Fidel Castro

oldbetang · Jan 5, 2006

CCGirl said:
Cuab is a wonderful, beautiful country, I love to go and hang out with the people!

Unlike Cuba , which is ruled by an oppressive, brutal regime. Conservative estimates put the total of Cubans murdered by Castro at about 10,000. That's five times the number killed by Pinochet's regime. Add another 60,000 who have drowned trying to flee Cuba and you'll get some idea of what it's like living in Cuba.

Heiroglyph · Jan 5, 2006

oldbetang said:
Unlike Cuba , which is ruled by an oppressive, brutal regime. Conservative estimates put the total of Cubans murdered by Castro at about 10,000. That's five times the number killed by Pinochet's regime. Add another 60,000 who have drowned trying to flee Cuba and you'll get some idea of what it's like living in Cuba.

How many Cubans do you personally know? Do you personally know any Cubans who "fled" the island?
I know several dozen from living in Miami for 8 years. Cubans did not leave Cuba for fear of persecution. Many cubans who left were actually in prison for crimes like murder, and Castro released them from prison, on condition they leave the island and never come back. They were given a raft and a shot to make a new life in the USA or die trying. Others left because they actually believe the streets are lined with gold here. Most of the cubans I talked to though eagerly refute any notion of persecution and relay how wonderful life is in Cuba.
Of couse you have the people who got beat by a cop in Cuba and hold fidel responsible personally as if he orders every police beating. WHo orders all the police beatings in New York city or Los angeles? Does the current president do that or do the police do that on their own?
People in Cuba love Fidel and if you badmouth Fidel they will likely threaten or beat you. Fidel has nothing to do with it though it is the people who do it because you are insulting something they love.

ACougar · Jan 5, 2006

Castro like every other man is far from perfect, however he has managed to do some amazing things with a little third world country opposed by the most powerful nation in the world.

stray bullet · Jan 5, 2006

ACougar said:
Castro like every other man is far from perfect, however he has managed to do some amazing things with a little third world country opposed by the most powerful nation in the world.

Would this including holding an iron grip over his people and depriving them of democracy and freedom for 50 years?

oldbetang · Jan 5, 2006

Croc said:
How many Cubans do you personally know? Do you personally know any Cubans who "fled" the island?
I know several dozen from living in Miami for 8 years. Cubans did not leave Cuba for fear of persecution.

I don't have any personal anecdotal evidence to share. However, there are plenty of Cuban exiles whose experiences would counter the views expressed by your friends . Like the following:

Journalist offers perspective on boatlift

The thing that hurt most as a child, Ojito says, wasn't the privation that denied her chocolate, or even, in the fifth grade, "being denied God" when Castro outlawed Catholicism. It was, instead, the anguish of her father, whose longing for freedom in the United States was palpable.

He wasn't the only one.

"I go into great detail about what life was like in Cuba in the '60s and '70s," Ojito says of Finding Mañana. "I actually think that is the real contribution of the book. I don't know of another book that looks at daily life in Cuba at a time when it was truly an island, totally isolated."

The '60s and '70s, she says, made up "the worst years of repression in Cuba. Castro was young, a leftist, anti-American. Life in Cuba was very different. He not only wanted your obedience, but also your soul. Unless you fit that mold, and my family didn't, you had few choices."

A rising tide

Ojito says the period illustrates why communism always results in tyranny. In Cuba, there was nearly full employment, yet food and other essentials were forever in short supply.

"Communism doesn't work unless you eliminate capitalism completely," Ojito says. "The way to do that is by eliminating freedom. Capitalism is the freedom, or at least the illusion of the freedom, to do anything you want."

Cubans of all political persuasions knew the economy was in poor shape, but it wasn't until 1979, when, after two decades of isolation, exiles were allowed to visit, that it became apparent just how bad it really was there.

"We saw for the first time the experiences of our relatives in the United States," she said. "They came laden with presents. They had jobs, cars, they lived in the suburbs. We wanted to know why we couldn't also go to America."

Those who were open-minded, Ojito says, who tended to disagree with the regime, saw Cuba's economic woes as a failure of socialism.

"Those who liked Castro, and there were many, put it down to bad luck, or blamed the U.S.," she says. "The U.S. was blamed for everything, including hurricanes."

