Fits in Public

[E-beth]

I need some sympathy...*sniff*

I have been attending a kindergarten readiness program with my son for the past several weeks. It is supposed to be for kids who have poor verbal or communication skills, but we go just so he can get to know the teachers and some of the kids for next year. The parents go to one room to have a meeting while the kids go to an ajoining room to do school types of stuff.

Tonight my son ran from the parent room into the kid room. The kindergarten teacher and I both asked him to walk. I did what I always do...I asked him to go back and try it again. Well, he pitched a royal fit. He said he wanted to do something else (besides walk) and I explained that inside school we walk. So he proceeds to skip into the kid room and falls flat on his face. So I bring him back into the middle room and tell him to straighten up and walk.

He proceeds to throw a tremendous fit. He is crying and stamping his feet and screaming. The teacher comes in and says I can take him home if I want to because the program notes are all written out. So we go in the parent room and she is showing me the notes while my son is throwing his tantrum. In front of the other parents. And his teachers for the next year. And he is about to turn six. So I dragged him through the school to the car with him SCREAMING. I was weeping by the time I got him to the car. I was so embarrassed. He threw fits at two every so often, but this is just...awful. I don't know if I will be able to go back next week.

Please tell me somebody else has had a similar experience and that I will be able to get past this.

 

[Black-bird fly]

public fits are so hard.

Wish I had some wonderful amazing advice but I don't.

 

[Birbitt]

Don't sweat it. Seriously what parent hasn't had their child have a fit in public??? Honestly my theory is if you don't like the way my child acts feel free to say something if you yourself have a perfect child that never makes mistakes...otherwise keep quiet. LOL. So really don't fret over it I'm sure the parents and teachers know that children have meltdowns....however I would go back the next week and make your son apologize to the teachers and other parents for his behavior the week before...bet he won't make that mistake again.

 

[pmcleanj]

...Please tell me somebody else has had a similar experience and that I will be able to get past this.

My darling twelve-year-old, who everyone tells me is sophisticated and charming at age twelve, who is starting grade nine this spring and has a maturity of bearing to match her academic maturity -- she was still throwing tantrums at age five.

You will survive. He will turn out fine. Never apologize; never surrender (not to him, and certainly not to the other parents!) You will get past this.

 

[Everlasting33]

Although I am not a parent, I really wanted to respond to your post. Here is an excellent article about it: http://www.parenting.com/article/Child/Behavior/child-mood-swings-and-tantrums

 

[sparassidae]

Oh yeah, I can relate. My 8yo DS still does this sometimes, most often at church........ Fantastic example of a pastor's perfect child...... NOT!

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Ahhhh- the five year old tantrum.....it's like age two- only louder and more dramatic.

Next week you get to be forearmed You can take the time to prepare him for what will happen and what will be expected. You have time to role play (he can be the teacher and get to tell you to walk!! ). You have time and knowledge to make sure that he has eaten well beforehand, and tht he is well rested. You have time to offer him choices about the experience (Do you want to wear your red shirt to school or blue shirt?, etc)--to give him some sense and feeling of control over the situation.

To me what defines a parent is what they do once their child is in total thermo-nuclear meltdown--not what the child does. Kids are kids and have the emotional lives of children....but we can choose how we respond to such an inconvenient display of strong emotion--do we yell? do we whisper softly? do we spank or isolate or blame the child for his emotions? do we recognise that we might have better prepared for this experience? do we offer sympathy by looking through the child's eyes? do we demand that they stop crying?


And, I am so sorry that happened It's so hard when you want you kiddos to do well and have an enjoyable time and it turns into a trainwreck you feel helpless to stop....

 

[MyaShane]

Yes, been there. It is embarrassing! But the fact that you’re here talking about it means it’s not a normal thing with him and that it’s a concern for you.
I would have had a real heart-to-heart chat with him after the fact when we were both calmed down; about his behavior and what my expectations are. My 6yo always responds well to later being able to reflect on how her behaviors affected me, others and how she portrayed herself in the situation. I wouldn’t expect this to be an ongoing thing with him there at all. I would assume he was more overwhelmed with all of the new things to see and experience.

 

[Mayzoo]

He may have been acting on the stress of the new situation, new kids, new environment..... When he "pulled your strings" and got you embarrassed (we have all been there )--whamo....what a great way to try and get out of what may have been a confusing or stressful situation to him.

I would both see if he can verbalize why he was stressed/scared/over-stimulated or whatever adjective need to be put in there. Maybe you can glean an idea of what happened, then try to mitigate it for next week (btw you have to go back simply because he threw the fit--or he may win if his intention was to get to leave by the tantrum). You can make the school ground rules clear, and even go over the "rule book" they probably have.

