fellowship...are we doing it wrong?

[S.O.J.I.A.]

what does the bible say about our social interaction? we are to encourage each other to do good works in Christ(hebrews 10:24-25) we are to take on the hardships of our brothers and sisters in the LORD in helping them to overcome(galatians 6:1-2) we are to make ourselves vulnerable in revealing our spiritual shortcomings to our brothers and sisters in Christ in order to battle sin(james 5:16) we are to share our resources with the brethren when they are in need(acts 2:44-45, hebrews 13:15-16, 1 timothy 6:17-18).

I honestly think this is a huge blind spot within the Body of Christ for a few reasons.

cliques form within the church. you got the college people, the couples, the families, the elders, the theologians, the professors, gamers, the sports folk, etc. this shouldn't happen. it means we're not actually connecting with each on anything but superficiality.

conversations are superficial. no one actually knows each other. doing the things listed in scripture forces us to be transparent and vulnerable. we don't seem to want to go deeper with each other in conversation beyond current events, our weekly activities, and maybe a theological discussion.

we're actually very self centered socially. we only want to be around people who are like us. we seek out our personality clones. we don't really know how to or are not interested in being around someone who is different from us.

we don't value the social common denominator that we have in Christ. we value commonality in hobbies and interests more than we do our commonality in the Faith. while there's nothing wrong with seeking and being around people who have common interests and hobbies, we should not exclude other believers socially because they don't have these same interests and hobbies. we as believers should connect socially on the most common denominator which is our life in Christ.

This is an area where I believe much improvement is needed.


your thoughts?

 

[historyincognito]

Yes I agree

 

[faroukfarouk]

Acts 2.41-42 is a good reference passage re. fellowship activities; also, John's First Epistle, with its references to fellowship and walking in the light.

 

[Zurückschlagen]

Hallo!

You said:

we're actually very self centered socially. we only want to be around people who are like us. we seek out our personality clones. we don't really know how to or are not interested in being around someone who is different from us.

This is not necessarily true for all volk on planet Earth.
What I mean is, me personally, I believe that God gave us different gifts, different talents. For a reason. What is the point of people who are the same? For example, if I were to go on the Battlefield, why would I need only Marines and Soldiers, when there's no Medic available? What is the point, right? Just an example.

I split people into two groups.

Bad people / Good people

I could describe Bad people in many different ways but i'd take some time.

In my humble opinion, I think that people who seek for the same copies of them are the people who have problems to solve. A lot of problems to solve! Problems with insecurities and fears. We fear different. The same way all the Zebras hate the all White Zebra. And they will snap and attack it right away.

We're made to be smarter than Zebras. Haha, right?

But good point anyways. Point made! Most people are like that.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

what does the bible say about our social interaction? we are to encourage each other to do good works in Christ(hebrews 10:24-25) we are to take on the hardships of our brothers and sisters in the LORD in helping them to overcome(galatians 6:1-2) we are to make ourselves vulnerable in revealing our spiritual shortcomings to our brothers and sisters in Christ in order to battle sin(james 5:16) we are to share our resources with the brethren when they are in need(acts 2:44-45, hebrews 13:15-16, 1 timothy 6:17-18).

I honestly think this is huge blind spot within the Body of Christ for a few reasons.

cliques form within the church. you got the college people, the couples, the families, the elders, the theologians, the professors, gamers, the sports folk, etc. this shouldn't happen. it means we're not actually connecting with each on anything but superficiality.

conversations are superficial. no one actually knows each other. doing the things listed in scripture forces us to be transparent and vulnerable. we don't seem to want to go deeper with each other in conversation beyond current events, our weekly activities, and maybe a theological discussion.

we're actually very self centered socially. we only want to be around people who are like us. we seek out our personality clones. we don't really know how to or are not interested in being around someone who is different from us.

we don't value the social common denominator that we have in Christ. we value commonality in hobbies and interests more than we do our commonality in the Faith. while there's nothing wrong with seeking and being around people who have common interests and hobbies, we should not exclude other believers socially because they don't have these same interests and hobbies. we as believers should connect socially on the most common denominator which is our life in Christ.

This is an area where I believe much improvement is needed.


your thoughts?

We're to bear one another's burdens ... always grateful to Christ for bearing our burdens and that He made it law for us to do so with one another.
Galatians 6:1-2
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[Greg J.]

What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. (1 Corinthians 14:26, 1984 NIV)

There are actually a fair number of churches that have recognized how far typical church is from Biblical church. Unfortunately, they tend to have objectified the issue. To skip the issue altogether, hunt for a very small church with a formally trained pastor who has a heart of love and has been pastoring for 15+ years. You'd probably have to find them through word of mouth.

