Feed the poor, or treat drug addicts?

OldWiseGuy

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Congress is debating the appropriation of $45Billion to treat opioid addiction, while at the same time debating cutting food stamp money for the poor. Is this moral?
 

yeshuaslavejeff

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Congress is debating the appropriation of $45Billion to treat opioid addiction, while at the same time debating cutting food stamp money for the poor. Is this moral?
Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat ...
biblehub.com/matthew/25-35.htm - Cached - Similar
For I was hungry, and you(individually) fed me. I was thirsty, and you(individually) gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you(individually) invited me into your home. English Standard Version
Matthew 25:36 - ‎Matthew 25:34 - ‎Matthew 25:35 NIV - ‎Matthew 25:35 NLT
 
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Congress is debating the appropriation of $45Billion to treat opioid addiction, while at the same time debating cutting food stamp money for the poor. Is this moral?
I will say that drugs ( particularly Opooids are a major issue at the moment so they need to do something about that. As for food stamps I would be in favor of them tightening up what may be purchased.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat ...
biblehub.com/matthew/25-35.htm - Cached - Similar
For I was hungry, and you(individually) fed me. I was thirsty, and you(individually) gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you(individually) invited me into your home. English Standard Version
Matthew 25:36 - ‎Matthew 25:34 - ‎Matthew 25:35 NIV - ‎Matthew 25:35 NLT

We feed the hungry now through tax funded programs, various charities, and food banks, although I did take a beggar to a restaurant once and paid for his meal. He really wanted money for booze but I forced him to eat a good meal, then I gave him a couple of dollars and said, "Have a beer on me". True story.
 
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RDKirk

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Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat ...
biblehub.com/matthew/25-35.htm - Cached - Similar
For I was hungry, and you(individually) fed me. I was thirsty, and you(individually) gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you(individually) invited me into your home. English Standard Version
Matthew 25:36 - ‎Matthew 25:34 - ‎Matthew 25:35 NIV - ‎Matthew 25:35 NLT

Actually, the entire sense of that passage is in the plural, but it is directed to His followers--explicitly from verse 33--not to the Roman Empire.
 
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SkyWriting

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Congress is debating the appropriation of $45Billion to treat opioid addiction, while at the same time debating cutting food stamp money for the poor. Is this moral?

Food support should be a job.
People like to be useful.
 
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RDKirk

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Congress is debating the appropriation of $45Billion to treat opioid addiction, while at the same time debating cutting food stamp money for the poor. Is this moral?

You do realize that "old wise guys" are the main group of opiod addicts, right??
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I will say that drugs ( particularly Opooids are a major issue at the moment so they need to do something about that. As for food stamps I would be in favor of them tightening up what may be purchased.

We had a huge problem with wild geese taking over our city parks. No one wanted to just kill them (although that is what eventually happened). I suggested walking up to the flock in broad daylight and shooting a couple of them each day until they leave, which they would do. Same with these druggies. Let a few of them die and maybe the rest will get the message. It would save more lives in the long run. Also impose the death penalty on any dealer whose buyer dies from an overdose. It's time to take this problem seriously instead of making a tax funded industry out of it.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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You do realize that "old wise guys" are the main group of opiod addicts, right??

Old wise guys get old because we are wise enough to avoid dangerous behaviors.
 
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We had a huge problem with wild geese taking over our city parks. No one wanted to just kill them (although that is what eventually happened). I suggested walking up to the flock in broad daylight and shooting a couple of them each day until they leave, which they would do. Same with these druggies. Let a few of them die and maybe the rest will get the message. It would save more lives in the long run. Also impose the death penalty on any dealer whose buyer dies from an overdose. It's time to take this problem seriously instead of making a tax funded industry out of it.
If we imposed the death penalty on dealers one the punishment would not fit the crime ( for the record I oppose the death penalty, but even if I did not under the law the punishment would not fit the crime. Moreover, it would be hard if not impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt who caused the overdose ( which of course is the standard to be found guilty of any crime.
 
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com7fy8

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Well . . . if it is your son or daughter who is the opioid addict > this might effect what you consider to be moral.

This is not only about the person hopefully being helped, but the family members and friends and church members who so care about the addicted person.

And who has the better chance of living, in spite of one's problem? > the addict or the child who is short on food? I think this might also have somewhat to do with it.

