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dlamberth

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It all comes down to a semantic argument.
I'd say that it comes down to an awareness experience. In this case, being aware of and feeling the life that wind gives air. That's a spiritual perspective.

.
 
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Catherineanne

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I'm not so sure that’s true. The ancients were very spiritually aware...much more than we are in this material world we live in today. So for example, for many in today’s spiritually aware world, wind gives air life very much in the same way as the breath of God gave a glob of dust life in Genesis.

.

The ancients recognised four elements; earth, air, fire and water. Not five.

However, you can believe whatever you like; it doesn't bother me.
 
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Catherineanne

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Angry no, upset perhaps, confused most definitely, why would a perfectly rational woman like you need the comfort of a mythical god? what happened?

It is called 'vocation', otherwise 'calling.'

It is nothing to do with needing comfort; quite the opposite if you look at Christ's example, in fact, and no conflict with rationality. Many thousands of perfectly rational people believe in God.

Sorry but I'm not, but of course there is no way I can convince you of that is there? and if it makes you feel better to think that I am then I am, however it would seem that it's you people who need all the help you can get what with all the clutching at straws with the hoping there's a god nonsense.

I am not interested in being convinced of anything; frankly it is not my concern. You are perfectly free to be who you are, and believe whatever you want to believe.

It is not I who am clutching at straws, however. :)
 
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Catherineanne

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One thing I do think is certain to happen, the more complicated the world and life becomes the more people will turn to religion, for all the wrong reasons perhaps but they will still seek out a world away from this one, an uncomplicated life and peace of mind can be a big draw, the Amish way will appeal to quite a few people.

I think you have Christianity rather confused.

Christ came into this world to sit down to dinner with tax collectors and other assorted sinners, not to provide an easy escape for anyone from anything. Christians are not called to sit in a church 24/7, contemplating eternity. We are called to get out into the world, and get our hands dirty by getting alongside the outcast, the lonely, the rejects of this world. Certainly there is peace of mind in knowing that, whatever our ultimate destination, this is the right way to live. But that does not mean that we do not have the same worries that other people have.

I can't speak for other people, but it seems to me there is no such thing as an uncomplicated life, for believers or unbelievers.
 
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Catherineanne

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That was the figurative point I was trying to hit. Wind does play an important role in the material manifestation, whereas still air is simply still. It all comes down to a semantic argument.

Is water in a glass different from water in a river?

:)

In Judaism, interestingly enough, the two are not the same. Flowing water has the ability to be used for ritual purification. Still water does not. Which is probably why the water is poured over a baby's head in baptism, because this ritual is a direct descendant of Jewish ritual purification.

Other than that, however, the two are pretty much the same, just as a train that is moving at 100mph is still a train.

The factor that seems to be making a difference would seem to be energy, in all cases. But the elements themselves do not change.
 
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yamin

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Is water in a glass different from water in a river?

:)

In Judaism, interestingly enough, the two are not the same. Flowing water has the ability to be used for ritual purification. Still water does not. Which is probably why the water is poured over a baby's head in baptism, because this ritual is a direct descendant of Jewish ritual purification.

Other than that, however, the two are pretty much the same, just as a train that is moving at 100mph is still a train.

The factor that seems to be making a difference would seem to be energy, in all cases. But the elements themselves do not change.

I agree.
 
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Dragons87

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To be perfectly honest I return because I am facinated to read what nonsense some people here will come up with next, some of them must truly live in a world of dreams populated with angels and spirits and of course Satan, it's all facinating stuff.

I often sit here and wonder what kind of an upbringing some of them had, I also feel sorry for them, I know I have no need to feel sorry for them because they are happy in the little worlds they have created for themselves, they feel protected and loved and above all blessed to have found the one true religion, as do everyone of every religion on earth.

Fascination with something I just can not comprehend brings me back time after time, I just can not understand why people would want to be like it.

Are you sure that in addition to your fascination you're not getting some sort of satisfaction from a self-built sense of superiority through belittling others?
 
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awitch

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Who knows? it could well be, but I don't think so, I was asked why and I said why, if that's belittling then I'm sorry.

Didn't realize it was belittling? And you said WE live in our own little worlds?
 
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Dragons87

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Who knows? it could well be, but I don't think so, I was asked why and I said why, if that's belittling then I'm sorry.

Okay. Apology accepted.

So you tell me why some people need to live their lives dreaming of an all powerful being that's invisible? what's wrong with them and what are they looking for? who put the ideas into their heads in the first place? and why?

Lol. Where do I start? Obviously such people (as I) see that there is something wrong with themselves. In fact I see that there is a lot of stuff that's wrong about me. And perhaps they realise that what they can see can't help them with the problems they have.

And what are these things we can see? Won't they rise and fall? What is beauty worth? How long will a flower stay beautiful for? Money? Inflation will do away its value unless you strive to keep its value. Families and friends? They die, they leave, they fall out with you.

Tell me one thing you can see but won't disappoint, or leave, or wither, that you can place your trust in forever. When nothing that is visible is trustworthy, yes, it is very tempting to trust in something invisible.

Maybe reading my testimony (by clicking on the link in my signature) may help you understand why one person (i.e. me) was desperate enough to trust something I cannot see.

Mind you: blind people can't see, yet despite not being able to see you most of them can probably converse and even build a relationship with you without ever being able to ascertain by sight whether you're real or not. Although are you literally invisible to them, it doesn't affect their belief in your existence and ability to get to know you. So why must our inability to see God automatically mean that God doesn't exist? The blind cannot see you. Does it mean you don't exist? Can't the reason why we can't see God is because we're blind to God?
 
