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Fig Tree
- Thread starter jwsiii
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The fig tree represents Israel's national privileges (Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
But there are good figs and evil figs.
This is obviously the evil fig (Jer. 24).
The Lord didn't say any mountain, He said THIS mountian...this nation.
The good and evil figs returned in 1948 (Jer. 24), and there has been bloodshed ever since, as well as an economic impact on trade with the Middle Eastern world.
But there are good figs and evil figs.
(Mat 21:19-20) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. {20} And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
This is obviously the evil fig (Jer. 24).
(Mat 21:21) Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
The Lord didn't say any mountain, He said THIS mountian...this nation.
(Rev 8:8-9) And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; {9} And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
The good and evil figs returned in 1948 (Jer. 24), and there has been bloodshed ever since, as well as an economic impact on trade with the Middle Eastern world.
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This is where most people misunderstand the prophieces of the Bible.
The Bible does not indicate that Israel will return to God as a nation. Individuals will and have done so but as a nation she will not.
It is a deception that the devil has used and is still using today.
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Did I say "returned to God", or "returned to Jerusalem"? I did not say "returned to God", but I meant Jerusalem.
I agree that only a part of Judah has returned (physically to Jerusalem), but both houses will be rejoined on the Lord's Day (Ezek. 37), full restoration after the attack of Rush.
I never said that they returned to God. Who told you that I said that? Satan uses presumptuousness too.
Just kidding
I agree that only a part of Judah has returned (physically to Jerusalem), but both houses will be rejoined on the Lord's Day (Ezek. 37), full restoration after the attack of Rush.
(Ezek 39:25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; "Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
I never said that they returned to God. Who told you that I said that? Satan uses presumptuousness too.
(Exo 21:14) But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
Just kidding
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This is a big study and needs much more space and time that we have here. So just briefly I will give you a overall picture as to what is happening and what I mean by the above post.
Israel through the prophet Daniel said that Jews had 70 weeks which is 490 years of probation. In the middle of the last 7 years the Messiah would be cut off. Jesus was crucified at that time.
The first 3.5 years were His earthly ministry and the final 3.5 years were the last years of probation to the Jews.
As a nation they did not repent and as in the parable of the fig tree it was cut down and routed out. This literally happened to the Jews. It coincided with the stoning of Stephen when the gospel was taken to the Gentiles.
The Jews as God's chosen people cease to be today. As individuals they can be saved.
The great deception that the devil has used for the world wide church is that Israel will be saved and Jesus will come and establish His kingdom from Jerusalem on this earth. That there is a tribulation of 7 years that God's people will go through.
The 7 years is over. In the midst of the week the Messiah would be cut off. It has all gone.
Without getting into too much detail that is what has happened and what will take place.
The blessing promised to Israel now apply to spiritual Israel.
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It is quite a long study, and I have heard both past and future interpretations of it.
The Visions of Daniel (Chapters 7-12) Synchronous
The "Times", and Numbered "Days" of Daniel 7:25; 8:14; 12:7, 11, 12
From what has been said in Appendix 63. ix and Appendix 71, it will be seen that there are different Dispensations, or different characters of Divine administration, suited to the different times in which such administrations are exercised.
The object of this appendix is to show that, in the Old Testament, while this present Dispensation was kept secret (compare Matthew 13:34, 35. Romans 11:25. Ephesians 3:5, 9, etc.), there are remarkable breaks which can be explained only after we have the key put into our hands.
There are certain scriptures which we cannot understand unless we use this key. Like the angels and prophets (1 Peter 1:11, 12) we may search in vain, while others may refuse to search and "look into" these things, and profanely speak of it as the "gap theory".
Whether it be a "theory", let Scripture decide, and the Savior Himself teach.
In the synagogue at Nazareth "He found the place where it was written:
And HE CLOSED THE BOOK, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down" (Luke 4:18-20). Why this mysterious action? Why not continue the reading? Because He could not; for the words which immediately follow refer to the end of the present Dispensation of Grace, and speak of the coming Dispensation of Judgment. Had he continued to read Isaiah 61:1, 2, the next line would have been
But this part of the prophecy was not then to be fulfilled.
As far as He had read, He could truly say, "This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears." But He could not have said "This day is this Scripture fulfilled", had He not "closed the book", but gone on to read the next line.
And yet, in the Authorized Version and all other versions, there is only a comma between the two lines, while there is a period of nearly 2,000 years between the two statements. (In the Manuscripts there is no mark of punctuation at all.)