Clear expectations, and a plan of action already mapped out for if he does not behave (no matter what he does--he threw a "fast ball" last time, he may throw a "curve" next week ). I tell my kiddo, "everywhere has a corner, and I will use it." He will not want to be embarrassed by consequences (regardless of what method you use) in front of other parents and other kiddos. So make sure he understands the consequences to his actions. Then all you can do is hope he chooses well, and enforce the consequences if he does not.

Do not be embarrassed because really---WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE, AND MOSTLY I AM TRYING NOT TO CHUCKLE BECAUSE IT IS SOMEONE ELSE'S TURN NOW!!

Tantrums never really go away...they just morph as our coping skills change! Even adults tantrum sometimes. It is just more sophisticated looking (I hope).

 

[E-beth]

Oh yeah, I can relate. My 8yo DS still does this sometimes, most often at church........ Fantastic example of a pastor's perfect child...... NOT!

I know what you mean... I teach a pre-kindergarten class of five-year-olds!

Thanks for all the kind words. It's nice to know I am not alone. The thing is, he must have just been tired, because he had been to this class for the past four weeks.

I had him write a letter of apology and he will hand deliver them next Tuesday.

My mother was so supportive. He laughed and told me about the time she carried me screaming at the top of my lungs down the church aisle when I was six. During the fits of laughter she said something about a payback.

 

[WarEagle]

There are two things you can do.

One is to grit your teeth and let him pitch his fit. Just completely ignore him and don't give him the attention he's looking for.

The other is to spank him.

Either is acceptable, but which one is the right one depends on the child and on the situation.

We handled it differently with each of our two oldest children.

When Melody was a child and would pitch a fit, she was doing it to get her way.

So I spanked her. She soon learned that her parents were not about to have a battle of wills with a child and stopped doing it.

Jason's personality is a lot different from Melody's and so, when he would pitch a fit, it was usually out of frustration. We just ignored him and let him pitch a fit. It was embarrassing for us because it got us a lot of dirty looks from others who didn't understand.

When he got tired of carrying on, I'd just say "Are we finished now? Anything else you want to get off you chest?" And then I'd take him by the hand and continue on in whatever we were doing like nothing had happened

Eventually, he learned that pitching a fit didn't do anything.

In Melody's case, it was disobedient behavior that she needed to be broken of.

In Jason's case, it was inappropriate behavior that he needed to learn to grow out of.

Every child is different, every situation is different. That's why it's hard for me to tell you what to do without knowing your child, but I hope this helps.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

War Eagle- baloney. There are far more options than spanking or pretending the child doesn't exist. I neither ignore my kid's emotional meltdowns nor hit them for having emotions too big for them to understand.

Ironically-between my five kids who are all very intense, high need kiddos, I can count on one hand how many emotional metldowns they've had in public--and I eam all of them together..I actually can't think of any--though I am sure there must have been.

I do what I can to empower them not to have meltdowns in the first place, and when they do happen I am not going to shame them or feel like they are doing something wrong by expressing their big emotions in a big way--rather I am going to teach them the proper way to express those big emotions.

It is possible to set firm and clear boundaries without hitting a child. Anyone who knows me knows that I don't mess around with disobedient behaviour- it is not allowed. There are clear, firm boundaries. However, to me---a high need child experiencing a brand new external environment and having an emotional meltdown isn't a disclipline issue...he's not doing anything willfully bad. As a child, he just doesn't know what to do with feelings of powerlessness and fear of an unfamiliar situation....I don't see that ignoring those feelings or hitting them for those feelings helps a child grow to be a caring empathetic adult. Rather it teaches them that other people's feelings are eoither to be ignored or to be punished.

The thing with public tantrums is that parents feel embarassed by them-and then parent out of their own negative place-instead of trying to see the situation from the eyes of the child and the emotions that are truly behind the tantrum. Of course that would require empathy--which was likely quashed by their parents hitting them for their emotions....

 

[WarEagle]

War Eagle- baloney.

Thank you for that well thought out and oh, so Christlike response.

It is possible to set firm and clear boundaries without hitting a child.

I didn't say anything about hitting them.

a high need child experiencing a brand new external environment and having an emotional meltdown isn't a disclipline issue...he's not doing anything willfully bad. As a child, he just doesn't know what to do with feelings of powerlessness and fear of an unfamiliar situation

Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I made that very same piont and distinguished between the two.

I don't see that ignoring those feelings or hitting them for those feelings helps a child grow to be a caring empathetic adult.

Again, I didn't say anything about hitting them.

Rather it teaches them that other people's feelings are eoither to be ignored or to be punished.

No, it teaches them that some behaviors are not acceptable, in which case they will bring bad consequences, or are not helpful, in which case the child learns that they do not bring the desired result.

