flat earth debate

Camila Smith said:

I have heard a couple people creating posts about the flat earth theory, can anyone give some opinions on this theory please
i want a different perspective on what people belive

thank you
camila smith <3

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100% of people experience a flat earth.
Even NASA uses language like "Sunrise" "SunSet" as if the sun was moving.
Drop a handful of marbles on a flat surface.
Walk 100 miles and drop the marbles again.
You'd never know that the surfaces were not the same flat surface
unless someone yelled at you for thinking so stupid.
That's what anti-flat people do. Yell at others and call them stupid.

SkyWriting said:

100% of people experience a flat earth.
Even NASA uses language like "Sunrise" "SunSet" as if the sun was moving.
Drop a handful of marbles on a flat surface.
Walk 100 miles and drop the marbles again.
You'd never know that the surfaces were not the same flat surface
unless someone yelled at you for thinking so stupid.
That's what anti-flat people do. Yell at others and call them stupid.

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Exactly.
Never an actual proof, never a moment's consideration of anything other than what they've been told.
My comfort zone is my relationship with my creator, not my knowledge of His creation.
Not many are able to suspend their indoctrinated beliefs long enough to test the structural integrity of alternate theories unless it's a movie that engages their lowest appetites.
And yet they revel in denigrating those who do.

They come into this forum with know-it-all attitudes and condescend to tell us if indirectly, what idiots we are.
It's pretty easy to find the curve formula and then find an across water line of sight that defies it.

Strathos said:

It's absolute nonsense and can easily be disproven in a myriad of ways.

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I proposed a flat earth experiment.
Ask a contractor to build a road "Flat and Level" that is one mile long.
Then send a group of college educated people to each end with their
own bag of marbles. Ask them to check if the road in flat and level
at their end. Both will declare the road is indeed, "Flat and Level".
For this reason 100% of people experience a flat earth. Even another
group in the middle would not notice the 4 inch bulge.

But a few scientists would run around like headless chickens telling
everyone they are stupid for thinking the road was flat and level.

SkyWriting said:

I proposed a flat earth experiment.
Ask a contractor to build a road "Flat and Level" that is one mile long.
Then send a group of college educated people to each end with their
own bag of marbles. Ask them to check if the road in flat and level
at their end. Both will declare the road is indeed, "Flat and Level".
For this reason 100% of people experience a flat earth. Even another
group in the middle would not notice the 4 inch bulge.

But a few scientists would run around like headless chickens telling
everyone they are stupid for thinking the road was flat and level.

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They are relative terms then, yes?

If we examine our universe there are a number of observations that must be consistently explained:

1. tidal effects on earth


2. moon's near side "locked' to earth

3. phases of the moon

4. retardation of the moon's 'rising'

5. seasons of the earth

6. seasonal 24 hour days and nights in the arctic and antarctic

7. coreolis effects on earth

8. Foucault's pendulum

9. precession of the earth's axis

10. apparent daily rotation of the "fixed stars" about the pole star

11. motion of the "wandering stars" (planets) including retrograde motion

12. earth-moon centre of gravity orbits

13. eclipses of the sun, moon and planets

14. northern and southern lights

15. meteors, asteroids and comets

16. moons and/or rings around other planets

17. there are certainly other effects that I have missed

There is only one self consistent model that explains all of these observations and that is the present cosmology of our solar system. This does not explain why these objects behave as they do, it only provides a very refined model that accounts for all the observed effects.

Now add into this the experimentally verified non-relativistic laws of motion and of gravity, known as Newtonian or classical mechanics, and we now have the why that explains the model in a near perfect manner. It is so successful that it has enabled us to send people into earth and moon orbits, to the moon itself and even return to earth. We have been able to navigate probes to all the planets and beyond. People have stood on our moon and observed our planet rotating in front of them in real time. Any other cosmology finds it necessary to suspend known laws of science, hypothesize supernatural intervention and invoke a conspiracy theory extending over centuries involving tens of millions of people a great many of whom are Christian.

