First Fruits? What is it?

[NoForMe]

And an AMEN to that, The spirit led me to that conclusion and as a result, I becgain to look at what I was doing and who i was doing it for. That made me step back and ask why, which in turn has revealed a lot. It's going to be hard leaving a church but I'm almost to the point of standing fast in my decision, I'm going to pray and continue to seek God's word, I must also trust and discuss with my wife.

 

[Rafael]

I can't imagine what first fruits has to do with the pastor. Jesus was the first fruit, and the day of Penecost was the harvest of the firstfruits where it was baked into a loaf by a priest and waved before the Lord as a wave offering. Yitzchak would know more about this, but I think that this represents the Church (the loaf). A seed, Jesus, had become a loaf, and the Chrch was born. The day of Penecost was fulfilled the day the Church was born and started with 3000 people.

 

[NoForMe]

So I went to church last night and Pastor began the First Fruits Teaching, He talks of abram bringing his first fruits and things like that, I really really disagree with the doctrine he is speaking of and last night I really had a hard time not getting up and walking out, He is talking purely in the old testament under the law. Can anyone tell me does this law still apply today? And why?

 

[breezynosacek]

Now, in order to do a thorough study of tithing and the first fruits one must do a study of the OT as that is the basis. But, he should also be showing the NT giving in context.

Teaching on this is not considered a false doctrine but good Bible study. Trying to enforce something taken out of context is wrong.

You said he is doing a study that is supposed to last over several weeks? Take notes during the service, pray for discernment. Ask the Lord to show you any error.

Otherwise, go ahead and leave.

 

[NoForMe]

I am praying and taking notes, It's not a study, it's something he's saying we are supposed to do. I understand your though, there is no harm in understanding what was done at that time, however, he is implementing it now, he wants us to hand him our first fruits, not give it to the church or anything like that, but to hand him our first fruits. And it is purely monitary he is speaking about.

 

[Yitzchak]

So I went to church last night and Pastor began the First Fruits Teaching, He talks of abram bringing his first fruits and things like that, I really really disagree with the doctrine he is speaking of and last night I really had a hard time not getting up and walking out, He is talking purely in the old testament under the law. Can anyone tell me does this law still apply today? And why?

The jewish holiday of shavaot which is also known as pentecost was to celebrate the harvest (first fruits) and also to celebrate the giving of the law at Sinai. Pentecost comes from the word for fifty because it is 50 days after passover. Anyway, the new law given by the Holy Spirit who writes it upon our hearts was given at Pentecost which replaced the old law also given on pentecost(shavaot) at sinai. Both were also having to do with firstfruits. At pentecost, the first harvest of souls was ushered into the church. there is wonderful symbolism and in God's wisdom i am quite sure there are profound reasons for the timing of these things. Of course Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection from the dead. But one thing is quite clear also,which is that we live in the "church age" under the new covenant.We are not obligated to keep the jewish law which is revealed in the old testament.
With that said, there are principles to follow which are revealed in the old testament and expounded upon further in the new testament. First fruits is hardly a side issue , but it doesn't bring us under the old law again nor does it bully us into giving money to specific persons.

 

[NoForMe]

So your saying that what my pastor is teaching is not for the times we are in, and it seems as though financial gain may be a motivator? Because thats exactly what I feel. If we are not under the law of the jews then the pentecostal religion has a lot of doctrine which is not accurate for the times, is this correct?

 

[Yitzchak]

My personal view on giving rests upon the scripture found in 2 Corinthians 8: 9-15. In this passage Paul speaks of Jesus becoming poor that through His poverty we might become rich. he then goes on to discuss an equality among believers financially. he quotes Exodus 16:18 which speaks of the manna which God supplyed israel. Paul expounds upon the principle reveled in exodus. The first principle was of course that God is our ultimate source. Secondly, hording of resources is a sin and our excess is meant to be a blessing to others who have lack. One great sin of the church in our generation is hording by some which leaves many in the body with lack.
Concerning pastors and other given to full time ministry. It was established in the Old testament that tithes (plural because there was more than just one) and offerings be taken up to support those who had lack. In the case of levitical priests and others who worked full time for the Lord, they were unable because of their service to the Lord to earn money in the same way that those who were not serving full time could. The abundance of those who didn't serve full time went for the lack of those who did. Also , it was part of the law of tithes that widows and orphans and others who has legitimate lack ( not lazy who would not work but those who did their best but came up short) were supported by tithes. This is part of the great sin of our generation that pastors horde tithe money and don't share it with the poor among God's people.
So, bottomline, it is acceptable for your pastor to live off of the abundance of others given in tithes and offerings. it is not acceptable though for others who have lack to be neglected nor for the work of the ministry to be neglected so that the pastor can horde resources. The pastor has the same responsibility to give as any other christian in that respect.
We are under the law of love though and not under The old law which was rules and regulations. If you give from the heart and refuse selfishness and hording in your life. recognize God as the source and be a good steward over what he has given you, then the details will work themselves out just fine.

 

[Yitzchak]

So your saying that what my pastor is teaching is not for the times we are in, and it seems as though financial gain may be a motivator? Because thats exactly what I feel. If we are not under the law of the jews then the pentecostal religion has a lot of doctrine which is not accurate for the times, is this correct?

I believe the old has a purpose but it is not right for us to live as though still under the old. Pentecostal doctrine should expound upon principles taught in the old but not encourage us to live under the old system. My opinion is that there are some things taught in today's church by well meaning people which are not appropriate for our times. It is used out of ignorance at times and sometimes because "it sells' meaning it is useful to acomplish motivating people.

