First Showing of "The Passion" Today

[The Thadman]

Many theaters are having a preliminary showing of The Passion today at around 7:00 PM-ish. Does anyone have tickets yet?

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

 

[CeCe]

One of the theaters here is doing that in conjunction with the local Christian radio staion and my church. But it's strictly one of those "call and be # (whatever) and win" situations. Way too risky for me. So I just bought tickets on Friday.

 

[The Thadman]

One of the theaters here is doing that in conjunction with the local Christian radio staion and my church. But it's strictly one of those "call and be # (whatever) and win" situations. Way too risky for me. So I just bought tickets on Friday.

~Nods~ I'm going to be seeing it on Thursday. I can't wait!

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

 

[Sephania]

I saw it last night and was gravely disappointed in finding a promise not kept by Mr. Gibson.







Because of a myriad of concerns expressed by Jews, both believers and unbelievers he had promised weeks ago to put in a little blurp at the end of the movie. A very small attempt to possibly dissuade some from getting the 2000 year old propagandistic idea that the Jews and only the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus, and he didn't even follow through with this, and one has to wonder why.







This movie portrayed those in the lead Roman authority as warm hearted and compassionate and the Jewish head authority as cold-blooded without a caring bone in his body, and all this was spoken without any words, translated or not, but could be understood in any language.







Prayer is needed for Jews around the world in the days ahead.

 

[Andre]

I'm going to watch it tomorrow night (wednesday) with a group of about 40 people from my church, I bought the picture book of the movie yestarday and I stoped about halfway, I didn't want to ruin the movie and I was already crying...
I took a peek at one of the last pages and it really shocked me, take paper tissues if you are going to watch it.

 

[simchat_torah]

Because of a myriad of concerns expressed by Jews, both believers and unbelievers he had promised weeks ago to put in a little blurp at the end of the movie. A very small attempt to possibly dissuade some from getting the 2000 year old propagandistic idea that the Jews and only the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus, and he didn't even follow through with this, and one has to wonder why.

I have not heard any such thing anywhere in the media. Are you sure you're not simply relying upon rumors?

This movie portrayed those in the lead Roman authority as warm hearted and compassionate and the Jewish head authority as cold-blooded without a caring bone in his body, and all this was spoken without any words, translated or not, but could be understood in any language.

Are you sure you saw the right movie?

Your opinion of Gibson's portrayal of the Jews is up for debate, however, there is absolutely no way anyone can say that the romans were portrayed as 'warm hearted' in this film. I'm not sure if you were joking or trying to trick us here on the forums. Every critic says that the roman guards were portrayed as absolute savage monsters, very very ruthless and ferocious. This simply isn't up for debate, its fact.

Again, I hope for the better... that you saw the wrong movie and aren't purposefully trying to decieve the audience here.

shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

Prayer is needed for Jews around the world in the days ahead.

as always.

 

[simchat_torah]

from the associated press:

A top Vatican official who met with Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, said Wednesday that no such statement was planned. U.S. Archbishop John P. Foley, who heads the Vatican's social communications office, again praised the film, "The Passion of the Christ," and said he found nothing anti-Semitic in it.

Foley said he had told Foxman that he had found nothing in the film that could be interpreted as anti-Semitic. "Certainly there are some Jews who call for punishment for Jesus," Foley said. But he said the Romans too were depicted harshly.

from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Father Hallinan, perhaps facetiously, claimed that the film focuses too much on Roman responsibility. "Unsophisticated people viewing the film will see Romans as cold, heartless people. Italians everywhere should be on guard and report anti-Italian sentiments immediately. I wouldn't be surprised at all if anti-Italianites started burning down Italian restaurants and randomly attacking anyone whose name ends in a vowel, and when they do, it will be Mel Gibson's fault" he seethed. No other Christian or Jewish group takes such charges seriously however; there is currently no evidence of anti-Italian hatred being stirred up by the movie.

 

[CeCe]

I'm going to watch it tomorrow night (wednesday) with a group of about 40 people from my church, I bought the picture book of the movie yestarday and I stoped about halfway, I didn't want to ruin the movie and I was already crying...
I took a peek at one of the last pages and it really shocked me, take paper tissues if you are going to watch it.