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Greg1234

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who put the ideas into their heads in the first place? and why?
Don't start with the "ideas in the head". Start with the head. It was created. You don't drop anything when you log off. It is your ability to log off, which is the fundamental aspect, and that which you cannot drop.
 
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Robban

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If it,s a sunny day, I know it,s sunny because I can see the sun.
If it,s a rainy day, I know it,s raining because I can see the rain.
If it,s a windy day, I know it,s windy because I can see that the wind sets things in motion, but the wind itself I cannot see.
 
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Catherineanne

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To be perfectly honest I return because I am facinated to read what nonsense some people here will come up with next, some of them must truly live in a world of dreams populated with angels and spirits and of course Satan, it's all facinating stuff.

I often sit here and wonder what kind of an upbringing some of them had, I also feel sorry for them, I know I have no need to feel sorry for them because they are happy in the little worlds they have created for themselves, they feel protected and loved and above all blessed to have found the one true religion, as do everyone of every religion on earth.

Fascination with something I just can not comprehend brings me back time after time, I just can not understand why people would want to be like it.

I do so love being patronised. ^_^

Here it is again; our faith is not a need, or a want, or an inadequacy. It is a calling.

Meanwhile, here is a challenge for you. Read all 12,000 odd of my past posts, and find anywhere that I claim to have found the 'one true religion', and I will eat my Bible. I think you will find that I say rather that we all see as through a glass darkly, and that no one faith has a monopoly on truth.

I advise you to throw away your rather puerile preconceptions, and try to ask us what we believe, rather than telling us. You may be pleasantly surprised.
 
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Catherineanne

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So you tell me why some people need to live their lives dreaming of an all powerful being that's invisible? what's wrong with them and what are they looking for? who put the ideas into their heads in the first place? and why?

I think you will find that those questions are off topic on this thread. Perhaps you would like to start one of your own?

The subject here is the ability or not of fire to desecrate, and it would be nice to revisit that.
 
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Catherineanne

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Learn to live with the fact that one day you are going to die, don't dwell on it just face the fact, after all you're not alone, every one and everything will be doing it right behind you.

I have absolutely no problem with death or with dying. If I had the choice, I would happily enter eternity tomorrow, or tonight even. Christians do not fear death; we look forward to it.

Meanwhile, we live in exile here on earth, and do the best we can to follow Our Lord in the process.

Nothing whatever to do with being afraid of anything.
 
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Dragons87

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I will respond one last time, and then return to Cath's original thread on fire...

There are things wrong with every living person on this planet, so what else is new? what ever you think is wrong with you is nothing when compared to some one else, think what it must be like to be a street orphan in a south American city where even the police want to rape you or shoot you.

Yes, I do think about that from time to time. That's why I thank God for the peace and security he has given me, and also do my best to give up what I have to the less fortunate.

It also means that whatever you think is wrong in life is nothing compared to me. I haven't criticised the way you deal with what's wrong in your life, so why criticise mine?

THAT'S LIFE... every thing that lives dies eventually, some lives only last a day while other last for hundreds of years, the only thing they all have in common is that they will eventually die, each and every one of them.

I absolutely agree. Yet I also hope for something that is beyond all this. I have hope. What do you have that's comparable?

Nothing lasts forever, nothing, but not every thing let's you down, a dog won't let you down, if you have children you will more than likely let them down by dying before they do.

A dog and children will very much have the potential to let one down.

'It's tempting to trust in something invisible'?? what are you a child? do you still need an invisible friend to get you through the difficult parts? learning to cope with life and what it can bring is what growing up is all about, by the time you think you have it sorted you die.

Indeed I am a child. Can't you see I'm only 23? I am very much learning, not just to cope with life, but to excel in it. I'm not satisfied with merely coping - I want to succeed, and I've already got my path set before me.

Life is not fair, some people have love and no money, others have money and no love, the lucky ones have a lot of love and enough money.

Agreed. But in God I have everything I need. Unless you can say that you've got everything you need, I don't see why you believe my belief is inferior to yours. Mate, I've got everything I need. What do you have that's comparable?

You can talk back to blind people, they can touch you to see if you are real, they can smell you, for them the only thing they can't do is see you.
If you are going to start believing that just because you can't see something it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, where do you draw the line?
do you say to yourself, 'I want this to exist so I will believe in it, but I don't want that to exist so I won't believe in that?' why do you need to fool yourself anyway? why don't you just live your life, change the things you don't like if you can but if you can't then learn to live with them.

Don't let your logic jump around too much. Let's explore the concept a little bit more. If you don't need all your five senses to prove that something exists, what is the minimum number of senses you need to prove that something exists?

Learn to live with the fact that one day you are going to die, don't dwell on it just face the fact, after all you're not alone, every one and everything will be doing it right behind you.

Yeah, I do that now. What's the difference between you and I?

I know I said this is my last irrelevant post in this thread, so you may have the last word (if Cath so kindly agrees). If your replies require counter replies, perhaps we should start a new thread.

*****

Meanwhile, fire.

Cath, didi you think this topic up in response to the Koran-burning threat?
 
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awitch

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All I can say is "Dream on" and I hope it all works out for you all.

I believe you've made your point.

Now back to the topic.

What's the stance on cremation in regards to fire's desecration/consecration properties?
 
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