them.

This is where you are wrong I discuss the shape of the earth with my husband all the time, in fact we only discussing this very subject this afternoon.

 

[Phil G]

This is where you are wrong I discuss the shape of the earth with my husband all the time, in fact we only discussing this very subject this afternoon.

Oh do tell! How does he react to your insisting the earth is flat? And are you as judgemental of him as you are of us?

 

[Apple Sky]

Oh do tell! How does he react to your insisting the earth is flat?

No, I'm not giving personal information over the net for all & sundry to read, you'll have to PM me for that info.

 

[Phil G]

No, I'm not giving personal information over the net for all & sundry to read, you'll have to PM me for that info.

I’ll respect that. I was saying it in jest. I won’t PM you for that either. But I will say that I’ve no doubt he can tell you that clouds do not go behind the sun & moon in reality, especially if he’s as avid an amateur astronomer as my brother.

 

[Apple Sky]

I’ll respect that. I was saying it in jest. I won’t PM you for that either. But I will say that I’ve no doubt he can tell you that clouds do not go behind the sun & moon in reality, especially if he’s as avid an amateur astronomer as my brother.

I'm not sure what he'd say as we haven't discussed this yet.

 

[Phil G]

I'm not sure what he'd say as we haven't discussed this yet.

Well you should be able to figure it out for yourself anyway, even if the moon & sun are about 3000 miles above us, clouds 50 miles up could never go behind them. That means the photos are not giving you an accurate representation of reality.

You’re very quick to dismiss globe earth or satellite photos as fake without rational reason, yet these cloud photos you seem determined to believe even when they contradict flat earth distances.

 

[Strong in Him]

Not brainwashed, indoctrinated.

Not even close.

I was the same just like you - Heck I was the biggest fan of Star- Trek especially that movie where they travel back in time, that was hilarious.

You mean to say that you can't tell the difference between science lessons, factual events and a science fiction tv programme?

However when I began to read the Bible it didn't make much sense to me at the time until I discovered the earth was flat, then the whole Bible began to make a lot more sense to me

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that.
How did believing that the earth was flat help you to understand the Old Testament or the Trinity?
How did the flatness, or otherwise, of the earth help you to make sense of the Jewish food laws and deal with the question of whether Christians should keep them? Or the OT battles, where God, apparently, ordered the killing of babies and children? What has the shape of our planet got to do with Jesus being both God and man? Or that he died on the cross for us?
Have you been able to accept that you can have eternal life through Jesus and there is nothing you can do to earn God's love, only because of the shape of the earth?
How have you been able to live a holier life on a flat, 40,000-foot-deep disc than you could on a globe?

You don't seem to understand that a lot of us trust God and believe that the Bible is true and makes sense - and we believe the earth is a globe/sphere.

& so here I am & I've never looked back.

You HAVE looked back.
You've publicly said that flat earth is a load of nonsense, and asked God to help you accept it.

All it took for you to change your mind, was a YouTube video.
Not a vision of God, a revelation from the Bible, a Christian sermon or teaching on what various verses meant in Greek, but a YouTube video. And it was not GOD who showed you that video; it was your computer which "realised" that you were obsessed with flat earth and gave you further suggestions.
You've gone back on your new beliefs, your prayer and your vow to ask for God's help - because of a computer.

 

[Apple Sky]

You mean to say that you can't tell the difference between science lessons, factual events and a science fiction tv programme?

Of course I can

How did believing that the earth was flat help you to understand the Old Testament or the Trinity?

It helped me understand Genesis I that's for sure & lot of other passages.

How have you been able to live a holier life on a flat, 40,000-foot-deep disc than you could on a globe?

Still mocking I see.

You don't seem to understand that a lot of us trust God and believe that the Bible is true and makes sense - and we believe the earth is a globe/sphere.

This I can't understand, how can someone believe the bible and say Genesis 1 is what Moses imagined it to be ?