This will show the importance of "searching" and "looking into" the "manner of time" of which the prophets wrote.
Other examples may be found in
Genesis 1, between verses 1 and 2.
Psalm 22, between verses 21 and 22.
Psalm 118, in the middle of verse 22.
Isaiah. 9:6, after the first clause.
Isaiah 53, in the middle of verse 10.
Isaiah 61, in the middle of verse 2 (see above).
Lamentations 4, between verses 21 and 22.
Daniel 9, between verses 26 and 27.
Daniel 11, between verses 20 and 21.
Hosea 2, between verses 13 and 14.
Hosea 3, between verses 4 and 5.
Amos 9, between verses 10 and 11.
Micah 5, between verses 2 and 3.
Habukkuk 2, between verses 13 and 14.
Zephaniah 3, between verses 7 and 8.
Zephaniah 9, between verses 9 and 10.
Matthew 10, in the middle of verse 23.
Matthew 12, in the middle of verse 20.
Luke 1, between verses 31 and 32.
Luke 21, in the middle of verse 24.
John 1, between verses 5 and 6.
1 Peter 1, in the middle of verse 11.
Revelation 12, between verses 5 and 6.
The Visions of Daniel (Chapters 7-12) Synchronous
The "Times", and Numbered "Days" of Daniel 7:25; 8:14; 12:7, 11, 12
The Parenthesis of the Present Dispensation.
This Is Appendix 72 From The Companion Bible.
This Is Appendix 72 From The Companion Bible.
From what has been said in Appendix 63. ix and Appendix 71, it will be seen that there are different Dispensations, or different characters of Divine administration, suited to the different times in which such administrations are exercised.
The object of this appendix is to show that, in the Old Testament, while this present Dispensation was kept secret (compare Matthew 13:34, 35. Romans 11:25. Ephesians 3:5, 9, etc.), there are remarkable breaks which can be explained only after we have the key put into our hands.
There are certain scriptures which we cannot understand unless we use this key. Like the angels and prophets (1 Peter 1:11, 12) we may search in vain, while others may refuse to search and "look into" these things, and profanely speak of it as the "gap theory".
Whether it be a "theory", let Scripture decide, and the Savior Himself teach.
In the synagogue at Nazareth "He found the place where it was written:
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To preach deliverance to the captives,
And recovering of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To preach deliverance to the captives,
And recovering of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And HE CLOSED THE BOOK, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down" (Luke 4:18-20). Why this mysterious action? Why not continue the reading? Because He could not; for the words which immediately follow refer to the end of the present Dispensation of Grace, and speak of the coming Dispensation of Judgment. Had he continued to read Isaiah 61:1, 2, the next line would have been
"And the day of vengeance of our God".
But this part of the prophecy was not then to be fulfilled.
As far as He had read, He could truly say, "This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears." But He could not have said "This day is this Scripture fulfilled", had He not "closed the book", but gone on to read the next line.
And yet, in the Authorized Version and all other versions, there is only a comma between the two lines, while there is a period of nearly 2,000 years between the two statements. (In the Manuscripts there is no mark of punctuation at all.)
This will show the importance of "searching" and "looking into" the "manner of time" of which the prophets wrote.
Other examples may be found in
Genesis 1, between verses 1 and 2.
Psalm 22, between verses 21 and 22.
Psalm 118, in the middle of verse 22.
Isaiah. 9:6, after the first clause.
Isaiah 53, in the middle of verse 10.
Isaiah 61, in the middle of verse 2 (see above).
Lamentations 4, between verses 21 and 22.
Daniel 9, between verses 26 and 27.
Daniel 11, between verses 20 and 21.
Hosea 2, between verses 13 and 14.
Hosea 3, between verses 4 and 5.
Amos 9, between verses 10 and 11.
Micah 5, between verses 2 and 3.
Habukkuk 2, between verses 13 and 14.
Zephaniah 3, between verses 7 and 8.
Zephaniah 9, between verses 9 and 10.
Matthew 10, in the middle of verse 23.
Matthew 12, in the middle of verse 20.
Luke 1, between verses 31 and 32.
Luke 21, in the middle of verse 24.
John 1, between verses 5 and 6.
1 Peter 1, in the middle of verse 11.
Revelation 12, between verses 5 and 6.
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Also, do not confuse blessings with prophecies. You appear to be inserting "blessings" where "prophecies" are mentioned. Prophecies include much more than blessings.
