finances in marriage

[Tired77]

Hello everyone,

First time posting here and looking at getting some advice regarding finances within a marriage.
We have been married for almost 10 years and I've spoken with my wife on 3 to 4 different occasions about living within our financial means. In the beginning of our marriage my wife handled our finances, but a few years ago I took them over because she was causing us to fall further and further into debt due to her spending money we didn't have. Since then, I have put us on a budget that fits within our financial means. The problem i'm having is that she continuously spends more than what is allotted in our budget. I've tried talking to her about this and even suggested a separate account for her, but she did not want to do that because she feels that would be the foot in the door for possible separation. To be honest with you, i'm not a fan of separate accounts either, but at this point i'm running out of options. She constantly wants to buy things, or go out for dinner and i'm constantly telling her we can't afford it. A couple of days later I look into our account and I see she's bought something that we didn't even discuss. I've asked her to sit down with me and go over our budget decisions and to show her where extra money is being spent, but she has no interest in looking at it. Has anyone else gone through something like this and have some advice to offer?

 

[Athene]

It's probably guilt that stops her from going over the finances with you. She'll be aware that she's putting you in a bad financial situation, but by refusing to acknowledge the problem she can pretend it's not really there.

Separate bank accounts aren't the end of the world, you can still have a joint account, but separate ones for different purposes. It's called piggy banking. Your wife could have her own personal spending account and you could have another account for bills, another for Christmas and Birthdays etc, and your own personal spending account if you wanted.

 

[DZoolander]

Are you asking how you can stop her spending - or how you can get her to believe she should stop spending on her own....

Two very different things.

 

[Hetta]

TBH, I wouldn't ask her to have a separate account, I would take her name off the joint account and hand her the ATM card to her own account. You can tell her that when she runs out of money on her spending sprees, she is done for the month.

As for joint ventures - like eating out together - just a simple "no" should suffice.

 

[DZoolander]

^^^

That's the way to make her stop

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Frankly, telling someone "no" like a child is not going to change an attitude that underlies a behavior. You do that to children, not grown adults. Grown adults should be examining the values together to figure out where the discrepancy is. Why does she value spending more than saving? What is causing her to ignore the budget, knowing full well that the budget for the month is set and really can't be altered. These are key questions that go beyond just saying "no". Your wife isn't a child, and I'm not going to suggest you treat her as one.

So have that 'values' conversation with her. Find out what her values are as far as money is concerned, as well as clearly stating yours. Extras are nice to have, when they can be had. But sacrificing those things in the short term is a necessity, so that they can possibly be had later. Money expert Dave Ramsey has a saying that goes "Live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else". The meaning being that whatever you pay off now (i.e. debts, mortgage, savings, emergency fund, etc.) will pay off in the long run. Then those 'extras' can be enjoyed. Perhaps that's something she can keep in mind when she gets the urge to spend.

 

[Hetta]

Sometimes spouses need to hear 'no', particularly when they are abdicating responsibility and acting like children. Act like a child, get treated like a child.

 

[.chrys.]

Could you not handle the finances together on a monthly (or even twice-a-month) basis?

I have been handling the finances for our family for 20 years. It's been a struggle for us, too. I'd love it if we could do the finances together (as a family unit--our children are old enough to start seeing our situation). There simply never seems to be enough time though.

There would be a benefit to your wife having her own ATM card and credit cards that maybe you hadn't thought of: she can buy surprise gifts for you!

 

[ValleyGal]

ID is right - it could be an issue of conflicting values. You value saving and she values the freedom to make purchases without having to consult every time. I'd definitely suggest evaluating the values that drive each of your view on spending and saving.

In addition, though, I would go over the budget with her one more time. Let her see where her purchases did not fit into that budget and ask her where the money will come from to pay for those purchases. Let her also know that she is absolutely welcome to go ahead and make purchases outside your family budget, but she will need to find a way to make those purchases that does not come out of the family budget. Maybe she can find a part time job to make those purchases, or maybe she can sell something and use the money from it to buy something else.

While it is likely a values issue, it is probably just as much a boundaries issue.

 

[Tired77]

Thank you all very much for your insights. I spoke with her again on the matter and she has agreed to look over the budget with me, although very hesitant about it. I did say to her, in a nice way, that she can't continue spending this way or we're going to run into some serious financial problems. She agreed and we'll go over our budget tonight so she can see where our money goes. Thank you all again, and i'll keep you updated as to how it proceeds.

