Fish who won't evolve.

[DogmaHunter]

Learn to deal with the fact that i have a brain. That shouldn't be a problem. I can do that.

Then why do you insist on arguing against the idea that your material brain is the source of your thinking, emotion, reasoning,...?

Why do you insist on denying that that is exactly the subject of study of the neurosciences?

 

[Extraneous]

Then why do you insist on arguing against the idea that your material brain is the source of your thinking, emotion, reasoning,...?

Why do you insist on denying that that is exactly the subject of study of the neurosciences?

I believe my existence as an individual and an intellectual being, are worthy of a more than such elementary observation.

 

[Chris B]

I find the opposite to be true. People fear death less when they live by faith.

This is quite possible, but the faith could be illusory.
One can easily go so far as to say most faiths must be, because of their mutual incompatibility.
No judgement on specific faiths is required for that.

I was once in a group of about group of something over a hundred people who were subjected, unknowing,to a psychological test.
About eight of us showed a preference for knowing an unpleasant truth over living with a comfortable and acceptable illusion. The rest went the other way.

Chris

 

[SkyWriting]

It sounds like your entire case is based on an appeal to emotion. Are you aware that this is a fallacy?

Like when your mother says she loves you?

 

[Chris B]

I have been through the hardships of life, i'm no stranger to how the world works. I know about spiritualism because i know about the pain of the soul. I know the deceptions of this world as well, the ones we all face inevitably.. There are no illusions left in my life. If only you could feel what i've seen. I have seen it all. Even what i didn't personally live with, i saw even that. I have seen the darkness of life. Illusions are for people who have strength to imagine. I have seen tired and hopeless. Seen the darkness of life.

To the degree that I am able to empathise with you, I do.
(I consider "I know how you feel" to be largely either illusion or mere platitude.)

You have "I know about spiritualism because i know about the pain of the soul."
While I strongly consider that the concept of a soul is itself an illusion.
(For many popular uses of the term: it's rather variable in definition. See also "spirit".)

"I have seen tired and hopeless. Seen the darkness of life."
For THIS I can say "been there, done that. "
(without any intent or attempt to score in a comparative darkness competition.)

How would you know you have no illusions? The whole point of an undetected illusion is that you are treating it as real.

"Oh, I can always tell people with autism" a lady in a supermarket once said to me, referencing a boy with clear signs.
That's a logic failure of course: how could she know if she'd failed to identify someone?
I passed her my National Autistic Society Identity and briefing card.
"But you look normal", she said, highlighting another of her illusions.

You could be right, about illusions and reality, having them correctly sorted and filed.
But I can't see on what solid ground you get your *certainty* from.
I hold that emotion and personal experience is not enough. Not for dead sure, which leaves open the possibility, small as it may be, of being wrong.
(no, I can't be dead certain about that...)

 

[Extraneous]

To the degree that I am able to empathise with you, I do.
(I consider "I know how you feel" to be largely either illusion or mere platitude.)

You have "I know about spiritualism because i know about the pain of the soul."
While I strongly consider that the concept of a soul is itself an illusion.
(For many popular uses of the term: it's rather variable in definition. See also "spirit".)

"I have seen tired and hopeless. Seen the darkness of life."
For THIS I can say "been there, done that. "
(without any intent or attempt to score in a comparative darkness competition.)

How would you know you have no illusions? The whole point of an undetected illusion is that you are treating it as real.

"Oh, I can always tell people with autism" a lady in a supermarket once said to me, referencing a boy with clear signs.
That's a logic failure of course: how could she know if she'd failed to identify someone?
I passed her my National Autistic Society Identity and briefing card.
"But you look normal", she said, highlighting another of her illusions.

You could be right, about illusions and reality, having them correctly sorted and filed.
But I can't see on what solid ground you get your *certainty* from.
I hold that emotion and personal experience is not enough. Not for dead sure, which leaves open the possibility, small as it may be, of being wrong.
(no, I can't be dead certain about that...)

You say there is no soul, as if you could actually prove that assertion. Have a nice day today.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have seen it all. Even what i didn't personally live with, i saw even that.

But we've not met. So the logic fails.

 

[Extraneous]

But we've not met. So the logic fails.