You cannot make void hundreds of lines of Divine Revelation concerning the future with a grafting in of the church.
The church was grafted into the olive tree, Isreal's religious privileges (Jud. 9:8-9. Rom. 11), not the fig tree, Israel national privileges (Jud. 9:10-11. Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; You partake of their fatness, you don't replace them in it.
Boast not against the branches. Don't do it!
The antichrist wants you too. "The whole world" (Rev. 12:9) shall be decieved when he makes his covenant "with many" (Dan. 9:27).
Olive tree = religious privileges, not national.
There are prophecies concerning the nation of Israel, the House of Israel, and the House of Judah that must be fulfilled. But do not confuse those "prophecies" with "blessings". Some things have always been on an individual basis (Ezek. 18).
You cannot make void hundreds of lines of Divine Revelation concerning the future with a grafting in of the church.
The church was grafted into the olive tree, Isreal's religious privileges (Jud. 9:8-9. Rom. 11), not the fig tree, Israel national privileges (Jud. 9:10-11. Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
(Rom 11:17-18) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; {18} Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; You partake of their fatness, you don't replace them in it.
Boast not against the branches. Don't do it!
(Rom 11:19-20) Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. {20} Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
The antichrist wants you too. "The whole world" (Rev. 12:9) shall be decieved when he makes his covenant "with many" (Dan. 9:27).
(Rom 11:21-24) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. {22} Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. {23} And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. {24} For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Olive tree = religious privileges, not national.
There are prophecies concerning the nation of Israel, the House of Israel, and the House of Judah that must be fulfilled. But do not confuse those "prophecies" with "blessings". Some things have always been on an individual basis (Ezek. 18).
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Symes said:
Well , i'm not to keen on prophecy, but if that was the case, why has this 1000 reign on earth (the kingdom of spritual israel, as you put it) been going on for over 2000 years?
And didn't Paul say in Romans that God had not cast them off forever?
Rom 11:1-2
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew
Rom 11:12
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
KJV
Sorry, i just never heard this interpretation before. So of course i'm curious.12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
KJV
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Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy (46) weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to (47) make atonement for iniquity, to bring in (48) everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a (49) decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until (50) Messiah the (51) Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be (52) cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will (53) destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a (54) flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of (55) abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a (56) complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
The Messiah is cut off in the middle of the last week. They have 70 weeks of probation to clear up their own mess. In the middle of the week there would be a stop to the sacrifices.
This all happened with the death of Jesus at the cross. Then after there was a further 3.5 years of final probation. They failed and the fig tree was finally cut down.
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Symes said:
Dan 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks (62): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV
Symes , I appreciate the input. But you never answered my questions:
Why has this 1000 reign on earth (the kingdom of spritual israel, as you put it) been going on for over 2000 years? How does that fit in to this view?
And why did Paul say in Romans that God had not cast them off forever? Is He going to bring them back?
As I read Daniel I see a couple things happening: There is supposed to be a 7 week period, followed by a 62 week period followed by a one week period. So basically, 49years, 434 years and 7 years?
In verse 62 after 3.5 years the Messiah will be cut-off. And youre saying that this 3.5 years was in the half-way through the 70th week?
Who is the HE refered to in verse 27? I always thought that has the anti-christ, sometime during the tribulation. Is the one week refered to in verse 27 the same week the messiah was cut-off? If so, at the same time Christ was on the cross HE caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. That doesnt make sense to me. Or is this referring to the Messiah somehow again?
I would have to disagree with this one. Verse 24 clearly states that the 70 weeks were to , to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most HolySymes said:
Has God made an end to sin? I thought somewhere He wrote in the gospel of John that ..all have sinned. And in 1 John 1:8 God reminded us that If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I might see the reconciliation for iniquity having happened at the cross but no way has God brought in everlasting righteousness or anointed the most Holy.
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Anointing the most holy occurs on the Day of Atonement. Jesus with his first coming fulfilled the spring time feasts and with his second coming will fulfill the fall type feasts. Everlasting righteousness will occur in the marriage, on the Day of Atonement. The fulfillment as you said for everlasting righteousness, perfect in Christ, has yet to occur.
There is a real need to study the fall feasts or we will be as the Jews in Jesus day and not see the fulfillment of the ceremonial spring time feasts. The Feast of Unleaven bread was fulfilled as Jesus dealt out the Word of God unleaven. The Passover was fulfilled in Christ's sacrifice. The Pentacost was fulfilled with the descending of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples at Pentacost.