If that's the book with the foreward by Mel Gibson, I got something in the mail about that. I may have to buy it.

I bought one of those "purse packs" of kleenex for that very reason. Still have a few more days to wait. It was sold out the first few days. Let us know what you thought.

 

[Andre]

If that's the book with the foreward by Mel Gibson, I got something in the mail about that. I may have to buy it.

I bought one of those "purse packs" of kleenex for that very reason. Still have a few more days to wait. It was sold out the first few days. Let us know what you thought.

Yep, that's the book. I think it'll be a great tool to refresh the memories of the movie after we watch it. It has some nice pictures.

I'll let you guys know how it goes tonight.

 

[P_G]

Alas I must wait till after sundown Saturday to see it!

I am preaching tonight Rev. 18:1-8, Jos 1:5-9 and Jos. 3:5-14
Worship team practice tommorow night (I play blues harmonica)
Shabos service on Friday
Saturday - Shabbat

But I do think it is cool that Y'shua has been on the front page of the newspaper like every day for 2 weeks now!

And I am very glad that the movie is as graphic and gory and violent as people say that it is. It's time that people in the church woke up and realized the true extent of the effect of their sins on Messiah.

You know I think a strong argument could be made that our sin always has that brutal effect on Ha'Shem. Our sin injures Him. It is offensive and painful to Him.

Much Love and
May the movie profoundly affect your walk

Pastor George

 

[Sephania]

I have not heard any such thing anywhere in the media. Are you sure you're not simply relying upon rumors?

If they are rumors then my two friends who are Messianic Rabbi's must be spreading them. Mr. Gibson in reaction to the concern over outbreaks of anti-Semitism pledged to add at the end of the movie this statement:

“ The Roman Empire crucified more than 800,000 men, but only one came back from the grave”
this may not be the exact quote but it was on that order. I can’t find the paper I had this on, but we all waited through all the credits (which by the way there weren’t too many Jewish names to be found, except when the Law firm for the film was rolled) Needless to say we were all disappointed and concerned, to say the least when it did not appear.

Are you sure you saw the right movie?

Pretty sure, I still have the ticket stubs from the tickets given me by my Rabbi friend, the local news van was there and from what we were told in the theatre we were but a few hundred in the whole state that got to see it on Monday.

Your opinion of Gibson's portrayal of the Jews is up for debate, however, there is absolutely no way anyone can say that the romans were portrayed as 'warm hearted' in this film. I'm not sure if you were joking or trying to trick us here on the forums. Every critic says that the roman guards were portrayed as absolute savage monsters, very very ruthless and ferocious. This simply isn't up for debate, its fact.

Firstly I did not come here for debate but to warn, I see that has not been welcomed. Secondly, my opinion of how the Roman authority ( Pilate) ( I did not say guards) was portrayed was confirmed when our group was talking in the snack bar afterwards in the movie theatre and one of our group ( A prominent Jewish Psychiatrist) heard what I said about the blatant juxtaposition of the eyes of Pilate and Caiaphas and agreed with me. Be assured the lackeys in the Roman army were brutal beyond belief, but not the one that was over them and that is what my concern was about. I did not come here to joke or trick anyone; to me this is no laughing matter. I have been opposed to this movie since day one, and still seem to stand alone in my opinions but will continue to pray.

Again, I hope for the better... that you saw the wrong movie and aren't purposefully trying to decieve the audience here.



shalom,



yafet

Sir this is the second time you have accused me of lying, or more accurately , purposefully trying to deceive. I will forgive you as he did, you know not what you are saying, nor to whom you are saying it to, and I will leave it at that.





Good day.

 

[simchat_torah]

Mr. Gibson in reaction to the concern over outbreaks of anti-Semitism pledged to add at the end of the movie this statement:

“ The Roman Empire crucified more than 800,000 men, but only one came back from the grave”

If that promise was made, and then I'd like to see where Mr. Gibson made this promise. Otherwise, we all on this forum can chalk it up to another rumor.