Many cubans who left were actually in prison for crimes like murder

Sure, a couple of thousand criminals in the Mariel Boat Lift. But , let's not leave out those with mental illnesses who were forced to leave that "compassionate socialist paradise".

Most of the cubans I talked to though eagerly refute any notion of persecution and relay how wonderful life is in Cuba.

Which begs the question, if Cuba is so wonderful, why haven't they gone back?Why is it that we never hear of people drowning when trying to reach Cuba from the horrible USA?

People in Cuba love Fidel and if you badmouth Fidel they will likely threaten or beat you.

How wonderful!

CCGirl · Jan 6, 2006

oldbetang said:
Unlike Cuba , which is ruled by an oppressive, brutal regime. Conservative estimates put the total of Cubans murdered by Castro at about 10,000. That's five times the number killed by Pinochet's regime. Add another 60,000 who have drowned trying to flee Cuba and you'll get some idea of what it's like living in Cuba.

Have you been to Cuba? And please provide reputable sources for your outrageous numbers!!

Your tax dollars at work pay for planes to bombard the Island with "Radio Marti", aimed at encouraging Cubans to leave, with promises of materialistic luxuries, jobs, etc. The NED funnels millions into "dissidents" to destabilize the govt. CUbans are the ONLY nationality covered by the wet-foot/dry/foot policy! A Haitian is sent back to his country, where there is true poverty and hopelessness, and war.

The bizarre hold that the ex-Cubans have over your media is an example of propoganda at its finest!

Others left because they actually believe the streets are lined with gold here. Most of the cubans I talked to though eagerly refute any notion of persecution and relay how wonderful life is in Cuba.

This is very true.

HelloToAll · Jan 6, 2006

I once heard, that if Castro dies, one of his sons will succeed him.

stray bullet · Jan 6, 2006

Croc said:
Most of the cubans I talked to though eagerly refute any notion of persecution and relay how wonderful life is in Cuba.

And they don't return to Cuba, why?

oldbetang · Jan 6, 2006

CCGirl said:
Have you been to Cuba? And please provide reputable sources for your outrageous numbers!!

The Cuba Archive : Free Society Project

Documented deaths caused by the Castro government ;

Free Society Project, Inc., 2005. ©All rights reserved.

December 27, 2005 Update on

Non-Combat Victims of the Castro Regime

The following information is derived primarily from Armando M. Lago, Ph.D.s "Cuba: The Human Costof Social Revolution," manuscript for publication. This work documents loss of life and disappearances for political and military reasons during the Cuban revolutionary period. Each documented case is substantiated by historical data and reports from independent sources.

The following table comprises non-combat deaths attributed to the Castro regime onwards from January 1, 1959, date the Castro government assumed power. Due to the ongoing nature of the work and the difficulty of obtaining and verifying data from Cuba, the following totals are, thus, not exhaustive. The Truth Recovery Archive on Cuba (T.R.A.C.), or "Cuba Archive," continues investigating reported cases and documenting previously unreported cases. Because this work is in progress, totals change as research advances.

Table: Non-combat Victims of the Castro Regime

January 1, 1959 to Date(Documented to March 25, 2005)

Firing squad executions 5,640
Extrajudicial assassinations

1 1,203
Deaths in prisons2 2,199
Missing and disappeared 198

9,240

"Balseros" (high end of estimated range)

3 77,833

Total 87,073

Note: This table excludes documented deaths of civilians -both Cuban and otherwise- resulting from international military incursions, sabotage, or support for international subversion sponsored by Cuba.

Reproduction of this material is authorizedas long as its source is cited.

1 Includes 187 assassinations during attempts to leave the island and seek asylum abroad.

2
2,199 deaths in prisons include 200 for lack of medical attention, 155 assassinations, 272 suicides, 1,315 due toaccidents and other reasons, including natural cause that may have been precipitated by prison conditions and 258 deaths in the U.M.A.P. farm labor concentration camps. Executions, even when they mostly occurred within prisons or of prisoners at the time of death, are tallied separately (see table above).

