ok i just signed up for this. i have no idea if this is the right forum to post in but I guess the admin. can move it if it is wrong. i have a geography debate in about a week and i was wondering if anyone here could help me defend a few of these counter topics about the flood. ok so here they are if you have an answer to any of them tell me which topic number your answering thanks a ton!:
1) Archaeological research has also made other discoveries regarding the origin of the flood myth. For example, there is ample evidence that in the distant past the Tigris and Euphrates rivers periodically overflowed their banks causing great damage. Excavations clearly show silt layers, sometimes as much as seven feet thick, overlying civilization and over all of that, civilization begins again. So devastating, but natural, floods did occur in that region in the past and could have provided the inspiration for the myth. However, this type of natural flooding would never have occurred in Israel because the Jordan, the only river of any consequence in that region, flows for most of its length below sea level. So, here we have a borrowed tale.
2) As one examines the biblical version of this story, conflicting elements become clear. The most obvious concerns the numbers of creatures Noah is to bring with him. In Gen. 6:19-20 God tells Noah to bring one pair of "every living thing including birds." But in Gen.7:2-3 God gives a different set of instructions. Here he tells Noah to bring with him seven pairs of clean animals and only one pair of the unclean. He also tells Noah to bring seven pairs of all birds. In Genesis 6:17 it says that ALL flesh will die. But in Genesis 7:22 we are told that only those creatures living on dry land will die. Why these contradictions? Well, the truth is that the flood story in the Bible is a composite of two separate stories each with different origins3. The earliest account (J) was probably written during the time of King Solomon (10th cent. BCE). The later one (P) is believed to have been written in the sixth century BCE. In J seven pairs of clean animals are taken aboard so there will be some for sacrifices. But P, more concerned with covenants than with sacrifices, specifies that only one pair of animals be brought with no exception made for clean animals or birds. The flood story, as we have it in Genesis, is the result of the combining the J and P stories so as to reads as a single continuous tail. The combining of these two separate sources is the result of a clever cut and paste job performed during the Babylonian exile (597 BCE to 538 BCE) under the direction of the high priest, Ezra. However, the unified story is a mass of contradictions. One of which concerns the number of animals brought on board as noted above. In Gen. 8:6 it says that the flood lasted for forty days, but in Gen. 8:3 it lasted for one hundred and fifty days. Did Noah send out a raven to see if the waters were dried up (Gen, 8;7) or was it a dove (Gen. 8:8)? There are others.
3) At the end of the story there is a covenant wherein God promises never again to flood the entire earth. Because he tended to be somewhat forgetful, God puts a "bow in the clouds" to remind him of this promise (Gen. 9:16). Is the Bible saying that there were no rainbows before that time? Did the atmospheric laws of refraction, which have operated for millions of years, suddenly change on that day? Not likely.
4) The Ark, so decreed that great naval Architect in the sky, was to be built entirely of Gopher wood, and its dimensions were to be 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide by 30 cubits height (Gen. 6:14-15.) Although the perceived length of a cubit may vary5, based on an average length of 18 inches, that translates into 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet. This presented our farmer-turned-ship-builder with a daunting problem because the Ark would have broken apart with the first wave. According to Robert A. Moore (Creation/Evolution XI, vol 4, no. 1, pages. 4-5) there is an upper limit, in the region of 300 feet, on the length of a wooden ship. Beyond this a wooden ship is subjected to great stress and the hull cannot be maintained watertight and requires diagonal iron strapping for support. Yet the Ark was deemed to be over 100 feet longer.
5) As far back as the seventeenth century Sir Walter Raleigh realized that even at its great size, the Ark could not have held the cargo of animals assigned to it. Also, where did they get the food and fresh water needed to sustain all of those animals? Who cleaned up their mess? These important questions are conveniently ignored in the Genesis accounts.
6) Another real-world problem for those believing this story is meteorology. Genesis 7:19-20 state that all earth was covered by 15 cubits (between 22 and 23 feet) of water. "The mountains were covered," we are told in Gen. 7:20. In order to cover Mt. Everest--over 29,000 feet above sea level--for a span of approximately 5 months (Gen, 8:3)--it would have had to rain an average of 6 inches per minute for the entire time. The record for rainfall for any one-minute at any one location is 1.5 inches. Also, if all that vapor was in the air before the rain started, the air pressure at sea level would be an astounding 13,000 psi instead of the normal 14.5 psi.
7) In the literature of ancient Egypt, the most powerful and most advanced nation in the world at the alleged time of the Great Flood, there is no mention of a catastrophic flood of world wide proportions. If such a flood had occurred, all of the Egyptians would have been drowned. That obviously didn't happen.
8) However, the most devastating problem facing believers in the flood myth surfaces in Numbers 13:33. Here the Israelites encounter the sons of Anak. The Anakites came from the Nephilim (giants) who, according to Genesis 6:2-4, originated in pre-flood times as a result of the sexual union of male angels (sons of God) and the daughters of men. Therefore the presence in post-flood Canaan of Anakites, the descendants of the Nephilim, would mean that not all who lived on earth, other than Noah and his immediate family, were killed in the flood. This stands as a direct contradiction of Genesis 6:17 where God vows to, . . . bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; every thing that is in the earth shall die.
thanks a ton guys if you have an answer to any question feel free to post id love to hear!