The thing with public tantrums is that parents feel embarassed by them-and then parent out of their own negative place-instead of trying to see the situation from the eyes of the child and the emotions that are truly behind the tantrum. Of course that would require empathy--which was likely quashed by their parents hitting them for their emotions....

For the third time, I didn't say anything about hitting them.

You seem to be hung up on hitting children. Were you abused as a child?

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Spanking--no matter how you spin it-- is an adult hitting a child.

Your distinction was the diference of when one ought to ignore a child leaving them to sort out their big emotions on their own and when to hit them for their big emotions. There was nothing about empowering your children to learn how to properly express themselves...only how not to express themselves.

If Christianity is about loving your neighbor as yourself--I would be just heartbroken to have overwhelming emotions and have my husband just pretend I don't exist or to hit me for those emotions. I don't want him to try to "fix" my problem or to allow me to be destructive in my emotions--but I do want to know that he is there, with me, emotionally connected as I suffer--and as the person who knows me best listen to me tell him what is wrong or be silent if I can't yet verbalise what I need to say...and then I would like his input about how to deal with whatever the overwhelming situation is. For some reason people routinely choose not to love their children as they themselves would like to be loved. Go figure.

And then parents wonder why their teenagers don't talk to them about anything

 

[WarEagle]

Spanking--no matter how you spin it-- is an adult hitting a child.

Two completely different things.

Your distinction was the diference of when one ought to ignore a child leaving them to sort out their big emotions on their own and when to hit them for their big emotions.

Again, it has nothing to do with emotions. It has to do with behavior.

Funny that my children were able to figure this out by the time they were five years old, but you still don't get it.

I would be just heartbroken to have overwhelming emotions and have my husband just pretend I don't exist or to hit me for those emotions.

Again, you're implying (a) that I hit my children and (b) that I punish them for their emotions.

Both implications are untrue. I have never hit my children, nor would I ever punish them for their emotions.

For some reason people routinely choose not to love their children as they themselves would like to be loved. Go figure.

Also untrue. I love my children very much and one of the ways I express this love to them is by teaching them that certain behaviors are unacceptable.

And then parents wonder why their teenagers don't talk to them about anything

Again, untrue. My children have a very close relationship with my wife and I and they know that they can come to us with any problem, question, concern, etc.

I guess I have to wonder, if we're such bad parents, (a) why the state keeps sending us at risk children to foster and (b) why so many of the parents at our church keep bringing their children to our farm for sleepovers and camp outs.

If you truly believe that we're such terrible parents, then here is the contact information for Maryland CPS you should call to report us:

TEL (410) 996-0100 (Option 3)
(After hours: 410-996-5350)
FAX (410) 996-0228

170 East Main Street
Elkton, Maryland 21922-1160

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

To spank a child one hits them--with either one's hand, or an implement of some sort. That's the definition of spanking. How exactly is spanking not hitting? If one spanks one's kids- that requires hitting them. There are no semantic games here. If a person feels spanking is the right thing to do--there oughn't be any issue with the words, unless they live in denial about what spanking actually is- an adult hitting a child.

Tantrums are all about emotions. Children have tantrums when they have big , overwhelming emotions to express that they don't know how to process. Being children they don't always express those emotions in a way that is socially acceptable. If one spanks a child or ignores a child having a tantrum (which is an expression of emotions) that child is being taught that those big emotions are to either be punished or ignored. War Eagle, perhaps you don't believe that behaviour reflections emotion--and maybe that is where our confusion lies; however, you would hold a minority view-as it is the prevalent viewpoint among those in the child development field that behaviour and emotion are closely linked and tied to one another.

Children need to be taught not just how not to do somehting- but also how to properly respond. Stopping tantrum behaviour is only half the equation - the other half is teaching them how to properly express those emotions that they feel which have yielded to a tantrum.

War Eagle- you wrote that you punish (spanking or isolating a child is a punitive measure, right? ) for tantrums. Tantrums are a bad way of communicating emotion...ergo you are punishing a child for how they are expressing emotion. I am just re-writing what you wrote and the logical conclusions of what you wrote- I am not making a judgement about your parenting.

If you feel implicated or needing to justify your choices by anything I wrote- that is something for you to search your heart about. As if you re-read my posts I didn't make any personal comments about you or your parenting, rather I worte about what I do and why and my general thoughts on parenting. It just happens to strongly disagree with your choices, and I feel adamantly that there are vastly more than two ways to effectively deal with tantrums.

 

[WarEagle]

To spank a child one hits them--with either one's hand, or an implement of some sort. That's the definition of spanking. How exactly is spanking not hitting?

Spanking is for discipline. Hitting is for hurting.

If one spanks one's kids- that requires hitting them.

And yet, millions of parents manage to spank our children without hitting them.