3 The estimated number of victims has been derived from data in studies by the Oceanographic Institute of the University of Miami and the University of Havana and reports by the U.S. Coast Guard. The actual number of rafters who have perished at sea is very difficult to corroborate. Francisco Chaviano, who attempted inside Cuba to collect information on disappearances, including rafters, was sentenced to 15 years in prison in 1995.

The President of Cuba Archive, Maria Werlau, lived in Chile under the Pinochet dictatorship. She has pointed out that ''The Castro regime executed more people in just its first three years than the Pinochet regime killed or 'disappeared' in its entire 17 years in power.

CCGirl · Jan 6, 2006

oldbetang said:
The Cuba Archive : Free Society Project

Documented deaths caused by the Castro government ;

Free Society Project, Inc., 2005. ©All rights reserved.

December 27, 2005 Update on

Non-Combat Victims of the Castro Regime

The following information is derived primarily from Armando M. Lago, Ph.D.s "Cuba: The Human Costof Social Revolution," manuscript for publication. This work documents loss of life and disappearances for political and military reasons during the Cuban revolutionary period. Each documented case is substantiated by historical data and reports from independent sources.

The following table comprises non-combat deaths attributed to the Castro regime onwards from January 1, 1959, date the Castro government assumed power. Due to the ongoing nature of the work and the difficulty of obtaining and verifying data from Cuba, the following totals are, thus, not exhaustive. The Truth Recovery Archive on Cuba (T.R.A.C.), or "Cuba Archive," continues investigating reported cases and documenting previously unreported cases. Because this work is in progress, totals change as research advances.

Table: Non-combat Victims of the Castro Regime

January 1, 1959 to Date(Documented to March 25, 2005)

Firing squad executions 5,640

Extrajudicial assassinations

1 1,203

Deaths in prisons2 2,199

Missing and disappeared 198

9,240

"Balseros" (high end of estimated range)

3 77,833

Total 87,073

Note: This table excludes documented deaths of civilians -both Cuban and otherwise- resulting from international military incursions, sabotage, or support for international subversion sponsored by Cuba.

Reproduction of this material is authorizedas long as its source is cited.

1 Includes 187 assassinations during attempts to leave the island and seek asylum abroad.

2
2,199 deaths in prisons include 200 for lack of medical attention, 155 assassinations, 272 suicides, 1,315 due toaccidents and other reasons, including natural cause that may have been precipitated by prison conditions and 258 deaths in the U.M.A.P. farm labor concentration camps. Executions, even when they mostly occurred within prisons or of prisoners at the time of death, are tallied separately (see table above).

3 The estimated number of victims has been derived from data in studies by the Oceanographic Institute of the University of Miami and the University of Havana and reports by the U.S. Coast Guard. The actual number of rafters who have perished at sea is very difficult to corroborate. Francisco Chaviano, who attempted inside Cuba to collect information on disappearances, including rafters, was sentenced to 15 years in prison in 1995.

The President of Cuba Archive, Maria Werlau, lived in Chile under the Pinochet dictatorship. She has pointed out that ''The Castro regime executed more people in just its first three years than the Pinochet regime killed or 'disappeared' in its entire 17 years in power.

This is an opinion of a few people. Not backed up by facts! Post sources that are in Cuba, work in Cuba, work with Cubans, know Cubans, speak to Cubans. And especially people who have an agenda. If people want to actually learn about a place, and not spout propoganda, then click on links below! These people are eithr Cuban or are there working. Try reading sources that support the people!!!

Elections in Cuba

Cuba Truth Project

Canadian Foundation for the Americas

Venceremos Brigade

stray bullet · Jan 6, 2006

I love the Cuban elections link. Where are the statistics for the Presidental election? I'd think that would be important, considering that the President controls the single party, the only legal party in Cuba, holds the power to veto all decisions made by Parliament and can neither be vetoed nor removed from office by any other authority in Cuba.

I mean, with that election, right-wing radicals who know nothing about Cuba could argue that it is a dictatorship controlled by one man who has absolute power in the country with a rubber stamping parliament that has no real power, rendering all rather meaningless and nothing but a show.

oldbetang · Jan 6, 2006

CCGirl said:
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This is an opinion of a few people. Not backed up by facts!