I guess its your move now...

Quote:

Are you sure you saw the right movie?

Pretty sure, I still have the ticket stubs from the tickets given me by my Rabbi friend, the local news van was there and from what we were told in the theatre we were but a few hundred in the whole state that got to see it on Monday.

Ok, I was just checking... because your statements were so radically different than what is actually shown on screen.

Sir this is the second time you have accused me of lying, or more accurately , purposefully trying to deceive.

I call them as I see them. Someone makes claims that are radically different than what's on screen there's only one of a few options:
1) The person saw the wrong movie.
-Well, you have stated otherwise, so I guess we can toss this option out the window.
2) You fell asleep, forgot part of the movie, or are confused.
-You don't seem to express this as an option, so this leaves us with one possibility left:
3) The person is purposefully deceiving the audience they addressing.
-hmmm... well, this seems to be the only option left, so I guess everyone can make the call as they see it.

Now, again, I will restate that the interpretation of the portrayal of the Jewish people in the film is open to debate, however, to say the Romans in the film were portrayed as warm hearted and compassionate is simply wrong.

I will grant you that it is debateable concerning the Jewish "authority" was quite cold and calculating. What many people seem to forget is that the people who loved Y'shua, the man who carried his cross, his disciples, his mother, his father, those who proclaimed their loyalty to him, and nearly all of his believers... were Jewish. So, while the 'lead authority' of the Jews may have been without heart, this does not qualify as antisemitism because of the overwhelming Jewish prescence that is portrayed in a positive manner. If you focus soley upon the leadership of the Jews, then yes... one may argue to this point, though I'd strongly disagree.

However, to say the roman authority is portrayed as 'warm hearted' and 'compassionate' is flat out wrong. The Roman authority acts barbaric, sadistic, and downright evil. The flogging scene alone, which the Roman authority oversaw, lasted 15 minutes. I could go on and on, listing citation after citation concerning the portrayal of the Roman leadership/government by leading movie reviewers who would state just the same.

Shalom,
Yafet

 

[Sephania]

I didn't realize that you had already seen the movie, I guess we both saw something different. My concern here is for any outbreak of Anti-semitism because of this movie, I must say it is rather disconcerting to find that you are challenging me on that , especially in this forum. I am sure that Mr Gibson had he known your lean towards his portrayal might have used you on his satallite interview a few weeks back.

 

[ShirChadash]

I have heard many times that Pilate is portrayed in the movie as gentle, kindhearted, disposed toward Yeshua , etc. It does definitely concern me that Pilate might be portrayed this way. Pilate was anything but kindhearted, compassionate, gentle!

He had recently returned from being called back to Rome where he was chastened for crucifying Jews too readily, and Rome was concerned that Pilate's incredible cruelty would eventually cause uprisings among the Jews, because his actions had been so over-the-top. The only reason Pilate said he found no guilt in Yeshua, the only reason he washed his hands of Yeshua's blood, the only reason he made the people ask for whom they wanted to be released (Yeshua haMoshiach or Yeshua Barrabbas), FIRST, was because he didn't want it to look like he was back after his same old ways of Jew-killing right after he had been warned to tone it down. Pilate was making sure that the people (who had extolled Yeshua only days before when He came into the city) would not rise up against him if he had anything to do with the popular Rabbi's death. It was nothing more than political maneuvering that Pilate verbally hesitated to put Yeshua to death.


Zayit, I am trying hard to reserve making any determinations in my heart about the film, until I see it (which won't be anytime soon since I live in bumbledink podunk-town), but I have serious concerns about the movie, nonetheless.

I too would like to see where Mel Gibson agreed to put the disclaimer on the ending of the movie. My understanding is that he refused, and I find it despicable... that alone is enough reason for me to doubt his intentions toward Jews -- a simple disclaimer that would have not compromised his film, nor its integrity one little bit... The fact that MG didn't put the disclaimer in makes it very clear to me: he doesn't care one whit whether even one instance of anti-semitic behavior could be spurred by his film.