1) Archaeological research has also made other discoveries regarding the origin of the flood myth. For example, there is ample evidence that in the distant past the Tigris and Euphrates rivers periodically overflowed their banks causing great damage. Excavations clearly show silt layers, sometimes as much as seven feet thick, overlying civilization and over all of that, civilization begins again. So devastating, but natural, floods did occur in that region in the past and could have provided the inspiration for the myth. However, this type of natural flooding would never have occurred in Israel because the Jordan, the only river of any consequence in that region, flows for most of its length below sea level. So, here we have a borrowed tale.
2) As one examines the biblical version of this story, conflicting elements become clear. The most obvious concerns the numbers of creatures Noah is to bring with him. In Gen. 6:19-20 God tells Noah to bring one pair of "every living thing including birds." But in Gen.7:2-3 God gives a different set of instructions. Here he tells Noah to bring with him seven pairs of clean animals and only one pair of the unclean. He also tells Noah to bring seven pairs of all birds. In Genesis 6:17 it says that ALL flesh will die. But in Genesis 7:22 we are told that only those creatures living on dry land will die. Why these contradictions? Well, the truth is that the flood story in the Bible is a composite of two separate stories each with different origins3. The earliest account (J) was probably written during the time of King Solomon (10th cent. BCE). The later one (P) is believed to have been written in the sixth century BCE. In J seven pairs of clean animals are taken aboard so there will be some for sacrifices. But P, more concerned with covenants than with sacrifices, specifies that only one pair of animals be brought with no exception made for clean animals or birds. The flood story, as we have it in Genesis, is the result of the combining the J and P stories so as to reads as a single continuous tail. The combining of these two separate sources is the result of a clever cut and paste job performed during the Babylonian exile (597 BCE to 538 BCE) under the direction of the high priest, Ezra. However, the unified story is a mass of contradictions. One of which concerns the number of animals brought on board as noted above. In Gen. 8:6 it says that the flood lasted for forty days, but in Gen. 8:3 it lasted for one hundred and fifty days. Did Noah send out a raven to see if the waters were dried up (Gen, 8;7) or was it a dove (Gen. 8:8)? There are others.
3) At the end of the story there is a covenant wherein God promises never again to flood the entire earth. Because he tended to be somewhat forgetful, God puts a "bow in the clouds" to remind him of this promise (Gen. 9:16). Is the Bible saying that there were no rainbows before that time? Did the atmospheric laws of refraction, which have operated for millions of years, suddenly change on that day? Not likely.
4) The Ark, so decreed that great naval Architect in the sky, was to be built entirely of Gopher wood, and its dimensions were to be 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide by 30 cubits height (Gen. 6:14-15.) Although the perceived length of a cubit may vary5, based on an average length of 18 inches, that translates into 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet. This presented our farmer-turned-ship-builder with a daunting problem because the Ark would have broken apart with the first wave. According to Robert A. Moore (Creation/Evolution XI, vol 4, no. 1, pages. 4-5) there is an upper limit, in the region of 300 feet, on the length of a wooden ship. Beyond this a wooden ship is subjected to great stress and the hull cannot be maintained watertight and requires diagonal iron strapping for support. Yet the Ark was deemed to be over 100 feet longer.
5) As far back as the seventeenth century Sir Walter Raleigh realized that even at its great size, the Ark could not have held the cargo of animals assigned to it. Also, where did they get the food and fresh water needed to sustain all of those animals? Who cleaned up their mess? These important questions are conveniently ignored in the Genesis accounts.
6) Another real-world problem for those believing this story is meteorology. Genesis 7:19-20 state that all earth was covered by 15 cubits (between 22 and 23 feet) of water. "The mountains were covered," we are told in Gen. 7:20. In order to cover Mt. Everest--over 29,000 feet above sea level--for a span of approximately 5 months (Gen, 8:3)--it would have had to rain an average of 6 inches per minute for the entire time. The record for rainfall for any one-minute at any one location is 1.5 inches. Also, if all that vapor was in the air before the rain started, the air pressure at sea level would be an astounding 13,000 psi instead of the normal 14.5 psi.
7) In the literature of ancient Egypt, the most powerful and most advanced nation in the world at the alleged time of the Great Flood, there is no mention of a catastrophic flood of world wide proportions. If such a flood had occurred, all of the Egyptians would have been drowned. That obviously didn't happen.
8) However, the most devastating problem facing believers in the flood myth surfaces in Numbers 13:33. Here the Israelites encounter the sons of Anak. The Anakites came from the Nephilim (giants) who, according to Genesis 6:2-4, originated in pre-flood times as a result of the sexual union of male angels (sons of God) and the daughters of men. Therefore the presence in post-flood Canaan of Anakites, the descendants of the Nephilim, would mean that not all who lived on earth, other than Noah and his immediate family, were killed in the flood. This stands as a direct contradiction of Genesis 6:17 where God vows to, . . . bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; every thing that is in the earth shall die.
thanks a ton guys if you have an answer to any question feel free to post id love to hear!