It is not opinion, it is documented facts, much of which has been compiled by Cubans themselves. Your refusal to acknowledge the truth does not make it any less so. Check out the info. that they have on one of your favorite murderers, Che Guevara.

MadeInOz · Jan 6, 2006

Okay... maybe I am missing something here, but really, what is so bad about Fidel Castro? Could someone please explain this to me, without bringing in all of the crap about communism and so on. The US embargos/sanctions on the country have done more harm than Castro (at least as I can see it) has done.

CCGirl · Jan 6, 2006

indeep said:
Okay... maybe I am missing something here, but really, what is so bad about Fidel Castro? Could someone please explain this to me, without bringing in all of the crap about communism and so on. The US embargos/sanctions on the country have done more harm than Castro (at least as I can see it) has done.

There is nothing wrong with Cuba or Castro, heck the US has installed brutal dictators in other countries but no complaints about that!

No, Cuba and its people have successfully had a socialist revolution 90 miles off US shores.

That is what the US power brokers can not forgive.

All the rest of the world that freely travels there knows this. But the miami mafia, as they are known, want their own guys in power to rape the people and country like Batista did!

CCGirl · Jan 6, 2006

oldbetang said:
It is not opinion, it is documented facts, much of which has been compiled by Cubans themselves. Your refusal to acknowledge the truth does not make it any less so. Check out the info. that they have on one of your favorite murderers, Che Guevara.

After you are allowed to go to Cuba, then tell us what your opinion is!

AndreLinoge · Jan 6, 2006

Can people in Cuba openly criticize Castro? Can they start their own business if they wish? Can they publish opinions contrary to the party line?

Just a few questions.

stray bullet · Jan 6, 2006

indeep said:
Okay... maybe I am missing something here, but really, what is so bad about Fidel Castro? Could someone please explain this to me, without bringing in all of the crap about communism and so on. The US embargos/sanctions on the country have done more harm than Castro (at least as I can see it) has done.

He's an absolute dictator of Cuba. He made himself an enemy of the US by allying himself with the Soviets and putting a Soviet base on his island, pointing nuclear missiles at the US in a country that was far less than stable at the time. Apparently the US is supposed to think giving an instable dictatorship nuclear weapons is okay.

Like all dictatorships, Castro maintains his power through silencing all opposition and through brutual secret police force. His people are forced to live off rations because of terrible mismanagment, much like North Korea. What used to be a sugar capital of the world now actually has to import sugar (from the US of all places), for example. Same goes with beef, dairy and a variety of other products. The economy is in the toliet and there is little industry outside of cigar making, smoking which just happens to be his hobby.

The people of his country do not have freedom, not even the freedom to leave. The Cuban navy will spray water hoses at rafts until they tip over or fill up with water and drown.

Cuba didn't exactly help relations with the US when he decided it would be fun to load dangerous criminals and the insane on rafts and send them to the US as 'refugees'.

I guess there is nothing much wrong with Castro outside of being a dictator, running his country into the ground, depriving his people of basic needs and freedom and ticking off the US constantly.

People that say that Cuba is great are probably the same sort that think North Korea is great too. Pyongyang is a beautiful city and if you go there as a tourist you'll think it's a wonderful monument to socialist success.

Pentecostal Boy · Jan 6, 2006

Ok, I'm just wondering how can you rely on whata bunch of POOR, BRAIN WASHED, DICTATOR LED, citizens! Ok that's like a child saying that they didn't love there mother no matter how good or bad she is. Castro is like that they wouldn't say anything bad about him cause thats there national laded. in my opinion he is a horrible, inhumane man!

JPPT1974 · Jan 6, 2006

Does Cuba not have any elections since Castro has been in power well it seems like half-a-century.
IMO, he will die in power!

stray bullet · Jan 6, 2006

JPPT1974 said:
Does Cuba not have any elections since Castro has been in power well it seems like half-a-century.
IMO, he will die in power!

Cuba has 'elections' for certain positions, they just don't mean anything, because the people they elect have no real power. Cuba is like abolishing all parties except the Republicans, giving GWB complete power over the US and the Republican party, not holding presidental elections and making it impossible for Congress or a judge to remove him, nor able to veto any decision.

You could still elect people to Congress, but all they can do is act as a rubber stamp for whatever the President and the Republican party wants.

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