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Find me an Absolute

Brimshack

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Can anyone here produce for me an absolute moral value? By that, I mean a moral value that:

1) …is precise enough to have definite consequences.
2) …is contingent on no context-specific assumptions, such that it's force could be off-set by changing those assumptions.

Adited to add: 3) …it should be expressed in the form of a statement inidcating how one ought or ought not to act.

Note: I am not entirely sure that such values do not exist, but I am completely unimpressed by theoretical arguments for absolutism. It doesn't concern me if there are absolute values which no-one knows. the question is are there values which can be shown to have such qualities, (more likely in my opinion) tend towards them.
 

Eudaimonist

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An absolute moral value would have to be an abstract moral principle that could be applied in any number of different contexts. I think the following qualifies.

The principle (or virtue) of Rationality

Human life is not a given; where there is life, there is risk to that life. Life needs to be protected and furthered through action -- actions which can either succeed or fail in this task. In order to nourish our lives, we need to act successfully in a way that is beneficial to us. If we select the wrong actions, we can hurt ourselves and imperil our lives. Since we are not born with the knowledge that we need to act well, and since we act within the context of reality, we need to use our rational minds to grasp reality as best as we are able. If we do this, we have the best chance of acting appropriately in the situation to achieve nourishing values. If we don't do this, we are likely to fail.

This principle applies to all contexts. It never helps us to dim our ability to understand what reality is really like. That would be like walking blindfolded across a highway. While we might survive some small amount of irrationality, the best policy is to turn up that light of reason. IOW, to make Rationality a personal moral principle.
 
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Magisterium

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Brimshack said:
Can anyone here produce for me an absolute moral value? By that, I mean a moral value that:

1) …is precise enough to have definite consequences.
2) …is contingent on no context-specific assumptions, such that it's force could be off-set by changing those assumptions.

Note: I am not entirely sure that such values do not exist, but I am completely unimpressed by theoretical arguments for absolutism. It doesn't concern me if there are absolute values which no-one knows. the question is are there values which can be shown to have such qualities, (more likely in my opinion) tend towards them.
Hey Brim, I've pointed out the error in your query.

The problem is that you've grouped together words which are incompatible in this context. The word absolute refers to the idea of needing no qualification or quantification. However, the very next word, "moral" refers to right and wrong. As you know, the entire idea of right and wrong must in fact be based upon some established standard. In that respect, anything moral is necessarilly context specific. That context being the standard of right and wrong itself. Finally, the word value. Value as it is used here, is necesarilly a precept based again upon some established standard or criteria.

Effectively, you're asking for something and at the same time ruling that thing out.
 
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TheOriginalWhitehorse

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Brimshack said:
Interesting suggestion Eudaimonist, but it is not a moral principle. It is a 3rd person description of moral behavior. And as such it does not determine what is right or wrong. Rather it is an attempt, however (In-)accurate to describe how that decision is made.

Philosoft wins.

Seek and ye shall find applies to anything. If anyone looks for a reason not to accept moral absolutes, they'll find what they're looking for. I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that those absolutes will go away. What I am saying is, God's law is clear enough to anyone who is seeking after Him. He operates on His own terms. Without submitting to those terms, we cannot find truth because it is His to offer at His pleasure.
 
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Blessed75

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Brimshack said:
Can anyone here produce for me an absolute moral value? By that, I mean a moral value that:

1) …is precise enough to have definite consequences.
2) …is contingent on no context-specific assumptions, such that it's force could be off-set by changing those assumptions.

Note: I am not entirely sure that such values do not exist, but I am completely unimpressed by theoretical arguments for absolutism. It doesn't concern me if there are absolute values which no-one knows. the question is are there values which can be shown to have such qualities, (more likely in my opinion) tend towards them.
I can't b/c everyone's idea of what is an absolute moral is different - what is moral to me may not be to you. So, that being said, I was really hoping to be the one with THE answer. Oh well - maybe next time. ^_^ :p
 
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Eudaimonist

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Brimshack said:
Interesting suggestion Eudaimonist, but it is not a moral principle.
Yes, it is a moral principle.

What does determine right and wrong for you from your philosophical perspective?
 
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Brimshack

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Magisterium: Your objections are a bit hasty. Asolute does NOT refer to a lack of quantification. Rather it refers to universal quantification. As to the notion that a moral or a value must be based on a standard (or even a context) I would agree. But contextualization is itself a variable phenomenon, and I am open to the notion that a moral principle would be articulated in terms of a sufficiently general context to be universal (in at least a practical sense). It is easy enough to play the absolutist/relativist game and make it n all-or-none decisio, but I think that has little to do with actual moral reasoning. In practice people state values (moral or otherwise) with varying degrees of scope, and while I am not interested in abstract promises that moral absolutes are out there in some sense, I am open to the possibility that at least some moral principles tend towards absolutism, in at least some practical sense.

Whitehorse: Interesting narrative, but you did not answer the question. I am not (as I thnk you may have been implying) looking for a way to avoid morality. Rather I was asking for an example of a moral principle that many here assure me does exist. I would submit that if all you can do is promise me that such a thing can be found indicates a high probability that you have not found it yourself. Otherwise, the fruits of your own search would have yielded an answer to the question.

Blessed: I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss morality as an entirely subjective enterprise. Moral values are learned I social contexts, communicated in social contexts, and used as means of negotioating with others. Morals are NOT entirely private. Nor are they simply a function of what people happen to believe. Methinks you kindness and open-mindedness may be getting the best of your here, and you have given up too easily. BTW: One ca reject the prospect of a universal without accepting personal judgement as the standard of right and wrong, which appears to be your tack.

Lyle: The Bible is a book. It is not a moral principle. I would entertain the notion that it might contain a moral principle, but since you are intent on blowig off the question, I assume that's a no-go.

Mason: The Bible certainly does have a lot of material that appears quite indecent to me, but I am open at least to the possibility that it contains some good moral precepts. So, let's not pre-empt any actual attempt to use it here. But of course, we have yet to see a serious effort toward that end in this thread.

Eudaimonist: I have already explained my objection, and there isn't much point in repeating it. I will be happy to respond if you would like to address the argument.
 
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Blessed75

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Brimshack said:
Blessed: I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss morality as an entirely subjective enterprise. Moral values are learned I social contexts, communicated in social contexts, and used as means of negotioating with others. Morals are NOT entirely private. Nor are they simply a function of what people happen to believe. Methinks you kindness and open-mindedness may be getting the best of your here, and you have given up too easily. BTW: One ca reject the prospect of a universal without accepting personal judgement as the standard of right and wrong, which appears to be your tack.
i'm too tired and lazy to come back with a witty comment............but love that you think i'm kind and open minded.........now THAT is a compliment. ;)
 
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