 

[NoForMe]

Well I don't agree with what he is asking me to do and it feels as though he wants the money, he is asking us to take him our first checks raise, and any money we recieve outside of work for the first time, this he calls is our first fruits and should be given to the pastor to bless the rest

 

[Yitzchak]

Well I don't agree with what he is asking me to do and it feels as though he wants the money, he is asking us to take him our first checks raise, and any money we recieve outside of work for the first time, this he calls is our first fruits and should be given to the pastor to bless the rest

This is just his creative way of raising money. You are clearly not commanded to do this in scripture and while it is not wrong for a pastor to be supported in the ministry , it is common practice to have an accountability of how the money given is spent.

 

[charligirl]

Whew!! I don't think I would be even sticking around long enough to hear his 'teaching' on this subject! Your pastor is way off line, teaching false doctrine and is abusing his position and the trust that the congregation has placed in him. That is manipulative and abusive and should not be tolerated.


Cry out to God for wisdom and His compassion and grace on this man, cry out for HIS will top be done in the church, before some who are not as smart as you are sucked in and badly damaged.

Your pastor seems to have no accountability - a dangerous thing. I would suggest you find another church fast!

 

[NoForMe]

Thats very true, his accountability he says is under God, but ours is supposed to be under him (pastor) So I agree. My wife and I had a nice conversation last night. I let her know that I am really feeling called away from that church. I learned a lot while I have been there and God has made my faith stronger. I have been praying and will continue to pray. I do understand being not being under the law but understanding the principles of the law. My pastor is asking for our first fruits to go to him, he wants a check, made out in his name, not the church. The money is clearly for him, to do what hw pleases, make a car payment, buy new golf clubs. I don't agree with this, and I will not stand by and hear on it. God is making it clear to me. I love knowing God's word. and hearing his voice. There is no greater Joy

 

[charligirl]

I actually go to a non-denominational church and my pastor also has no official covering or accountability as such, BUT he is humble, teachable and believes that he is accountable to his leadership and his congregation, and listens to (and acts on if need be) our concerns. He also has a network of other reputable pastors across the UK that he would go to for counsel and advice.

It works well, but then he is open and teachable, able to be real and honest in front of his leadership and is very transparent, personally and with the accounts!

 

[NoForMe]

I agree, Like I said I'm on my way out ther door. The problem is these days pastors think they are above the rest, and they are not. In God's eyes there gift is no more valuable than that of a helper in the Kitchen. We all work together to build his kingdom there is no I.

 

[Yitzchak]

Thats very true, his accountability he says is under God, but ours is supposed to be under him (pastor) So I agree. My wife and I had a nice conversation last night. I let her know that I am really feeling called away from that church. I learned a lot while I have been there and God has made my faith stronger. I have been praying and will continue to pray. I do understand being not being under the law but understanding the principles of the law. My pastor is asking for our first fruits to go to him, he wants a check, made out in his name, not the church. The money is clearly for him, to do what hw pleases, make a car payment, buy new golf clubs. I don't agree with this, and I will not stand by and hear on it. God is making it clear to me. I love knowing God's word. and hearing his voice. There is no greater Joy

I would not go to the extreme of accusing the man of being dishonest about money. He is in full time ministry and it is proper for those in the church to support pastors even if it is used for noraml expenses such as golf clubs. You do have aright though to be comfortable with how you give and this pastor is using unwise methods which are bound to arouse suspicions.

 

[NoForMe]

The bible does say the enemy will come as an angel of light. This last weekend I went to a mens conference and it was horrible, they were teaching that Jesus was really rich and that he was a millionaire, all so he could justify himself being rich, on top of that they were teaching that poor people are not annointed and that we should not give to the poor. It was pretty horrible, I've made the decision to leave the church I am at, There are some things that I am just not comfortable with, I want to praise God and concentrate on that, not on whether or not I am hearing the truth.

 

[Yitzchak]

The bible does say the enemy will come as an angel of light. This last weekend I went to a mens conference and it was horrible, they were teaching that Jesus was really rich and that he was a millionaire, all so he could justify himself being rich, on top of that they were teaching that poor people are not annointed and that we should not give to the poor. It was pretty horrible, I've made the decision to leave the church I am at, There are some things that I am just not comfortable with, I want to praise God and concentrate on that, not on whether or not I am hearing the truth.

I am glad to hear you are moving on to a better situation. It is sad when People get deceived to the degree that you described. There are lots of good churches out there.

 

[charligirl]

The bible does say the enemy will come as an angel of light. This last weekend I went to a mens conference and it was horrible, they were teaching that Jesus was really rich and that he was a millionaire, all so he could justify himself being rich, on top of that they were teaching that poor people are not annointed and that we should not give to the poor. It was pretty horrible, I've made the decision to leave the church I am at, There are some things that I am just not comfortable with, I want to praise God and concentrate on that, not on whether or not I am hearing the truth.

RIGHT CHOICE!!!

I think you also have a responsibility to cry out to God to intervene and for His will to be done, for God to remove this man from his position before even more people are damaged.

 

[NoForMe]

Thanks for all the advice and counsel, I've been praying and God has made it clear to me his decision, I'm just waiting for him to kick open the door, I need to make sure I leave in a good way, making sure not to burn any bridges. I'm just going to let them know that my season there has ended and I'm moving on to bigger opportunities. As the Lord leads!