 

[ubermandy]

Because of a myriad of concerns expressed by Jews, both believers and unbelievers he had promised weeks ago to put in a little blurp at the end of the movie. A very small attempt to possibly dissuade some from getting the 2000 year old propagandistic idea that the Jews and only the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus, and he didn't even follow through with this, and one has to wonder why.

In the interview with Diane Sawyer, she asks him if he would put a postscript at the end of the film. His response was, "Well, that assumes that there is something wrong with my film for me to do that, and I don't think there is."
I have the interview saved on TIVO. Its at the 24 minute mark.

Mandy

 

[Henaynei]

I have found a couple of references where it was suggested, once by the ADL and once by a christian ministry, that Gibson put a disclaimer on the movie - but no evidence that he ever seriously entertained the idea.

Even rabbis are human.....

I am still debating if it is necessary for me to see this movie......

 

[simchat_torah]

In the interview with Diane Sawyer, she asks him if he would put a postscript at the end of the film. His response was, "Well, that assumes that there is something wrong with my film for me to do that, and I don't think there is."
I have the interview saved on TIVO. Its at the 24 minute mark.

Just as I thought... based on a rumor.

*sighs*

 

[Sephania]

I guess it all depends on who he is talking to, Secular reporter or Christian. I found where I had gotten this "rumor". I've met Mike Evans and I don't think he is a crack pot, nor one to spread rumors. I believe that he is a seasoned reporter whose friend and co-worker David Dolan lives in Israel and loves the Jewish people, I couldn't ask for more, nor could I say that about Diane Sawyer or Mel Gibson.

By Mike Evans

January 29, 2004
WorldNetDaily.com

I was recently invited to a special screening of 'The Passion of the
Christ' in Dallas to make recommendations regarding the film. My
agent-attorney, Tom Winters of Tulsa, my pastor, who is an Assemblies of
God official, and 30 other leaders were also invited. At the end of the
screening, Mr. Gibson humbly asked if we felt the film could incite
anti-Semitism and, if so, what could be done to avoid it.

I explained to Mr. Gibson that the Crucifixion story has been used by
anti-Semites to feed and fuel Jew-hatred throughout history, and that
anti-Semitism has risen throughout the world to levels not seen since
the days of Hitler. I further stated that the film, in its present form,
could incite violence against Jews in the former USSR, Muslim countries
and Europe, and could even result in Jews being killed.

I related to Mr. Gibson that the Christian church in Germany supported
Hitler, and a major reason for that support was the belief that Jews
were suffering for their sin of crucifying the Savior. Oswald J. Smith
of the People's Church in Toronto, who visited Germany in 1936, said:
'Every true Christian in Germany is for Hitler. I know, for it was from
the Christians that I got my information, and right or wrong they
endorse Hitler.' I also told him that great numbers in the Muslim world
teach Hitler's evil myths to their children, even in the schools. This
is the reason it is so very important to correct this. Purely and
simply, the foundation of terrorism is firmly imbedded in bigotry!

Mr. Gibson listened intently, hung his head, and was deeply moved. 'What
can I do,' he asked? I responded, 'When the last scene ends go to black,
scroll these words across the screen: 'During the Roman occupation,
250,000 Jews were crucified by the Romans, but only One rose from the
dead.'

'By doing this,' I said, 'instead of feeding Jew-hatred, you will be
fighting it. You will be communicating the suffering of all Jews under
Roman occupation. By simply inserting this statement, those who desire
to use the film to incite hatred toward Jews will be deterred.

'Those who might use the movie to incite Jew-hatred would know that they
would be doing just the opposite – challenging the evil myths (that Jews
are cursed for crucifying Christ and are Christ-killers) taught
throughout history, and still today. In addition, 'The Passion of the
Christ' would be the first Jesus film produced to fight anti-Semitism by
telling the true story of Jewish suffering during the time of Christ.'

Mel Gibson became very excited, and said, 'Perfect! I will do it. Yes, I
will do it. I needed something for that spot anyway. This is it. I will
do it. Thank you.'

