Finding a denomination

Eva Quispe

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Hello, I am a non-Christian. I do not believe in the miracles of Jesus, nor am I certain of the existence of God. My spirituality is derived from my culture as opposed to a religion.

Although I was raised evangelical Christian, I connect to Saint Juan Diego, Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, and Tata Santiago. I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood or how Saints are uplifted in the church or through the gospel.

Reading another comment section, I connected to one specific comment through scripture (for the first time). I am hoping to find a denomination that honors these individuals, or will allow me to better connect with scripture.

Edit: I realize all denominations are intended to honor Jesus above all. At this point in my religious journey, I feel the need to connect to real life individuals and scripture. Before I can truly appreciate and connect with Jesus’ story.
 
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Sabertooth

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I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood or how Saints are uplifted in the church or through the gospel.
As defined in the Bible, a saint is any Born-Again Christian. The origin of the term "Christian" is found in the book of Acts [Acts of the Apostles 11:26]. The rest of the time, saints, disciples & believers were used interchangeably.
 
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Radagast

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Although I was raised evangelical Christian, I connect to Saint Juan Diego, Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, and Tata Santiago. I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood or how Saints are uplifted in the church or through the gospel.

Those appear to be specifically Catholic saints.

Kateri Tekakwitha, as I understand it, converted to Catholic Christianity at age 19, taking a vow of celibacy. Her name is taken from St Catherine of Siena, who she seems to have identified with (Kateri's spirituality is reminiscent of that of St Catherine of Siena; St Catherine of Siena is particularly honoured by the Dominican strand of Catholicism).

Experiencing hostility from her neighbours and adoptive family (she was an orphan), Kateri travelled to a Jesuit community near Montreal, where she died 5 years later. Her last words were, it is said, "Jesus, I love you."

The Catholic Church has always honoured people who make sacrifices for the sake of Jesus, particularly the sacrifice of women who choose to remain a virgin. The Catholic Church declared Kateri "venerated" in 1943, a "Blessed" in 1980, and a Saint in 2012.
 
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Radagast

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I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood

When the Catholic Church declares someone like Kateri a saint, they are expressing certainty that she is, in fact, in Heaven right now (along with many, many other people).

The feast day of St Kateri Tekakwitha is July 14. The prayer for the day is this:

O God, who desired the Virgin St. Kateri Tekakwitha to flower among Native Americans in a life of innocence, grant, through her intercession, that when all are gathered into your Church from every nation, tribe and tongue, they may magnify you in a single canticle of praise. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
 
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Radagast

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I am hoping to find a denomination that honors these individuals, or will allow me to better connect with scripture.

I would certainly you encourage you to read Scripture. The whole New Testament, especially. That is certainly the most important thing.

In the spirit of connecting with Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, might I also suggest this book by her namesake, St Catherine of Siena: Catholic Treasury | The Dialogue of St Catherine of Siena (it seems to show the kind of spirituality that inspired Kateri).
 
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Eva Quispe

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I would certainly you encourage you to read Scripture. The whole New Testament, especially. That is certainly the most important thing.

Reading the Old Testament is when I began to lose faith. The literal interpretations was one reason why I left the church.
Are there any podcasts, theologians, or commenters that have good analysis of the First Testament? (Preferably short clips)
One of my favorite political podcasts explains the cultural/moral significance of Judeo-Christian stories. If it wasn’t for his intellectual analysis, I don’t think I would try this hard to reevaluate Christianity
 
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Radagast

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I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood

Kateri is generally represented as holding the white lily that represents purity; the imagery echoes conventional pictures of her namesake, St Catherine of Siena.

4_17_kateri.jpg
siena-4.jpg
 
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Radagast

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Reading the Old Testament is when I began to lose faith.

The role of the Old Testament is complex; we read it in the light of the New, and the New Testament is certainly more important.

The Old Testament often has a symbolic role. The endless Jewish rules about ritual purity for example, are a picture of the problem of the impurity that comes from sin. Ultimately, the whole Old Testament points forward to Jesus.

If you have specific questions about aspects of the Old Testament, feel free to ask them here in "Exploring Christianity."
 
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Albion

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Hello Eva. After thinking on it for awhile, I doubt that there is a Christian denomination that fits well with what you've outlined for us.

There exist the more liberal denominations, of course, but their position isn't one of doubting Jesus or the reality of God.

And then there are a few like the Unitarian Universalist Association which is so broadminded that its membership these days is made up to a large extent of people who don't believe, aren't "exploring," and aren't what you'd probably think of as spiritually-minded but, rather, are committed to social activism with some sort of ethical emphasis.