 

[bluegreysky]

I don't really have any advice because we're new at marriage and our finances are hurrible until a few more months from now...

But I will say that we have a code phrase.
My birthday is coming up, and I wanted to go to a particular restaurant.
He looked at his budget and he can't afford it. He can only afford for us to go to the one steakhouse that does a free dinner for the birthday person. It's a nice place, but I've been there plenty of times already. It's ok. It's still a nice place.
But let's say I started getting upset and whining. (I didn't that I remember). My husband would say "hey! Christmas cards!"
That's our code reminder phrase.

In 1984 when my parents got married, it was December and they didn't have much. So when Christmas came, they could only afford cards for each other. Not even one present.
And they were content with that.
So that phrase is a reminder that I or he should stop getting worked up because we really could get by with less and we both know it.

 

[akmom]

I think you're going to have to go with Hetta on this one. It's the only way to solve the problem, and debt is a problem.

Frankly, telling someone "no" like a child is not going to change an attitude that underlies a behavior. You do that to children, not grown adults. Grown adults should be examining the values together to figure out where the discrepancy is. Why does she value spending more than saving? What is causing her to ignore the budget, knowing full well that the budget for the month is set and really can't be altered.

Except that the reason is impulse control. Unless she has a terminal diagnosis she hasn't mentioned, or her purchases have investment potential, there is no logical reason to go into debt. So that conversation isn't likely to be revelatory. Why go through the charade?

I spoke with her again on the matter and she has agreed to look over the budget with me, although very hesitant about it.

You've backed her into a corner. The first time she hinted at separation, hoping you'd give up. Since you clearly didn't, she's playing the part again, hoping to evade your next step, which is separate accounts. Keep on eye on your credit. Sometimes spending is an addiction, and people go to great lengths to keep spending. A future act of desperation may be to take out credit cards you don't know about.

I'm not suggesting she's a bad person or unfit as a wife in any other way, and should still be treated with respect and as an adult. But if you know that her vice is finances, and she doesn't have that vice under control, it just makes sense to be firm and keep an eye on it. You can get your credit flagged so that you are alerted any time an inquiry is made on it. She doesn't have good coping mechanisms for this particular struggle, so she "buries her head in the sand," so to speak. All the more reason to make sure you don't do the same.

 

[DZoolander]

The talk about separation is just bizarre to me. Are you guys having other issues that might be bringing that into the picture?

If it's simply the spending, I'd come back with "No, separation isn't an issue or on the table. Your spending is."

 

[Hetta]

Yes, the thing about separation is simply emotional blackmail.

These were the things most troubling to me:

I've spoken with my wife on 3 to 4 different occasions about living within our financial means.

In the beginning of our marriage my wife handled our finances, but a few years ago I took them over because she was causing us to fall further and further into debt due to her spending money we didn't have.

The problem i'm having is that she continuously spends more than what is allotted in our budget.

I've tried talking to her about this

She constantly wants to buy things, or go out for dinner and i'm constantly telling her we can't afford it.

A couple of days later I look into our account and I see she's bought something that we didn't even discuss.

I've asked her to sit down with me and go over our budget decisions and to show her where extra money is being spent, but she has no interest in looking at it.

She bungled the budget in the first place. He took it over. He has told her what the budget is. She ignores this and "wants" to buy things/eat out and when he refuses, she goes and does it anyway. IOW, she isn't willing to hear what the limitations are and doesn't want to abide by their financial plan. When all else fails, she throws in emotional blackmail using the boo word "separation."

I stand by my original assessment. As she won't act in a mature way - she won't listen to their financial limitations, and she won't discuss them - then give her an allowance. When she tries to get through her first month on whatever her budget is, maybe that will be a wake up call.

I really, really can't emphasize enough that people who act in this manner are being deeply destructive. If she has some kind of problem with compulsive spending, maybe not being able to act on her compulsions will bring this to light. Maybe she'll just realize that being treated like a teenager is not fun, and she needs to act like an adult so she can be treated like an adult.

I'm repeating myself now so I'll stop.

 

[ValleyGal]

Whether she has been respectful or not does not absolve him of the responsibility to still be respectful. He should not just start treating her like a child just because some people might think she behaves like one. To me, there is no indicator that she is behaving like a child. And even if she did, it's no reason to be disrespectful towards her. There are other more respectful ways of doing boundaries.

