female preacher

[Birck DK]

female preacher.
What are you opinions on this for and against? should i reconsider my stance

 

[jas3]

My opinion is the same as John Wesley's.

should i reconsider my stance

What is your stance?

 

[PloverWing]

I belong to a church that accepts women in all levels of ordained and lay ministry.

Many books have been written on this subject, and I won't attempt to reproduce all their content here. But the main idea is this: It's true that there are some individual verses in the Epistles that seem to exclude women from full participation in the life of the church. But these verses have to be read together with the grand sweep of Jesus' and Paul's teachings. In the ministry of Jesus, we see him reaching out to many traditionally-disfavored groups of people: women, Romans and other Gentiles, lepers, Samaritans, the poor. We see this outreach in Paul, too, and he mentions a number of female church leaders and teachers in his letters.

The New Testament spends a great deal of time teaching that Christians are not supposed to have hierarchies of status or power based on one's social status in the secular world. Because of this, I don't think it's right to exclude people from Christian ministry on the basis of their gender, ethnicity, or economic status.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

female preacher.
What are you opinions on this for and against? should i reconsider my stance

I saw this quoted somewhere.

(1 Corinthians 14:34) the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

However, in the Law, it is quite clear that Miriam is regarded as an elder of the people along with Moses and Aaron.

In the above mentioned situation, it is one of the rare instances where God is actually present and enforcing what matters to Him.

 

[Clare73]

I belong to a church that accepts women in all levels of ordained and lay ministry.

Many books have been written on this subject, and I won't attempt to reproduce all their content here. But the main idea is this: It's true that there are some individual verses in the Epistles that seem to exclude women from full participation in the life of the church. But these verses have to be read together with the grand sweep of Jesus' and Paul's teachings. ,

No, Scripture is to be taken at its word, and there is no Scripture authorizing women to be pastors, rather it forbids women to have a position of teaching authority over men (as in pastorship).

They may serve in many other teaching positions, but not in a position of teaching authority (i.e., from the pulpit).

 

[Strong in Him]

No, Scripture is to be taken at its word, and there is no Scripture authorizing women to be pastors,

There is no Scripture forbidding them from being pastors either.

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers

This does not specify gender.

rather it forbids women to have a position of teaching authority over men (as in pastorship).

i) How does a teacher have authority over?
ii) if you want to take Scripture at its word you need to look at the Greek words used, rather than the English translation.
The phrase used means "usurp authority". It is not used anywhere else in Scripture and has the meaning of snatching away; violently or by force. How does a woman who teaches snatch authority away from men - especially if they agree to be taught by her?
iii) is pastorship defined as teaching - where does Scripture say that?

They may serve in many other teaching positions, but not in a position of teaching authority (i.e., from the pulpit).

Where is the word "pulpit" in Scripture?

 

[Clare73]

There is no Scripture forbidding them from being pastors either.

This does not specify gender.

Does every text contain the full teaching of a doctrine.

i) How does a teacher have authority over?
ii) if you want to take Scripture at its word you need to look at the Greek words used, rather than the English translation.
The phrase used means "usurp authority". It is not used anywhere else in Scripture and has the meaning of snatching away; violently or by force. How does a woman who teaches snatch authority away from men - especially if they agree to be taught by her?
iii) is pastorship defined as teaching - where does Scripture say that?

Where is the word "pulpit" in Scripture?

The NT pulpit is where teaching is given by authoritative pastorship.

I will not be defending the plain teaching of the text against your denial.

 

[Strong in Him]

Does every text contain the full teaching of a doctrine.

The gender of clergy is not doctrine, it is church practice.
If the "doctrine" was that women cannot be Pastors, ordained clergy or even lay preachers, I'd expect Scripture to say so and to be consistent - yes.

The NT pulpit is where teaching is given by authoritative pastorship.

Where does it say so in Scripture?

I will not be defending the plain teaching of the text against your denial.

You clearly can't answer my question, then.

If it was plain teaching, there would be no debates - and no female clergy, or preachers. Or are you suggesting that some Christian women deliberately disobey Scripture?

 

[Clare73]

The gender of clergy is not doctrine, it is church practice.
If the "doctrine" was that women cannot be Pastors, ordained clergy or even lay preachers, I'd expect Scripture to say so and to be consistent - yes.
Where does it say so in Scripture?
You clearly can't answer my question, then.
If it was plain teaching, there would be no debates

Au contraire. . .

What makes it not plain is man's natural objection to it

- and no female clergy, or preachers. Or are you suggesting that some Christian women deliberately disobey Scripture?

Are you saying no one sins deliberately?

 

[Strong in Him]

What makes it not plain is man's natural objection to it

Pointing out the facts - of the phrase "have authority over" - is not objecting.

Are you saying no one sins deliberately?

Women responding to God's call to preaching, or ordained ministry, is not sin.

 

[Clare73]

Pointing out the facts - of the phrase "have authority over" - is not objecting.

Women responding to God's call to preaching, or ordained ministry, is not sin.

That's between them and God.

 

[jas3]

Women responding to God's call to preaching, or ordained ministry, is not sin.

There is no such call from God.

 

[Clare73]

There is no such call from God.

The NT would agree with that.

 

[Strong in Him]

That's between them and God.

Exactly. So it's not for you to say that they are sinning, disobeying the word or anything else.

Of course you can say "I'm sorry but I would not accept such a ministry because my understanding of God's word is ......." - that's fine. I have always said that if people sincerely believe that Scripture teaches that women cannot preach, they have to stick with, and obey, that.
But to dismiss those who disagree with you as being disobedient, is quite different.

 

[Strong in Him]

There is no such call from God.

There is, because I, and hundreds of others, have received it.

 

[jas3]

The NT would agree with that.

Indeed, it's about as clear on women's ordination as it is on homosexuality, and in fact there's significant overlap in the groups that promote each. The fact that one is considered acceptable to promote on a Christian forum while the other isn't is purely the product of the one's widespread acceptance in mainline Protestantism predating the internet by a few decades. Reading those who were around when it was still a "fashionable new idea" among theological liberals shows just as strong condemnation of "priestesses" as we have today of "gay marriage"; C. S. Lewis in his essay Priestesses in the Church? doesn't mince words about whether he considers Christianity compatible with ordained women.

 

[Jeff Carr]

Where would we be if it wasn't for women on the mission field? They out number men 3 to 1. Look at the fruit of their ministry, obviously blessed by God.

 

[Strong in Him]

Indeed, it's about as clear on women's ordination

It doesn't mention women's ordination - nor, in fact, men's.

 

[Clare73]

Exactly. So it's not for you to say that they are sinning, disobeying the word or anything else.

It is for me to say it is forbidden in the NT.

Disobedience to it is between God and the person.

Of course you can say "I'm sorry but I would not accept such a ministry because my understanding of God's word is ......." - that's fine. I have always said that if people sincerely believe that Scripture teaches that women cannot preach, they have to stick with, and obey, that.
But to dismiss those who disagree with you as being disobedient, is quite different.

We are liable for obedience to the plain word of God.

 

[Strong in Him]

It is for me to say it is forbidden in the NT.

It's not.
Otherwise God wouldn't call them; he would be going against his own word.