We met now. Ive seen it all

 

[Chris B]

I've seen it fail many times.

Absolutely agreed. I've had friends and colleagues fall to suicide when no cure or adequate treatment was found in time.
But that doesn't support "They cannot cure mental illness " as a flat, universal statement.
I'm pretty certain you must be aware of that category of thought-error.
Universal statements ("everybody... ", "all X are Y", etc.) need careful examination before being either accepted or deployed, I suggest.

Chris

 

[durangodawood]

I will never die.

Even Jesus died, on the cross, according to Christian belief.
Why wont you ever die?

 

[Extraneous]

Even Jesus died, on the cross, according to Christian belief.
Why wont you ever die?

My body will die but i will not.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Like when your mother says she loves you?

No.

More like "I believe leprechauns are real. Why? Because I 'feel it'... "

 

[Chris B]

You say there is no soul, as if you could actually prove that assertion. Have a nice day today.

No.
I said
"...While I strongly consider that the concept of a soul is itself an illusion.
(For many popular uses of the term: it's rather variable in definition. See also "spirit".)"

That's twice I've seen you jump to a universal and absolute understanding of a more open and non-universal position, situation or statement.
If you are not aware of this tendency, then you may need a "heads up" on how often you employ it.

 

[Extraneous]

Absolutely agreed. I've had friends and colleagues fall to suicide when no cure or adequate treatment was found in time.
But that doesn't support "They cannot cure mental illness " as a flat, universal statement.
I'm pretty certain you must be aware of that category of thought-error.
Universal statements ("everybody... ", "all X are Y", etc.) need careful examination before being either accepted or deployed, I suggest.

Chris

Not really flat, no. Its just a fact, they cannot understand mental illness, and they cannot understand the soul either. All they do is to observe the brain while pumping drugs into people. That's really all they know. They treat effects but have no idea about the cause. Even when they say that chemical imbalance is the cause, they are still wrong because that imbalance is just another effect, its not a cause. They have no idea about cause.

 

[Extraneous]

No.

More like "I believe leprechauns are real. Why? Because I 'feel it'... "

You believe in robots.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You say there is no soul, as if you could actually prove that assertion. Have a nice day today.

Shifting the burden of proof again... Also, he didn't actually make that claim...

The "soul" is a thing that is claimed to exist by theists.
Theists have a burden of proof to support that claim.
Theists fail to live upto that burden of proof.

As a result that claim is rejected.

The rejection of a claim, on the grounds of not having the evidence to accept it, is not a claim by itself.

You should learn the difference.
On several occasions throughout this thread have you show to not understand the difference, with comments like "well, you can't disprove god..."

 

[Chris B]

Not really flat, no. Its just a fact, they cannot understand mental illness, and they cannot understand the soul either.

To quote you...
"... as if you could actually prove that assertion."

A level playing field, if you please.

 

[Extraneous]

Shifting the burden of proof again... Also, he didn't actually make that claim...

The "soul" is a thing that is claimed to exist by theists.
Theists have a burden of proof to support that claim.
Theists fail to live upto that burden of proof.

As a result that claim is rejected.

The rejection of a claim, on the grounds of not having the evidence to accept it, is not a claim by itself.

You should learn the difference.
On several occasions throughout this thread have you show to not understand the difference, with comments like "well, you can't disprove god..."

well you cant disprove God.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I believe my existence as an individual and an intellectual being, are worthy of a more than such elementary observation.

You can believe whatever you wish.
But beliefs do not necessarily reflect reality.

And your emotional need to be more then "just" your brain or your body have no effect on reality either.

The fact of the matter is, that your brain IS you, as is shown every day in neuroscience.
The evidence suggest that what people call the "mind" or the "soul" is actually the neural network in the material brain.

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not really flat, no. Its just a fact, they cannot understand mental illness, and they cannot understand the soul either. All they do is to observe the brain while pumping drugs into people. That's really all they know. They treat effects but have no idea about the cause. Even when they say that chemical imbalance is the cause, they are still wrong because that imbalance is just another effect, its not a cause. They have no idea about cause.

....therefor the "cause" is a supernatural ghost/spirit/soul hiding in the brain that can't be shown to be real?