If there have been threats of separation, the OP might want to put a boundary on that one, too....like take her up on it - or at the least tell her that the next time she threatens separation he will take her up on it.

 

[DZoolander]

Well, my read of the original post (w/respect to separation) isn't so much that she was threatening separation...but rather feeling that once you start down the road of separating assets/etc...you've already got one foot in the door (and seems like you're setting yourself up for it).

I could be wrong - but that's what I got from it... I didn't necessarily get that she was threatening separation if he made separate bank accounts. If that were the case - if I were him - I'd have taken her up on it that very instant.

 

[contango]

TBH, I wouldn't ask her to have a separate account, I would take her name off the joint account and hand her the ATM card to her own account. You can tell her that when she runs out of money on her spending sprees, she is done for the month.

As for joint ventures - like eating out together - just a simple "no" should suffice.

This is good.

When my wife and I first married she had virtually no financial sense, and for a time the result was that I ate the cheapest options I could find at my staff canteen, knowing even as I did that she was probably having lunch out in one of the many restaurants in town for no reason other than she felt like it.

So we set up an account for her, which had her financial "allowance" in it, and when it was gone that was it. When she started working her salary was paid into it, and her notional share of the bills came out of it.

I also gave her a credit card with a high credit limit on it on the strict understanding it was for emergencies only. She knew very well that if she was in a dangerous situation she was free to do whatever was necessary to get home safely, but if she used that card for anything other than an emergency I'd take it away from her. That gave us both the security of knowing that if she needed fuel, or found she'd missed the last train, or a bus broke down and she was left stranded, she could get away from the situation without worrying about the price of it.

Since we've been married she's learned a lot about managing a household budget.

 

[contango]

Frankly, telling someone "no" like a child is not going to change an attitude that underlies a behavior. You do that to children, not grown adults. Grown adults should be examining the values together to figure out where the discrepancy is. Why does she value spending more than saving? What is causing her to ignore the budget, knowing full well that the budget for the month is set and really can't be altered. These are key questions that go beyond just saying "no". Your wife isn't a child, and I'm not going to suggest you treat her as one.

Simply saying "no" is sometimes the only option. For a time my wife would spend whatever money she could lay her hands on and then some, and when I asked what she had done with it she typically had no idea. So my options were either to let her slowly destroy the nest egg I'd worked hard to accumulate, or put her on a very short leash, financially speaking.

She didn't like being on a short leash, but I just told her that if she wanted any more money she could go out and earn it, and that I wasn't going to spend my days in a stressful job just so she could waste the money I earned and throw away our future.

So have that 'values' conversation with her. Find out what her values are as far as money is concerned, as well as clearly stating yours. Extras are nice to have, when they can be had. But sacrificing those things in the short term is a necessity, so that they can possibly be had later. Money expert Dave Ramsey has a saying that goes "Live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else". The meaning being that whatever you pay off now (i.e. debts, mortgage, savings, emergency fund, etc.) will pay off in the long run. Then those 'extras' can be enjoyed. Perhaps that's something she can keep in mind when she gets the urge to spend.

The "values" conversation is a good one but doesn't overcome the need to rein in a spouse who is spending enough money to cause financial problems. If she is spending more than they earn then you have to decide between taking a stand and putting an end to it by whatever means is necessary, or continuing until you hit your credit limits and letting your lenders put an end to it by simply withdrawing your credit lines.

 

[Tired77]

EZoolander, I believe you are correct. She watched her sister and ex-husband separate accounts and than shortly after that they split up. That is something she really doesn't want. I can understand that. The biggest issue i'm having is that we can sit down and discuss our goals (debts we want to pay down first), she'll be on board with that, but then a few weeks later i'm noticing a few hundred dollars spent here and there on items she feels we need, but are not in our budget. There isn't a concept of saving for a month or two before making those purchases. I'm really hoping that after we sit down and carefully go through the budget, that she'll understand that she can't just spend money when she feels we need something.
Again, I appreciate all the input folks.

 

[akmom]

Does she have an income?

My mom used to shop all day as a hobby. I remember spending a good deal of my childhood trudging through stores, bored to death. My dad made a decent income, so she just wasted her days spending it all.

When we kids were in our teens she got a job, and finally having something to do with her time helped. She didn't make much, not compared to my dad, but it curbed her spending because she was just too busy. Is your wife bored?