 

[dhh712]

what does the bible say about our social interaction? we are to encourage each other to do good works in Christ(hebrews 10:24-25) we are to take on the hardships of our brothers and sisters in the LORD in helping them to overcome(galatians 6:1-2) we are to make ourselves vulnerable in revealing our spiritual shortcomings to our brothers and sisters in Christ in order to battle sin(james 5:16) we are to share our resources with the brethren when they are in need(acts 2:44-45, hebrews 13:15-16, 1 timothy 6:17-18).

I honestly think this is a huge blind spot within the Body of Christ for a few reasons.

cliques form within the church. you got the college people, the couples, the families, the elders, the theologians, the professors, gamers, the sports folk, etc. this shouldn't happen. it means we're not actually connecting with each on anything but superficiality.

conversations are superficial. no one actually knows each other. doing the things listed in scripture forces us to be transparent and vulnerable. we don't seem to want to go deeper with each other in conversation beyond current events, our weekly activities, and maybe a theological discussion.

we're actually very self centered socially. we only want to be around people who are like us. we seek out our personality clones. we don't really know how to or are not interested in being around someone who is different from us.

we don't value the social common denominator that we have in Christ. we value commonality in hobbies and interests more than we do our commonality in the Faith. while there's nothing wrong with seeking and being around people who have common interests and hobbies, we should not exclude other believers socially because they don't have these same interests and hobbies. we as believers should connect socially on the most common denominator which is our life in Christ.

This is an area where I believe much improvement is needed.


your thoughts?

Yes, I agree. When I went to church, I thought fellowshipping involved discussing the wonderful things God has done in your life and the things you're struggling with and things you can do to reach out to others. Boy, was I wrong! After church, we just hang around and discuss very superficial things. I'm not a conversation starter, so I'd be very awkward in starting up a serious godly conversation since I don't start any conversations anyway. I'm a responder, not a director in conversation (and often have a speech impediment that comes up more when I'm nervous, so it'd probably show up then if I try to start a conversation like that when I feel very awkward about it).

Anyway, it's really disappointing. The only thing that got kind of close to the fellowship I was expecting was when I was in a church plant at someone's house in the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America and there was about like 12 members including the children. We had some good discussions then.

 

[1watchman]

For all true saints of God it should always be: Bible Only, and that in all references ---fellowship with others, conversation, studies; and as "all the counsel of God" and "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", as God enjoins seekers after the way and mind of God for us.

 

[TurtleAnne]

I don't necessarily believe that everyone who shows up to church is a disciple of Christ, so my expectations are pretty low. The spirit-filled people seem to pop right on out and are a pleasure to work with in helping others. I am polite to everybody, but with the cliquish people with their noses upturned, so to speak, I just keep in mind what Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Which also comes with the reminder that we are all sinners and none of us are perfect. So I just remind myself that I surely have my own issues, and even the people who seem snobby need to be there along with everyone else.

I will admit that I have been poor (by western world standards) for so many years now, in addition to troubled mentally (PTSD) and being socially awkward in general, that when I finish my degree and am able to be self-sustained in employment again, it is going to feel a little weird. It has been somewhat easy for me to get a good read on people over the years, because there are those who judge me immediately by my appearance and mannerisms, and those who are genuinely friendly with me regardless. It has made it easier to identify beautiful souls over the years, and to know they exist and to appreciate them.

Even recently when I was participating in a charity event at the church I joined a little while back, there were two people in the congregation who really stood out from the others, and I noticed it was not just in their attitude towards me, but also carried over in their attitude towards the homeless people we were serving. The others spoke of themselves highly, as far as how good they were, but kept to themselves, ignoring both me even when I stood there facing them trying to be involved with the work, they made no room for me and would not speak to me, and also the homeless people. It was like they were just using the homeless people as "good works" fodder. Compared to the other two who actually got to know the homeless and treated them as fellow human beings.

So I don't expect a church to be full of disciples of Christ, but I pay close attention to people so I can appreciate those who are spirit-filled and try to learn from their example. There are nearly always at least a few.

 

[1watchman]

Good thoughts, Turtle! I believe that a scriptural church place should have two aspects: one as a place at set times for the saints of God to worship (in the scriptural way) and to have Bible studies for deeper understandings and faith); and then a time set to invite and encourage the public in for Gospel meetings, testimonies of faith by the "born again" believers, and preaching of the love of God to all and the way of salvation. In all aspects it should be showing God's love to all present, for sure.