And we need to not be like the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14) at the front of the church looking down on the disgusting sinner at the back of the church. Or else, we are letting the evil of drug addiction feed our addiction to self-righteous conceit, perhaps.

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). And Jesus on the cross suffered and died like He did, with hope for any evil person, at all. So, we are wise to have hope for any evil person, of how God is able . . . easily able.

Someone could argue, though, at a moral level, "But it's the addict's own fault, and may be those family members were at fault for not bringing the addict up right. So, now if the child dies they are reaping what they started. But a poor child is hungry by no fault of his or her own."

"But are you ok with culling the population, by letting the addicts die?"

"And then, if we try to rescue all the addicts, what money will be left for public education and medical treatment including for people who can't help being sick and disabled . . . and what about funds for veterans after they have made their sacrifices?"

"Some addicts are hooked because of how they have been traumatized while sacrificing all they have for our country. So, why would you abandon them now?"

"Peer pressure now might lean more to pushing people to drugs, than to nicotine. If you yourself had been brought up during this culture, could you now be hooked on drugs instead of nicotine? What about nicotine addicts, then? Should we also stop treating people whose medical problems are because of nicotine abuse????"

"And what about food abusers? Should we stop treating people who are costing so much for medical conditions resulting from food abuse?"

"We all have sinned; it could have been you who gave in to your weakness in a different way than you have. Would you want God to have mercy on you?"

We all have been qualified for the welfare of God's mercy :)
 
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Well . . . if it is your son or daughter who is the opioid addict > this might effect what you consider to be moral.

This is not only about the person hopefully being helped, but the family members and friends and church members who so care about the addicted person.

And who has the better chance of living, in spite of one's problem? > the addict or the child who is short on food? I think this might also have somewhat to do with it.

And we need to not be like the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14) at the front of the church looking down on the disgusting sinner at the back of the church. Or else, we are letting the evil of drug addiction feed our addiction to self-righteous conceit, perhaps.

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). And Jesus on the cross suffered and died like He did, with hope for any evil person, at all. So, we are wise to have hope for any evil person, of how God is able . . . easily able.

Someone could argue, though, at a moral level, "But it's the addict's own fault, and may be those family members were at fault for not bringing the addict up right. So, now if the child dies they are reaping what they started. But a poor child is hungry by no fault of his or her own."

"But are you ok with culling the population, by letting the addicts die?"

"And then, if we try to rescue all the addicts, what money will be left for public education and medical treatment including for people who can't help being sick and disabled . . . and what about funds for veterans after they have made their sacrifices?"

"Some addicts are hooked because of how they have been traumatized while sacrificing all they have for our country. So, why would you abandon them now?"

"Peer pressure now might lean more to pushing people to drugs, than to nicotine. If you yourself had been brought up during this culture, could you now be hooked on drugs instead of nicotine? What about nicotine addicts, then? Should we also stop treating people whose medical problems are because of nicotine abuse????"

"And what about food abusers? Should we stop treating people who are costing so much for medical conditions resulting from food abuse?"

"We all have sinned; it could have been you who gave in to your weakness in a different way than you have. Would you want God to have mercy on you?"

We all have been qualified for the welfare of God's mercy :)
Should drug addicts by entitled to the same assistance as others particularly if those drugs did not start out as a need ( as is often the case with this thread one thing that makes this addiction so hard.
 
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Hank77

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Actually, the entire sense of that passage is in the plural, but it is directed to His followers--explicitly from verse 33--not to the Roman Empire.
Was it directed only to His followers or to the nation of Israel?
I believe Jesus, as the Messiah, was always giving instructions to the nation, not just those who believed. If not the leaders of the nation had no reason to despise and fear Him.
 
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The problem with "letting them die" for opioids addicts, aside from being monstrous, is that it doesn't work. Opioids are prescribed by doctors, which is how most people get hooked. And they get prescribed for acute, chronic pain. With that kind of pain they won't stop using. It doesn't matter if they might die, the pain is that overwhelming.

And of course I object to death penalty for dealers for the same reason I object to the death penalty in general. The state must act as an impartial arbiter and as such must try to strive for justice. Never vengeance. If it does it loses its credibility as an impartial arbiter.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Well . . . if it is your son or daughter who is the opioid addict > this might effect what you consider to be moral.

This is not only about the person hopefully being helped, but the family members and friends and church members who so care about the addicted person.

And who has the better chance of living, in spite of one's problem? > the addict or the child who is short on food? I think this might also have somewhat to do with it.