All it took for you to change your mind, was a YouTube video.
Not a vision of God, a revelation from the Bible, a Christian sermon or teaching on what various verses meant in Greek, but a YouTube video. And it was not GOD who showed you that video; it was your computer which "realised" that you were obsessed with flat earth and gave you further suggestions.
You've gone back on your new beliefs, your prayer and your vow to ask for God's help - because of a computer.

It wasn't only the YouTube video that changed my mind, the Bible had a lot to do with it also.

 

[Phil G]

This I can't understand, how can someone believe the bible and say Genesis 1 is what Moses imagined it to be ?

It wasn’t Moses imagining anything. I believe absolutely that the Bible is God’s word. And I know the earth to be a globe. I have no problem believing Genesis 1. You’re trying to force Phenomenological Language and original Hebrew words with broad meanings to be literal reality with narrow meanings for Hebrew words.

The Bible has much poetry and metaphors in it. And much of the descriptive terminology used relates to how the universe was understood at the time.

It means to understand the Bible is to study it, not just read it.

Even if you never come to believe that the earth is a globe, you have to respect that Christians can & still believe Genesis 1. There is absolutely no need to “educate” us out of it, because it only causes division and people turning away from Christianity.

 

[Apple Sky]

It wasn’t Moses imagining anything. I believe absolutely that the Bible is God’s word. And I know the earth to be a globe. I have no problem believing Genesis 1

Then why is it that some say Moses wrote Gen 1 on how he understood the earth to be at that time ?
Wasn't Gen 1 the inspired word of God.

 

[Phil G]

Then why is it that some say Moses wrote Gen 1 on how he understood the earth to be at that time ?
Wasn't Gen 1 the inspired word of God.

Yes Genesis is believed to be written by Moses. And he was inspired by God to write it. As far as I’m aware there are two basic ways to understand Genesis 1 and other parts of the Bible regarding terminology used to describe the cosmos.

One is to see it as being influenced by ancient Mesopotamian beliefs. Personally I don’t agree with this but I accept that others do & I’m not going to argue with them about it.

The other is to regard terminology as Phenomenological Language. In other words describing the cosmos as it appears to be, not as it actually is. This is what I personally believe.

The Bible is not a science book. It is focused on God as creator, not His creation. So trying to extract details of the reality of the cosmos is to distract from Him as creator and His plan of salvation.

You have quoted from the Psalms before, trying to extract details of the cosmos from them when it is obvious that metaphor is used extensively. It won’t work. You’re not focused on what the Psalms are really about - God.

So try studying God’s word instead of just reading it. It’s hard work but it is so rewarding. Try being part of a local Bible study group instead of watching YouTube videos. You’ll find the shape of the earth completely inconsequential to all the other stuff you learn about Him.

 

[prodromos]

This is where you are wrong I discuss the shape of the earth with my husband all the time, in fact we only discussing this very subject this afternoon.

Then your husband must have the patience of Job. Please pass on my warmest regards.

 

[Apple Sky]

Then your husband must have the patience of Job. Please pass on my warmest regards.

He has & I will - He laughed & said ' thank you'.

 

[Strong in Him]

Of course I can

I'm glad to hear it. But you said, "I was just like you. Heck, I was the biggest fan of Star Trek".
I never liked Star Trek - and a fictional programme has nothing to do with believing that the earth is a globe.

It helped me understand Genesis I that's for sure & lot of other passages.

How?
I understand Genesis 1 perfectly well, while believing that the earth is a globe.

Still mocking I see.

Then you don't understand me.
You believe that the earth is a flat disc. I once pointed out that the KJV talks about God bringing people up from the depths of the earth, and asked how deep the earth is. You replied that the deepest hole ever dug was over 40,000 feet deep. So according to your own statements, we live on a flat disc that is over 40,000 feet deep - not that such a shape exists.
You also said that a flat earth helps you to understand the Bible. So I asked you how the shape of the earth helped you in your Christian life and makes you more holy.
Obviously you can't answer that, because it doesn't. The shape of the earth has nothing to do with salvation, living a holy life, serving God, doing his will etc etc. It doesn't make us closer to God. It doesn't make prayer easier, or help us to understand Hebrew words in the OT.
There is no evidence that Moses ever talked, or worried about, about the shape of the earth. The shape of the earth did not help him to get away from Pharaoh or dry up the Red Sea. The Lord did not meet him face to face because he was a good, loyal flat-earther.
David did not kill Goliath because the earth was flat.