In Old Testament times it is certainly true that they regarded the earth as flat in a three tiered universe --- flat with a sky-dome (the firmament) overhead. Just like the rapture theory and the trinity theory, the flat earth worldview is nowhere stated explicitly but it is alluded to in many places. There are also many old testament and even a few new testament stories that are only to be understood in a flat earth context. Generally this flat earth was regarded as circular but we are in places told that it has four corners and is supported by pillars and that there are storehouses for the snow and hail. Of course this seems very primitive to us today but we must remember that these scriptures come out of a far less sophisticated culture. A culture that was deeply suspicious of anything Gentile. It may well be that some of the educated elite were aware of the Greek notion of a spherical world but with an illiteracy rate of about 90% the common people certainly were not. The scriptures were most likely written with the naivety of the common people in mind and used language that would not stretch their credulity too far.



In New Testament times, the young Christian church had a similar suspicion of paganism. Over a period of several centuries it systematically destroyed all things pagan. Temples, shrines, academies, libraries and universities were pulled down and burned. Their priests, teachers and professors were tortured and executed often in front of bloodthirsty Christian mobs. They destroyed not just spiritual works but any book even the slightest bit tainted by paganism even if it was on astronomy, medicine, engineering, technology, mathematics, geography, history or architecture. This massive loss of the underpinnings of civilization contributed in part to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire and the subsequent thousand years of the Dark Ages. In AD380 after a yet another wave of persecution, the 95 year-old hierophant Nestorius, ended the Eleusinian Mysteries and announced the predominance of mental darkness over the human race. How very ironic and prophetic!



It is little wonder then that the flat earth notion persisted so long and that the bible was used to support it. After all the flat earth was the biblical worldview. Should it concern us that the bible supported this notion? Not at all! We do not need to rush to its defense and use weasel words to somehow prove to ourselves that the bible authors had the same worldview that we do. We must realize that these authors lived in a historical context and that the language and ideas that they used fit that context as well.

SkyWriting said:

I proposed a flat earth experiment.
Ask a contractor to build a road "Flat and Level" that is one mile long.
Then send a group of college educated people to each end with their
own bag of marbles. Ask them to check if the road in flat and level
at their end. Both will declare the road is indeed, "Flat and Level".
For this reason 100% of people experience a flat earth. Even another
group in the middle would not notice the 4 inch bulge.

But a few scientists would run around like headless chickens telling
everyone they are stupid for thinking the road was flat and level.

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You're equivocating. Flat earthers aren't saying that the earth is relatively flat from an individual perspective, they are saying it is completely flat - it's a disc with edges, not a sphere. You know this.

Rick Otto said:

They are relative terms then, yes?

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Exactly. The earth is mostly flat with very little curve of 8 inches per mile.
Most people would say that is a very straight line.

Strathos said:

You're equivocating. Flat earthers aren't saying that the earth is relatively flat from an individual perspective, they are saying it is completely flat - it's a disc with edges, not a sphere. You know this.

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I'm being scientific. It's of virtually no consequence.

SkyWriting said:

Exactly. The earth is mostly flat with very little curve of 8 inches per mile.
Most people would say that is a very straight line.

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Thank you. I agree. As I understand it, the formula for curvature is 8" per mile squared, so 8" the first mile, 64" the next...

SkyWriting said:

I'm being scientific. It's of virtually no consequence.

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It's of incredible consequence. For example, have you noticed all of those hurricanes we've been having recently? With a flat earth the Coriolis effect would be completely different and hurricanes would not appear in the same form and locations that they do now.

Strathos said:

It's of incredible consequence. For example, have you noticed all of those hurricanes we've been having recently? With a flat earth the Coriolis effect would be completely different and hurricanes would not appear in the same form and locations that they do now.

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I mean on a personal level. Of course as you watch storms from space, your perspective changes.
But few get to do that.

Rick Otto said:

Thank you. I agree. As I understand it, the formula for curvature is 8" per mile squared, so 8" the first mile, 64" the next...

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The rate of curve remains the same though. The curve of the earth is likely multiples times straighter than you could draw.
If the surface were geometrically flat, the ends would seem like mountain climbs after a while becasue the center of gravity would be far behind you after a while.