But if there is to be any answer to your question about a denomination, it might be for you to try associating with one of the more liberal, mainline, non-judgmental Protestant denominations without immediately joining. So that list might include the United Church of Christ (formerly known as the Congregationalists) and The Episcopal Church.
 
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Radagast

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I am hoping to find a denomination that honors these individuals, or will allow me to better connect with scripture.

When you say "denomination that honors these individuals," that can only mean the Catholic Church.

However, when you say "allow me to better connect with scripture," that strongly suggests some kind of evangelical Protestant church. I don't know nearly enough about you to recommend something appropriate.

I repeat my suggestion of reading the Dialogue of St Catherine of Siena.
 
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I feel the need to connect to real life individuals and scripture. Before I can truly appreciate and connect with Jesus’ story.

May I suggest checking out the Christianity explored web site to find a church in your area that runs this course and to contact them.
If there is a course due to start, sign up for it as it will give you the opportunity to discuss and argue about different aspects of Christianity, as well as get to know some local Christians.

Otherwise may I suggest the coldcasechristianity web site or Lee Strobel's book the Case for Christ.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hello, I am a non-Christian. I do not believe in the miracles of Jesus, nor am I certain of the existence of God. My spirituality is derived from my culture as opposed to a religion.

Although I was raised evangelical Christian, I connect to Saint Juan Diego, Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, and Tata Santiago. I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood or how Saints are uplifted in the church or through the gospel.

Reading another comment section, I connected to one specific comment through scripture (for the first time). I am hoping to find a denomination that honors these individuals, or will allow me to better connect with scripture.

Edit: I realize all denominations are intended to honor Jesus above all. At this point in my religious journey, I feel the need to connect to real life individuals and scripture. Before I can truly appreciate and connect with Jesus’ story.

My apologies if this is a bit lengthy.

Historically canonical sainthood (those persons who are traditionally honored by having "Saint" prefixed to their name) are those whose memory has been preserved in the Christian Church on account of their lives of devotion to Christ. One isn't a saint because they are canonically termed "St. So-and-so", rather that honor is a memory and recognition of such a person as one of the saints, one of God's people whose lives exemplify the Christian life of devotion to Jesus Christ. How that "canonical" status is "done" depends on the church, specifically whether Roman Catholic or Orthodox. In Roman Catholicism there is actually a rather strict by the books procedure involving investigation, as to be recognized as a saint requires at least two verifiable and documented miracles attributed to the saint. Generally that process goes from being recognized as "blessed", then "venerable", then finally "saint". On the other hand, in the Orthodox Churches canonical sainthood is less bureaucratic, and a more organic process--it arises from the popular devotion and memory of Christian communities. If a person is being honored, and their honor holds among the Faithful themselves, then rather organically a recognition of canonical sainthood proceeds. To put it another way, in Catholicism it is a top-down approach, in Orthodoxy it is bottom-up.

Once we start talking about the various traditions and denominations of Protestantism, it gets fuzzier. As a rule, I am unaware of any broadly Protestant body that has any kind of process of canonical sainthood; in fact some Protestants completely eschew the whole idea of honoring the saints altogether. In my own Lutheran tradition we continue to remember and honor those who have traditionally been ascribed "St. So-and-so" which is why you'll see Lutherans often speak of St. Paul, St. Augustine, etc. But you won't, for example, see Lutherans talk about St. Martin Chemnitz, or St. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, though both Chemnitz and Bonhoeffer are profoundly important figures within Lutheran history and tradition. Even with Martin Luther himself we tend to simply refer to him by his pastoral or academic honorifics--Fr. Martin or Dr. Luther, never St. Martin Luther. The same is, best as I can tell, also true of the Anglican Communion, and other historic, traditional Protestants. Canonical sainthood is, generally speaking, just not that important within the broad tent of Protestantism, generally due to a fairly broad Protestant sense that saintliness isn't rooted in personal merit, but rather in divine grace: It is God who justifies and makes holy, and thus all who have been justified freely and have received the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ as a pure gift are saints, the saints who have come before us are worthy of honor, remembrance, and their memory should be preserved that we might imitate them in their imitation of Christ; but most Protestants (Lutherans included) do not engage in acts of personal devotion to the saints who have come before us in the same way that Catholics and Orthodox do.

That said, regardless of tradition or denomination, you'll find that it is impossible to disconnect the saints from faith in Jesus Christ; the saints are honored because they reflect and honor Jesus Christ.

In the Apostles Creed we speak of the "Communion of Saints", the unity of all God's people together as Christ's Church throughout all ages and all times, so that even those who have died bodily are alive and united together with us in Christ. As a single family belonging to God, from every generation, across the world, in which death has ceased to be a force of division between the living and the dead; for all who belong to Jesus are alive, whether alive in the body or in bodily death--even as we look forward to the day when we and all the dead shall be raised up bodily to that future life which is to come.