 

[Baileyscave]

I believe what you are saying is so true. It would be nice to find a church or a group of believers to engage with in deeper, more spiritual discussions. Things like struggles, understanding passages, applying it to real world...but it seems everyone so interested in "What you do for a living? Do you have kids?, etc" Instead of discussing things like...prayers, struggles with sin, trying to appreciate the small things God gives us...just being "real"

I understand you need to get past the small/superficial things, to then get to the real things, especially when you are bad at conversation like I am.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I believe what you are saying is so true. It would be nice to find a church or a group of believers to engage with in deeper, more spiritual discussions. Things like struggles, understanding passages, applying it to real world...but it seems everyone so interested in "What you do for a living? Do you have kids?, etc" Instead of discussing things like...prayers, struggles with sin, trying to appreciate the small things God gives us...just being "real"

I understand you need to get past the small/superficial things, to then get to the real things, especially when you are bad at conversation like I am.

I think the theme of fellowship in John's First Epistle makes an excellent read and a good study!

 

[faroukfarouk]

For all true saints of God it should always be: Bible Only, and that in all references ---fellowship with others, conversation, studies; and as "all the counsel of God" and "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", as God enjoins seekers after the way and mind of God for us.

Psalm 119.105; John 17.17.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I understand you need to get past the small/superficial things, to then get to the real things.

absolutely, you do have to start there. the problem is we never get passed that. it's something we all need to work on.

 

[DawnInVirginia]

what does the bible say about our social interaction? we are to encourage each other to do good works in Christ(hebrews 10:24-25) we are to take on the hardships of our brothers and sisters in the LORD in helping them to overcome(galatians 6:1-2) we are to make ourselves vulnerable in revealing our spiritual shortcomings to our brothers and sisters in Christ in order to battle sin(james 5:16) we are to share our resources with the brethren when they are in need(acts 2:44-45, hebrews 13:15-16, 1 timothy 6:17-18).

I honestly think this is a huge blind spot within the Body of Christ for a few reasons.

cliques form within the church. you got the college people, the couples, the families, the elders, the theologians, the professors, gamers, the sports folk, etc. this shouldn't happen. it means we're not actually connecting with each on anything but superficiality.

conversations are superficial. no one actually knows each other. doing the things listed in scripture forces us to be transparent and vulnerable. we don't seem to want to go deeper with each other in conversation beyond current events, our weekly activities, and maybe a theological discussion.

we're actually very self centered socially. we only want to be around people who are like us. we seek out our personality clones. we don't really know how to or are not interested in being around someone who is different from us.

we don't value the social common denominator that we have in Christ. we value commonality in hobbies and interests more than we do our commonality in the Faith. while there's nothing wrong with seeking and being around people who have common interests and hobbies, we should not exclude other believers socially because they don't have these same interests and hobbies. we as believers should connect socially on the most common denominator which is our life in Christ.

This is an area where I believe much improvement is needed.


your thoughts?

I understand your point and agree with parts of it. From my perspective, as a life long, happy introvert who really likes people....up to a point, I find my free time now as a semi-empty nester is as limited as when my children are small. I'm totally comfortable doing things alone or being alone, but know there comes a times, usually after two or three days, I need face time with people. When I do socialize, it's through an activity such as volunteering where I have something in common with the people there, or through a Bible study or activity through my church. I'm slow to warm up to people, and some find me aloof, which I'm not; just reserved until I get to know people, and even then, I'm slooooow to open up to them (trust issues from past hurts).

I will say that at 50 something years old, it took me a long time to learn to just keep practicing Christians in my circle of friends, but invited them in after I could see what kind of fruit they would produce. Not all Christians are equal. The Christians I allowed in could hold me accountable, if I needed it and I didn't take offense because I knew it came from a place of love and they feel the same way.

Are we self-centered as a society? Perhaps, but everyone who walks this earth is self centered to one degree or another. Even Mother Theresa, bless her soul, was self centered because she lived only to serve, and that was her focus in life. Serving God brought HER joy.

Is it bad to what only people who are like us around us? I don't think so. I'm too old and cranky to have to deal with someone who expects me to apologize for what I have, or who I am, where I live, how I was raised, that I ask for paper over plastic at the market or chastises me over the "carbon footprint".

I LOVE getting to know people of different ages, ethnic backgrounds, genders, and religions, but my inner circle is made up of women much like myself. Girls who have dealt with the wayward child, financial burdens, health scares, caring for and then burying aging parents, seeing the person you married decades before age before your eyes and knowing you better keep yourself in tip top shape because his health is fading, and he needs you to there to care for him.