Imagine that!

There are no semantic games here. If a person feels spanking is the right thing to do--there oughn't be any issue with the words, unless they live in denial about what spanking actually is- an adult hitting a child.

Spanking and hitting are two completely different things.

Tantrums are all about emotions.

Tantrums are a behavior, not an emotion.

Children have tantrums when they have big , overwhelming emotions to express that they don't know how to process. Being children they don't always express those emotions in a way that is socially acceptable.

Then we need to teach them this and we cannot teach them what is socially acceptable without first teaching them what is not socially acceptable.

If one spanks a child or ignores a child having a tantrum (which is an expression of emotions) that child is being taught that those big emotions are to either be punished or ignored.

Not at all. It's teaching them that some behavior is unacceptable.

Like I said, it's ironic that my children were able to figure this out by the time they were five years old but you still don't get it.

War Eagle, perhaps you don't believe that behaviour reflections emotion

It may reflect emotion and it may not reflect emotion. That's not the issue.

The issue is, if it does reflect emotion, is it an acceptable way to reflect emotion and I, along with all good parents, say that it is not.

you would hold a minority view

Really? That's odd. Virtually everybodyI've ever talked to and all of the resources I've read say that children throwing temper tantrums need to be disciplined.

as it is the prevalent viewpoint among those in the child development field that behaviour and emotion are closely linked and tied to one another.

That's interesting. My mother is a PhD in early childhod development and, for forty years, has specialized in counseling troubled children. She writes many of the books universities use to teach their students about child development. She has a home on our farm and sees everything we do.

Not one time has she ever told me that we were wrong to discipline them in this way.

In addition, none of the parenting resources, written from a Christian point of view, say that it's wrong to discipline children.

In fact, did you know that the Bible says that if you don't discipline your children, you don't love them?

Children need to be taught not just how not to do somehting- but also how to properly respond. Stopping tantrum behaviour is only half the equation - the other half is teaching them how to properly express those emotions that they feel which have yielded to a tantrum.

I agree. That's why we've done just that. Again, it's funny that our children were able to get this by the time they were five, but you still don't get it.

War Eagle- you wrote that you punish (spanking or isolating a child is a punitive measure, right? ) for tantrums.

I don't consider it "punishing", no. And I don't know what you mean by "isolating a child".

Tantrums are a bad way of communicating emotion...ergo you are punishing a child for how they are expressing emotion.

For their bad behavior, right.

If you feel implicated or needing to justify your choices by anything I wrote- that is something for you to search your heart about.

Oh, believe me, my heart is just fine.

As if you re-read my posts I didn't make any personal comments about you or your parenting

No, only constantly. Your posts seem to be built on the premise of attacking us and our parenting.

,

rather I worte about what I do

You didn't just write what you do. You wrote what you think is so terrible about what we do.

I feel adamantly that there are vastly more than two ways to effectively deal with tantrums.

You're the one who's got to raise your kids and you're the one who's going to have to live with the results.

Frankly, we're thrilled with the results of our parenting, as evidenced in the lives and character of our children.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Likely it is too nuanced for this discussion to point out that there are far more ways to teach children discipline than by hitting them (because let's be honest the whole point of spanking is to hurt the child so that they will internalise the boundary that a parent doesn't want them to cross--so that they connect physical pain with boundary crossing and no longer cross that boundary in the future) or ignoring them.

For some reason you appear to believe that I do not teach my children self discipline (which is the second implication in this thread you made about me not being Christian enough) since I don't spank or ignore tantrums. The funny thing is- I honestly can't recall a single public tantrum--though I am sure there were some....whereas you talked about the pattern of your children's tantrums. Go figure.

 

[WarEagle]

Likely it is too nuanced for this discussion to point out that there are far more ways to teach children discipline than by hitting them (because let's be honest the whole point of spanking is to hurt the child so that they will internalise the boundary that a parent doesn't want them to cross--so that they connect physical pain with boundary crossing and no longer cross that boundary in the future)

Were you abused as a child?

which is the second implication in this thread you made about me not being Christian enough

Interesting. I don't recall saying anything about you and Christianity one way or the other.

Why, I'll bet if I asked you for an example of me saying you're "not Christian enough", you could give a bunch of them, couldn't you?

whereas you talked about the pattern of your children's tantrums. Go figure.

Absolutely. All children throw tantrums and pitch fits.

My wife and I were fortunate because we disciplined them properly and there were very few of them.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Not that it's any of your business in any way- but no, I was not physically abused as a child.

Thank you for that well thought out and oh, so Christlike response.

In addition, none of the parenting resources, written from a Christian point of view, say that it's wrong to discipline children.

In fact, did you know that the Bible says that if you don't discipline your children, you don't love them?