At the showing in Dallas, no one was given a legal form to sign, so I am
not bound to a confidentiality agreement. Why am I speaking out now?
Because the film was screened when I was in Orlando on Jan. 21 and 22. I
realized that leaders in the Jewish community were still extremely
worried about increased anti-Semitism because of the film.

I became convinced it was time to let the Jewish community know that Mr.
Gibson is very concerned, and is making a historic contribution to
combat anti-Semitism. Never before has any effort been made in any Jesus
film to correct the myths and misinformation propagated by Jew-hatred.


Also this from the Philadelphia Inquirer

A Gibson spokesman said final editing would be completed soon. Gibson has reportedly decided to delete the high priest's "blood curse" utterance. People also will be watching to see whether he follows a pastor's advice to add a line at the fade-out ("During the Roman occupation, 250,000 Jews were crucified by the Romans, but only One rose from the dead") to ease concerns about anti-Semitism.

Aish.com has backed up this statment by Mike Evans
http://www.aish.com/societyWork/society/Mel_Gibson_and_the_Jews.asp

So I guess the rumors do get around by more than just Rabbi's . Sorry for all the confusion and controversy.

Shalom

 

[Sephania]

I guess Mr. Gibson never got this letter either, or if he did , didn't give a whit to bother.


Thank Acclaimed Actor-Director Mel Gibson Now

Add your name to the group of 29,163 people who have already signed using the Internet!

Add your signature to our letter by filling in the form below the letter text, or print the letter, add your signature and ask your friends and family to sign as well, then fax it to the Jerusalem Prayer Team at (817) 285-0962.

Letter of Thanks to Mr. Mel Gibson
To Mr. Mel Gibson, Director of the Movie "The Passion of the Christ"


​

Dear Mr. Gibson,



As one who opposes anti-Semitism, I wish to thank you for producing "The Passion of the Christ." I pledge to pray for you and for the Jewish people. Since the film will be shown worldwide, I humbly appeal to you to insert a postscript:

During the Roman occupation more than one-quarter million Jews were crucified by the Romans, but only One rose from the dead.

Mr. Gibson, in doing this you would be communicating the suffering of the Jewish people under Roman occupation, so that those who desire to use the film to incite hatred toward the Jews would be deterred. This could well turn any controversy between Christians and Jews into compassionate understanding.

History records that Passion movies have been a tool used by anti-Semites. We support you Mr. Gibson, and "The Passion of the Christ." However, we want to make it difficult, if not impossible, for bigots to use this precious movie for evil purposes.

Since September 11, 2001, anti-Semitism has risen in Europe to a level not seen since the days of Hitler. It has risen in the former U.S.S.R., from where one million Jews fled in just over a decade; also 800,000 Jews have fled Muslim countries because of anti-Semitism.

We humbly ask forgiveness of the Jewish people for the Jewish blood that has been shed in the name of our Savior, and want to do all we can to ensure it doesn't happen again.

With this postscript, "The Passion of the Christ" would be the first Jesus film ever produced to fight anti-Semitism by telling the true story of Jewish suffering during the time of Christ.

​

http://tool.donation-net.net/entrance/enter.cfm?dn=1032&source=2018&CFID=4630841&CFTOKEN=97415652

And from the :United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism

We do not know the exact depiction of the Passion that will be presented in the final version of Mel Gibson’s film.

Numerous Christian and Jewish leaders have seen pre-release versions of “The Passion” and concurred that the version they saw was problematic for a variety of reasons including: the inclusion of a biblical passage closely associate with the charge of deicide, the nature of Jewish crowd scenes, skewed portrayals Roman and Jewish leaders, and reliance upon extra-biblical sources. It is possible, although highly unlikely, that Gibson may yet respond to earlier criticisms and edit the film. We will not know until the final version of the film is released if it contains each exact scene that caused concern. As a result, comments about the film at this time should be more general than specific.

It has been reported that, to deter charges of anti-Semitism, Gibson will now end the film with the statement: "During the Roman occupation, 250,000 Jews were crucified by the Romans, but only One rose from the dead."

Unfortunately, this statement does not appreciably alleviate the myriad concerns about a film that will be seen around the world for many years to come.