Please take heart, the lack of rapid close relationships with those you encounter has little to do with you. Time is finite, people use their time wisely or are cautious of new people, because of past disappointments. Find a good church that offers a variety of studies and social activities, volunteer and let the relationships of those you meet evolve.

Good luck!

 

[Christsfreeservant]

what does the bible say about our social interaction? we are to encourage each other to do good works in Christ(hebrews 10:24-25) we are to take on the hardships of our brothers and sisters in the LORD in helping them to overcome(galatians 6:1-2) we are to make ourselves vulnerable in revealing our spiritual shortcomings to our brothers and sisters in Christ in order to battle sin(james 5:16) we are to share our resources with the brethren when they are in need(acts 2:44-45, hebrews 13:15-16, 1 timothy 6:17-18).

I honestly think this is a huge blind spot within the Body of Christ for a few reasons.

cliques form within the church. you got the college people, the couples, the families, the elders, the theologians, the professors, gamers, the sports folk, etc. this shouldn't happen. it means we're not actually connecting with each on anything but superficiality.

conversations are superficial. no one actually knows each other. doing the things listed in scripture forces us to be transparent and vulnerable. we don't seem to want to go deeper with each other in conversation beyond current events, our weekly activities, and maybe a theological discussion.

we're actually very self centered socially. we only want to be around people who are like us. we seek out our personality clones. we don't really know how to or are not interested in being around someone who is different from us.

we don't value the social common denominator that we have in Christ. we value commonality in hobbies and interests more than we do our commonality in the Faith. while there's nothing wrong with seeking and being around people who have common interests and hobbies, we should not exclude other believers socially because they don't have these same interests and hobbies. we as believers should connect socially on the most common denominator which is our life in Christ.

This is an area where I believe much improvement is needed.


your thoughts?

From my experience, I believe most Christians, at least in America, don't understand the biblical concept of Christian fellowship, but rather what they were taught by example.

In most institutional churches I had attended over the years, a "fellowship hall" is a place where they have parties, dinners, plays, and games, etc. And, if you mention the word "fellowship," it is usually understood that you are speaking of a dinner, a party, or some kind of social activity. God doesn't have to be a part of it at all for them to call it a "church fellowship."

We usually joined a Sunday school class, which have been replaced now mostly by something they call "small groups" or "life groups." When the SS Class had fellowships, it was usually a party or a meal, and the conversations usually revolved around everything worldly, but hardly ever was Jesus mentioned. At one such fellowship some of the men were bragging on how they were able to get out of speeding tickets, because they knew someone, and speeding was laughed about, as though everyone does it. Things are much worse now, I am sure, for this was maybe 20 years ago.

If you do try to have biblical fellowship with people, I have found, at least in my experience, that most people don't even know what that is or how to do it, and, in fact, they feel uncomfortable doing what those scriptures said we should do. They feel uncomfortable talking about Jesus, in many cases, unless they are in a Bible study or worship service. It just seems unnatural to them, but they love to talk about sports, movies, TV shows, politics, the news, their possessions, etc.

So, we need genuine Christian fellowship for sure. I know I do. But, it is rare to find. And, if you do what those scriptures say, often people don't know what to do with you or what to think about you, and so they think you are weird or whatever. It is just not comfortable for them, because it is not natural for them. They weren't taught it, so they don't know what to do with it. To them, fellowship is a church social.

 

[1watchman]

Yes, "church fellowship" is most often viewed as a happy time of fun and activities, but the saints of God are enjoined to be "of one mind" and "one accord" in Christian love and the things of God, and not as the world. One can read more on this at the biblecounsel.net web site, which I find sets forth what God intends for His testimony in the world. Let us put God first in ALL things!

 

[brinny]

Amen.

Great thread!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The reason we are to bear each others burdens is that when Christ is lifted up the body is lifted also. I think that's an excellent example of the quickening of the Spirit in putting immortality upon the mortal. It's only thru the Holy Spirit who is the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead ... if He dwell in you.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I believe what you are saying is so true. It would be nice to find a church or a group of believers to engage with in deeper, more spiritual discussions. Things like struggles, understanding passages, applying it to real world...but it seems everyone so interested in "What you do for a living? Do you have kids?, etc" Instead of discussing things like...prayers, struggles with sin, trying to appreciate the small things God gives us...just being "real"

I agree with everyone here on this concept...but really I have to know someone well to spill inner secret struggles. With that kind of reveal there has to be a trust in place which only comes from already knowing them. Sadly churches are filled with flawed people who gossip, lack compassion and empathy, or have their own motivations. We are all there to improve ourselves and worship -- this can take baby steps sometimes.