As far as what denomination you should seek out, that's a difficult question to answer.

From my own Lutheran perspective I would argue for a "come and see" approach, that is, visit a church, see what it's about, hear what is being said. While you are not a believing Christian you wouldn't be able to partake in, for example, the Eucharist in most churches (though it's not like there are going to be people asking to see your baptism certificate or something), you can still visit and experience the faith and worship of the Christian community. And that is the stuff that lay at the heart of Christian life and practice, the meeting place of God and man through His Word and Sacraments. That said, while I won't tell you what churches to visit or which to avoid because I am clearly biased, I will say that yes there are good churches and bad churches, there are very toxic churches out there and I encourage you to use your common sense and ability to detect red flags guide you to avoid those.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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1watchman

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Hello, I am a non-Christian. I do not believe in the miracles of Jesus, nor am I certain of the existence of God. My spirituality is derived from my culture as opposed to a religion.

Although I was raised evangelical Christian, I connect to Saint Juan Diego, Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, and Tata Santiago. I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood or how Saints are uplifted in the church or through the gospel.

Reading another comment section, I connected to one specific comment through scripture (for the first time). I am hoping to find a denomination that honors these individuals, or will allow me to better connect with scripture.

Edit: I realize all denominations are intended to honor Jesus above all. At this point in my religious journey, I feel the need to connect to real life individuals and scripture. Before I can truly appreciate and connect with Jesus’ story.


So, why then do you come to a Christian web site to tell us you don't want to "connect with the Jesus story"?
 
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John Helpher

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My spirituality is derived from my culture as opposed to a religion.

Would you mind elaborating on this?

I don’t understand what qualifies someone for sainthood or how Saints are uplifted in the church or through the gospel.

I think the Catholic church has formalized what it means to be a saint by referring to a checklist of qualifications, like performing 3, (presumably verifiable) miracles and a few other such hoops to jump through.

Whereas, in Jesus' way, a saint is someone who follows his teachings. You don't have to perform miracles; you just have to "walk in all the light that you have".

Reading another comment section, I connected to one specific comment through scripture (for the first time). I am hoping to find a denomination that honors these individuals, or will allow me to better connect with scripture.

Edit: I realize all denominations are intended to honor Jesus above all. At this point in my religious journey, I feel the need to connect to real life individuals and scripture. Before I can truly appreciate and connect with Jesus’ story.

It's actually pretty simple. If you want to be a Christian, then read the 4 gospels (a record of the life and teachings of Jesus) and make a note every time Jesus tells his followers to do this or don't do that. When you've finished reading through the 4 gospels, read back through the list you made and ask yourself if you want to practice those teachings. If you do, then you're a Christian. If you don't, then you're not a Christian. This will help you to immediately sort out what you want to do. If you don't want to practice Jesus' teachings, there's not much point in seeking out any denomination which purports to act in his favor or on his behalf.

Though truth be told, there's verrrry few people (let alone whole denominations) who believe there is any need to literally obey Jesus. If, after reading his teachings, you decide that you really do believe his teachings are worth following, you'll be in a small minority and it will be important for you to look for others who believe his teachings are worth literally obeying.
 
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1watchman

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Would you mind elaborating on this?

I think the Catholic church has formalized what it means to be a saint by referring to a checklist of qualifications, like performing 3, (presumably verifiable) miracles and a few other such hoops to jump through.

Whereas, in Jesus' way, a saint is someone who follows his teachings. You don't have to perform miracles; you just have to "walk in all the light that you have".

It's actually pretty simple. If you want to be a Christian, then read the 4 gospels (a record of the life and teachings of Jesus) and make a note every time Jesus tells his followers to do this or don't do that. When you've finished reading through the 4 gospels, read back through the list you made and ask yourself if you want to practice those teachings. If you do, then you're a Christian. If you don't, then you're not a Christian. This will help you to immediately sort out what you want to do. If you don't want to practice Jesus' teachings, there's not much point in seeking out any denomination which purports to act in his favor or on his behalf.

Though truth be told, there's verrrry few people (let alone whole denominations) who believe there is any need to literally obey Jesus. If, after reading his teachings, you decide that you really do believe his teachings are worth following, you'll be in a small minority and it will be important for you to look for others who believe his teachings are worth literally obeying.

That is partly true, BUT it is NOT just 'practicing those teachings' of Jesus. It IS RECEIVING the Lord Jesus into one's heart as their Savior; Lord of their life; and I add: 'making the Lord Jesus one's best Friend'. Certainly one ought to obey His words and directions, but such belief is not "the way, the truth, the life" spiritually, but as Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life; no man cometh to the Father but by me". Is that what you meant to say, friend?
 
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