Now for the fall feast there is feast of trumpets....sounds like something out of Revelation. The day of atonement has two parts....that part which is in the most holy, a union for all time in perfect righteousness, and glorification marriage, and those who are on the outside of the tabernacle where they miss out. [Heb 10:16-22] When Jesus is done the work of the High Priest in heaven He will return to get His people. The Feast of Tabernacles is that time.
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Hello @@Paul@@.
Again, the church was grafted into the olive tree, Isreal's religious privileges (Jud. 9:8-9. Rom. 11), not the fig tree, Israel national privileges (Jud. 9:10-11. Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
And yes, this happened.
But concerning the final generation He said:
That branch of the fig, the House of Judah specifically (Jer. 24), was planted in 1948 and puts forth leaves...not fruit.
The privilege of Israel as a nation of the fig tree, has been re-established according to the prophesy. This is a prophecy of national privilege, it has nothing to do with blessings.
Religious rights are shared by both Israel and the "church" (Rom. 11) as the Olive Tree, not the Fig.
Don't let someone mix your trees up.
Again, the church was grafted into the olive tree, Isreal's religious privileges (Jud. 9:8-9. Rom. 11), not the fig tree, Israel national privileges (Jud. 9:10-11. Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
(Mat 21:19) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
And yes, this happened.
But concerning the final generation He said:
(Mat 24:32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
That branch of the fig, the House of Judah specifically (Jer. 24), was planted in 1948 and puts forth leaves...not fruit.
The privilege of Israel as a nation of the fig tree, has been re-established according to the prophesy. This is a prophecy of national privilege, it has nothing to do with blessings.
Religious rights are shared by both Israel and the "church" (Rom. 11) as the Olive Tree, not the Fig.
Don't let someone mix your trees up.
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visionary said:
Thanks. I never thought to tie all that together before. Should make for an interesting study.
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You're welcome @@Paul@@.
olive tree: Israel's religious privileges (Rom. 11).
fig tree: Israel's national privileges (Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
the vine: Israel's spiritual privileges (Isa. 5. John 15).
the bramble: Abimelech, and Satan who is the antichrist, which will devour the nation as foreshown in v. 20. He will come and make a covenant with many (Dan. 9:27), not just Israel, and all the world, not just Israel, will wonder after him.
(Judg 9:8-9) The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, "Reign thou over us." {9} But the olive tree said unto them, "Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?"
olive tree: Israel's religious privileges (Rom. 11).
(Judg 9:10-11) And the trees said to the fig tree, "Come thou, and reign over us." {11} But the fig tree said unto them, "Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?"
fig tree: Israel's national privileges (Jer. 24. Matt. 21:19-20. Mark 11:13, 20-21. Luke 13:6-9.)
(Judg 9:12-13) Then said the trees unto the vine, "Come thou, and reign over us." {13} And the vine said unto them, "Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?"
the vine: Israel's spiritual privileges (Isa. 5. John 15).
(Judg 9:14-15) Then said all the trees unto the bramble, "Come thou, and reign over us." {15} And the bramble said unto the trees, "If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon."
the bramble: Abimelech, and Satan who is the antichrist, which will devour the nation as foreshown in v. 20. He will come and make a covenant with many (Dan. 9:27), not just Israel, and all the world, not just Israel, will wonder after him.
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Rvincent, you really lost me with that one.
So, we are still grafted onto a tree. We have nothing on our own and its up to Israel to produce fruit so we can be blessed? Is this the spiritual Israel theory?
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Who provides blessing @@Paul@@? God or Israel?
I think you know.
I think you know.
(Hosea 14:8) Ephraim shall say, "What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard Him, and observed Him: 'I Am like a green fir tree. From Me is thy fruit found.'"
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Opps, sorry. i must not have been clear.RVincent said:
Rom 11:17
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
KJV
Rom 15:27
27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
KJV
So my point was. In this theory we only seem to be blessed through Isreal. On all counts. We are noted as partaking of THEIR spiritual things. Without Israel there would be no church. Of course God gives the blessing BUT looking at it this way it would seem hes doing it through Israel as a channel of blessings. So, basically we are still dogs, eating crumbs from under the table.
Matt 15:27
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
KJV
Is this what you are trying to say? We are still partaking of the fatness of the olive tree? Which is not producing any fruit yet? Sorry, but I still dont see where you are going with this.
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