So no, that wasn't mocking - it was asking you for practical ways in which the shape of the earth has helped you in your Christian life or brought you closer to God.

This I can't understand, how can someone believe the bible and say Genesis 1 is what Moses imagined it to be ?

Like I said before, there are different ways of reading/understanding the Bible.
Some people think that for the Bible to be true, every word has to be literally true - I don't know if you are one of those, or not.
But Genesis 1 does not say the earth is flat or that God created a flat earth. Genesis, apparently, "tells us more about the earth than I could imagine". Yet you could not answer my simple questions about how God created the various plants and animals, their digestive systems and so on.

And what I said is true; I, and many other Christians, accept, read, study, believe and learn the Bible, knowing that it is the word of God.
We do this knowing that the earth is a globe.

It wasn't only the YouTube video that changed my mind, the Bible had a lot to do with it also.

Your interpretation of the Bible may have had "a lot" to do with it - though that wasn't what you said at the time.

 

[Apple Sky]

The other is to regard terminology as Phenomenological Language. In other words describing the cosmos as it appears to be, not as it actually is. This is what I personally believe.

Why don't you take God at his word, the whole Bible is the inspired word of God whether is be a metaphor or a parable or even poetry.
I take Genesis 1 very seriously as it was God's way in teaching us about the earth & the cosmos so we don't fall into deception in the latter days.

Don't forget it's only been 500 years since Nicolaus Copernicus told us the earth was moving sphere, how would he know ? And then Martin Luther warned us of this deception. So forgive me if I'm an ardent flat earther.

 

[Strong in Him]

Then why is it that some say Moses wrote Gen 1 on how he understood the earth to be at that time ?
Wasn't Gen 1 the inspired word of God.

Moses wrote that God created the earth and everything in it; trees, animals, plants etc.
He did not write a step-by-step account of how God created - he left out many, many details, timeframe etc. He did not say, "this is the creation of the earth as I understand it", nor did he say "God has told me to write this account so that you know HOW he created." That was not his purpose for writing; just as people don't write cookery books to teach the meaning of words, or to teach another language.
God created. GOD created - end of. It is God's world; everything was made because God wanted it and everything was made through Jesus. The universe did not come about by chance, because angels wanted it to, or because there are many other gods who all created a bit of it. It was made by God.

If God had dictated, to anyone, his method of creating the world - "first, I took this atom and divided it and this is how I created things from nothing" - not only would Genesis be longer than the whole Bible, but people would not have understood it.
How could Noah, Abraham, Methuselah, Jacob etc have understood astronomy, geology, quantum physics etc etc? They couldn't, and they didn't need to. All they needed was to accept that there was a God who was powerful enough to have created everything that they could see, that this God wanted a relationship with them and they, too, could know his power and love if they trusted him. Nothing about these men and women of faith - their courage, trust, obedience, hope etc came about because of the shape of the earth. I doubt they even thought about it. When you have Pharaoh's whole army chasing you, you don't need to know that God made the earth to be a certain shape, you need to know that he has the power to rescue you.

 

[Apple Sky]

I never liked Star Trek - and a fictional programme has nothing to do with believing that the earth is a globe.

But it had every to do with believing in space & NASA which I don't, not anymore.

You also said that a flat earth helps you to understand the Bible. So I asked you how the shape of the earth helped you in your Christian life and makes you more holy.

I believe the whole Bible is the Inspired word of God.

We do this knowing that the earth is a globe.

How do you know this ? Because One Astronaut says so ?

Your interpretation of the Bible may have had "a lot" to do with it - though that wasn't what you said at the time.

I didn't think I needed to as this has always been my reason for believing in the shape of the earth.

 

[Apple Sky]

Moses wrote that God created the earth and everything in it; trees, animals, plants etc.
He did not write a step-by-step account of how God created

The scriptures go on to tell us this, take the book of Job for instance ..........