I find the discussion intriguing.
My position at the moment is that there may well be something odd about what we (are made to) believe.
But i don't believe the earth is flat.
I think a flat earth is impossible.

it may well be a 'psyop' of some sorts, to make Bible believing Christians look stupid.
Just like false flag terrorism is not condemned by Muslims sometimes, a group of Christians choose to stick with the flat earth model (which is from God's viewpoint) as described in Scripture.

What feeds the dismissal of the round earth is the credibility deficit of NASA.
I mean like, how convenient the van Allen radiation belt was not yet discovered when they went to the moon.
Otherwise they wouldn't have survived it...
And there are many more examples of (possible) NASA deception.

And there are many more things the world teaches us that oppose God or truth in general.
So, the mistrust is justified, but that doesn't make the earth a flat plane.

Hieronymus said:

I find the discussion intriguing.
My position at the moment is that there may well be something odd about what we (are made to) believe.
But i don't believe the earth is flat.
I think a flat earth is impossible.

it may well be a 'psyop' of some sorts, to make Bible believing Christians look stupid.
Just like false flag terrorism is not condemned by Muslims sometimes, a group of Christians choose to stick with the flat earth model (which is from God's viewpoint) as described in Scripture.

What feeds the dismissal of the round earth is the credibility deficit of NASA.
I mean like, how convenient the van Allen radiation belt was not yet discovered when they went to the moon.
Otherwise they wouldn't have survived it...
And there are many more examples of (possible) NASA deception.

And there are many more things the world teaches us that oppose God or truth in general.
So, the mistrust is justified, but that doesn't make the earth a flat plane.

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But my point is that thinking the earth as a flat plane is the most natural and most personally experienced (Scientific) of any conclusion. You really have to bend your mind into a pretzel to imagine that the Chinese are inverted and pointing down toward "Hell" when you point at the sky. There is nothing in the common experience of most people to think the earth is not flat except for people constantly telling you it's not. But the earth has 0.01% deviation from a perfect plane, or 8 inches per mile.

Strathos said:

With a flat earth the Coriolis effect would be completely different and hurricanes would not appear in the same form and locations that they do now.

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With a flat earth the Coriolis Effect would be non existent and magic would have to be evoked to explain the observations.

Hieronymus said:

What feeds the dismissal of the round earth is the credibility deficit of NASA.
I mean like, how convenient the van Allen radiation belt was not yet discovered when they went to the moon.
Otherwise they wouldn't have survived it...
And there are many more examples of (possible) NASA deception.

Click to expand...

The Van Allen radiation belts are indeed a serious hazard to any astronaut spending an extended time within them. All the earth orbit manned missions' including the international space station' are well below this radiation hazard. However, the manned missions to the moon had to transit the Van Allen belts both outbound and inbound. A lethal radiation dosage is 300 Rad in one hour. At the time of these missions the Van Allen belts had been well mapped out in terms of radiation intensities. The Apollo mission's average speed through the belts was about 25,000 km/hr for a transit time of about 53 min each both outbound and inbound. Each transit would have resulted in crew members receiving about 12 Rads of radiation. So each astronaut on each complete Mission would have received about 24 Rads or about 8% of a lethal dose. Is there a risk? Yes, but it was a calculated risk. All such voyages of exploration were calculated risks. Some never came back. Lief Erikson, Christopher Columbus and Ferdinand Magellan did. Well, Magellan died in the last leg of the journey home, but his crew did make it back with his records. They were all calculated risks. That is how human progress takes place. The risks may vary but they are all risks.

I am glad to have helped you put that piece of misinformation to rest.

JackRT said:

With a flat earth the Coriolis Effect would be non existent and magic would have to be evoked to explain the observations.

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I was being generous and assuming a rotating disc

JackRT said:

At the time of these missions the Van Allen belts had been well mapped out in terms of radiation intensities.

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It's good they got something right about the dangers of space:

Poppyseed78 said:

The earth is not flat....

I mean. It's not flat. lol

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Sure, but what exactly do you mean?