And we need to not be like the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14) at the front of the church looking down on the disgusting sinner at the back of the church. Or else, we are letting the evil of drug addiction feed our addiction to self-righteous conceit, perhaps.

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). And Jesus on the cross suffered and died like He did, with hope for any evil person, at all. So, we are wise to have hope for any evil person, of how God is able . . . easily able.

Someone could argue, though, at a moral level, "But it's the addict's own fault, and may be those family members were at fault for not bringing the addict up right. So, now if the child dies they are reaping what they started. But a poor child is hungry by no fault of his or her own."

"But are you ok with culling the population, by letting the addicts die?"

"And then, if we try to rescue all the addicts, what money will be left for public education and medical treatment including for people who can't help being sick and disabled . . . and what about funds for veterans after they have made their sacrifices?"

"Some addicts are hooked because of how they have been traumatized while sacrificing all they have for our country. So, why would you abandon them now?"

"Peer pressure now might lean more to pushing people to drugs, than to nicotine. If you yourself had been brought up during this culture, could you now be hooked on drugs instead of nicotine? What about nicotine addicts, then? Should we also stop treating people whose medical problems are because of nicotine abuse????"

"And what about food abusers? Should we stop treating people who are costing so much for medical conditions resulting from food abuse?"

"We all have sinned; it could have been you who gave in to your weakness in a different way than you have. Would you want God to have mercy on you?"

We all have been qualified for the welfare of God's mercy :)

Many nations are not only overwhelmed by these problems but they are also losing the capacity for compassion because of it. We can treat a few addicts but the tsunami that's coming is beyond the capacity to deal with, and drastic measures are needed. Shoot a few of them until they all fly away (geese that is). ;)
 
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com7fy8

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If we imposed the death penalty on dealers

it would be hard if not impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt who caused the overdose
I suppose you could define drug dealing as conspiracy to commit murder; then, if anyone chose to deal drugs it would be understood that the person intended to commit murder. "Do not deal drugs unless you intend to murder people. Your dealing will be legally considered a statement that you intend to kill people."

Also, drug dealing is helping to destroy a nation's culture and security. So, you could define drug dealing as assisting terrorism to bring down a country. And make it clear > "Do not deal or use drugs unless you intend to help to destroy your country."

Possibly, after one's first offense, you can have a talk with that dealer or doer in such terms and make the person write out an explanation of what has been explained to him or her, and then warn the person to expect to be treated differently if the person ever does any more dealing or using.

But there are parents who have not brought up their children with good example (1 Peter 5:3, Philippians 2:13-16, Colossians 3:19); and so, their children do not know how to love and how to feel for others. So, how guilty are parents, because of their bad example helping to make their children weak so they could give in to addiction and dealing?????

If parents have lived selfishly, then, have they not also been helping to bring down their country, and therefore assist terrorism??????

This could be our real main national security problem > how ones do not know how to love. In the weakness of selfish loving, ones can give in to seeking pleasure so they can feel something nicer than their own deep mess of sin. Drug addicts are not the only ones with this problem, and dealers are not the only ones who try to make money off of people's weakness for pleasure.

So, just changing and reforming things and punishing and controlling only certain wrong people is not going to solve the problem.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The problem with "letting them die" for opioids addicts, aside from being monstrous, is that it doesn't work. Opioids are prescribed by doctors, which is how most people get hooked. And they get prescribed for acute, chronic pain. With that kind of pain they won't stop using. It doesn't matter if they might die, the pain is that overwhelming.

And of course I object to death penalty for dealers for the same reason I object to the death penalty in general. The state must act as an impartial arbiter and as such must try to strive for justice. Never vengeance. If it does it loses its credibility as an impartial arbiter.

One of our problems is that while we are experiencing 'information overload' we really don't have much information with which to make good judgments. Examine each case of drug addiction back to the beginning and see where it started. Then project the individual case forward and see where it leads you. Then make your judgment.

We read all the time of drivers with multiple convictions for drunk driving, yet almost none of these offenders are prevented from driving while under revocation, and many eventually kill themselves or someone else. It's another national problem that our legal system can't seem to deal with although the solution is so simple; impound their vehicles and any other vehicle they are found using. After three strikes permanently revoke their driving privileges.

We don't have the knowledge or the resources to save and heal everyone that becomes addicted to drugs, regardless of the reason.
 
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